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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: heath on Sunday 18 January 26 05:47 GMT (UK)
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Looking for the marriage of Alexander Graham birth 1770 Kilninver and Kilmelford, Argyll, Scotland death 1863 Lochgilphead Argyll age stated as 86 and Ann Campbell birth ? death 1869 Island of Islay Garttoist Kilarrow Argyll age stated as 80. I have found 3 children to this couple Arthur which is a questionable name birth circa 1821, Duncan birth 1827 and Ann birth 1829. Both Duncan and Ann died young.
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Looks as if there was another son named Alexander, 3 years younger than Arthur.
See 1841 census
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1411d5f4040b9d6ef81fe9/alex-graham-1841-argyllshire-kilbrandon-kilchattn-1781-?locale=en
1861 census gives some different birth dates and places from your opening post.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a141a8ff4040b9d6e02e863/alexr-graham-1861-argyllshire-lochgilphead-1778-?locale=en
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Cannot see a marriage record for Alexander and Ann.
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Thank you for the census info. I haven't been able to find the births for For Arthur or the alexander you have found. Is there some records that have not been released? :)
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It is quite normal for Scottish baptism records from this time period to be incomplete - either never recorded, or the record now lost.
The son Duncan Graham born 1827 died 26 Feb 1855 in Kilbrandon and Kilchattan.
The son Arthur Graham born 1823 MARRIED 10 August 1870 in Glasgow. He married Ann Hunter.
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In the 1861 census - The grandson Alexander Graham born Glasgow 1848, might be the son of John Graham and Agnes Begg (married in 1847 Glasgow).
1851 census 31 Green Street, Calton, Lanarkshire
John Graham 29 born Argylleshire, Grocer
Agnes Graham 29 Wife born Glasgow
Alexander Graham 3 son born Glasgow
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Thank you. So do you think that there is another child John to Alexander and Ann? That would fit into the naming pattern of the family. :)
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Yes, I think John was a son. I can't see a death for him. Possibly died before civil registration in 1855.
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1861 census gives some different birth dates and places from your opening post.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a141a8ff4040b9d6e02e863/alexr-graham-1861-argyllshire-lochgilphead-1778-?locale=en
Lorn(e) is an area, not a parish. The parish of Kilninver and Kilmelfort is in Lorn(e), and Melford/Melfort is, not surprisingly, in the parish of Kilmelfort.
Is there some records that have not been released?
In practical terms, in relation to this specific query, and barring errors or omissions, no.
Basically, all the records held by Scotland's People, and all the records held by the Scottish Catholic archives, are available on the Scotland's People web site. There are some religious denominations who hold their own records and have not (yet?) agreed to make them available on the SP web site - for example the Scottish Episcopal Church, Methodist, Congregational, Baptist, Quakers, a few minor sects, and non-Christian religions.
However the Statistical Account of Kilninver and Kilmelfort https://stataccscot.ed.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Argyle/Kilninver%20and%20Kilmelfort does not mention any denomination other than the Church of Scotland being active in the parish, and the New Statistical Account says that there are a few Dissenters, but no chapel. So it would be fruitless to hope that a missing register is lurking somewhere.
The reasons why baptism and marriage records have not survived are mostly to do with omission, for example
- the parents neglected to get the child baptised
- the minister forgot to tell the session clerk
- the session clerk omitted to write the information in the register
I have read somewhere that 30% of baptisms are missing from the surviving records in the early 19th century. In my own tree I have 1055 people born in Scotland between 1820 and 1830; of these there are 262 for whom I have yet to find a baptism record. That's about one in four. And the further back you go, the more records are missing. Between 1770 and 1780, for example, a third of my baptisms are missing, and between 1720 and 1730 it's almost exactly half.
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thank you all for your wonderful answers. Looking for any more help that you can give me. :)
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Not sure what information you are looking for. Can you be more specific?
Your opening post only mentioned marriage.
Do you have the death certificates for Alexander Graham and Ann Campbell?
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Yes I do have the deaths of both Alexander and Ann Campbell. I think that you all have given me the info that I was looking for in the request of marriage etc of Alexander and Ann Campbell, and I thank you for that. :)
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Yes I do have the deaths of both Alexander and Ann Campbell.
Have you downloaded the actual death certificate? It will give you much more information than is on the index enrty. It should include names and occupation of parents of the deceased, etc, etc.
If you want to share that detail, I can look further.
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Ok thank you for that though.
Alexander Graham GRAHAM ALEXANDER 86 MCMILLAN M 26/12/1863 526 / 1 Lochgilphead Argyll. parents John Graham and Marjory (Mysie) McMillan
Ann Campbell Graham died 17 /09/1869 Island of Islay Garttoist Kilarrow Argyll parents unknown. I have not gone for the death certs.
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I’m sure you know there is a marriage record available for John Graham and Marjory McMillan in 1762, and baptism records for the first 4 of their children.
Your Alexander Graham, according to records, was born about 1778, so no record of his birth.
I don’t see the death for Ann Campbell in 1869. Are you sure about that?
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I am manly trying to work on the Graham line.
I found the death on a headstone. I don't no were the headstone is but guessing that Ann was the last to die it would be in that grave yard. If I can find out how to do a photo I could send you the photo of the headstone
I have got the birth for alexander from familysearch I don't always trust this site and have not found it on Scotland's people there is another child with the same date John
Name Graham no name at birth alexander ?
Sex Male
Father's Name John Graham
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Marjory McMillan
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 18 May 1770
Event Place Kilninver and Kilmelford, Argyll, Scotland
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Yes, please attach a photo of the headstone or the text from the headstone.
Scotlands People is where you should be looking
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
DEATH CERTIFICATE for Alexander Graham 1863 is available from Scotlands People.
It will tell you if his wife Ann was still living when he died.
Also the following marriage record -
MARRIAGE 04 April 1762 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
John GRAHAM to Marjory McMILLAN
Also the Baptisms of children:-
Archibald 08/12/1762 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
Duncan 03/03/1765 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
Marjory 12/07/1767 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
Un-named male 18/05/1770 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
I don’t believe the un-named male born 1770 will be your Alexander.
Birth year of Alexander Graham from records -----
1841 census (Ages were rounded in this census) – born abt 1781
1851 census – born abt 1779
1861 census – born abt 1778
1863 Death – born abt 1777
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The 10 August 1870 marriage certificate for Arthur Graham (Glasgow) to Ann Hunter, will tell you if his mother was deceased at that time, or still alive.
Available from Scotlands People.
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Ann Campbell Graham died 17 /09/1869 Island of Islay Garttoist Kilarrow Argyll parents unknown. I have not gone for the death certs.
The only death I can see for Ann CAMPBELL / Ann GRAHAM in 1869 Bowmore or Kilarrow was for someone aged 26. Mother’s name Carmichael.
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Ann Campbell Graham died 17 /09/1869 Island of Islay Garttoist Kilarrow Argyll parents unknown. I have not gone for the death certs.
The only death I can see for Ann CAMPBELL / Ann GRAHAM in 1869 Bowmore or Kilarrow was for someone aged 26. Mother’s name Carmichael.
You need to look at that certificate to check that her age has been correctly indexed. It it isn't, use the 'report error' tab to tell Scotland's People and get it corrected.
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I have not gone for the death certs.
You should do, because sometimes the name of the informant can be a useful clue.
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i would echo Forfarian's comments.
This would appear to be a transcription of the death in question from Familysearch. Here her age is given as 80 and her parents are shown as John Campbell and Mary Carmichael. Looking at Scotland's People it is probably the death showing in Tarbert RD (index has mmn as Campbell).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X95J-MP1L?lang=en
William
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thank you everyone. I will attempt to correct the death of Ann Campbell Graham with Scotland's p. I have checked the info with familysearch and it matches up with the headstone.
I have a copy of the marriage cert for MARRIAGE 04 April 1762 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
John GRAHAM to Marjory McMILLAN and have found Duncan is the father of John Graham. This is the only info I have on this couple. This is their children
GRAHAM JOHN GRAHAM/MARJORY MCMILLAN FR53 (FR53) M 18/05/1770 524/10 49 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
GRAHAM MARJORY JOHN GRAHAM/MARJORY MACMILLAN FR41 (FR41) F 12/07/1767 524/10 37 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
GRAHAM ARCHIBALD JOHN GRAHAM/MARJORY MCMILLAN FR26 (FR26) M 08/12/1762 524/10 22 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
Name Graham no name at birth
Sex Male
Father's Name John Graham
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Marjory McMillan
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 18 May 1770
Event Place Kilninver and Kilmelford, Argyll, Scotland
People are thinking that this is not Alexander. But there appears to be a big gap from 1870 to 1877?
GRAHAM DUNCAN JOHN GRAHAM/MARJORY MCMILLAN FR33 (FR33) 0 03/03/1765 524/10 29 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
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People are thinking that this is not Alexander. But there appears to be a big gap from 1870 to 1877?
Not necessarily a gap.
It is just that the last recorded baptism for that couple was in 1870.
It is quite possible there were other children, who like Alexander, do not have birth / baptism records.
Unless Marjory died early, or was quite old when she married, one would normally expect a woman to have children across a 15-20 year period. So it is possible that during the 1770s there were another 4 children (including Alexander), whose records no longer exist.
Having a look at the 1841 census for Argyllshire, there are quite a number of very elderly people with the Graham surname that could be from the same family line.
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MARRIAGE Banns
17 Feb. 1781 (?) Craignish, Argyll.
4 March 1780 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
John CAMPBELL and Mary CARMICHAEL
Baptisms / births of children
Mary CAMPBELL 06/01/1783 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
Ann CAMPBELL 12/09/1784 Kilninver and Kilmelfort
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thank you and I have contacted Scotland's p and they will amended the death of Ann Campbell Graham.
I have had a look on Ancestry and there is a death for a John Graham in Kingston Jamaica. 1799. did people in those days travel to Jamaica from Argyll and what would they being there for ? He would have had to have left in the late 1790's if the last child was born in 1777.
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Lots of Scots and English in Jamaica - plantation owners, merchants, and labourers / managers for other Scots.
John Graham is a very common Scottish name, so I would tread carefully and avoid jumping to conclusions.
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Yes you are right.