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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: TomGad on Thursday 15 January 26 16:42 GMT (UK)
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I am currently researching my mother’s side of the family at the moment. I have hit a bit of a brick wall however. My 3rd Great Grandfather William George Cobb was born in a place called Ham in Surrey on October 25th 1877 (birth from 1939 Census).
I cannot however find his birth in the GRO. Nor can I find any records on Ancestry. On his marriage certificate to his wife Elizabeth Grace Hall his father is simply stated as “William Cobb”. In the 1881 and 1891 Census’ William George Cobb is staying with his grandparents George and Elizabeth Cobb. In 1881 listed as Willie Cobb as Rokemarsh and in 1891 as William Cobb. Still in Roke. If his family was around the Benson/Roke Area then why was he born in Surrey? Who is this “William” Cobb of a father? Can anybody help me with this one?
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Just a quick observation - in the 1911 census both William George and his wife Elizabeth Grace have recorded their birthplace as Unknown.
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UPDATE: William’s father is Unknown and he actually gets his surname from his mother Harriet Ann Cobb, Daughter of George Cobb and Elizabeth Champion of Rokemarsh.
Between 1877 and 1884 Harriet had 3 children all without the father listed. Her first child being William George in Ham in 1877. Her second child Annie Cobb being born in Union Workhouse, Kingston in 1879 and finally by 1884 she is back in Benson with the birth of Harry Cobb. The infant child of Harriet Harry died at 8 Weeks Old of an Illness I can’t actually read on the certificate.
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In all census records Harriet is working as a domestic servant in various households. It seems she moved around a bit for work, which would explain why her illegitimate children were born in various places.
In 1894 there was a baptism in Benson, Oxfordshire for Lillian Annie Cobb born 1879
Mother – Harriet Cobb (now Harris) Roke Marsh
Harriet had 2 children with James Harris.
I can’t see that she was ever married to him.
Edith Maud HARRIS born 10 Dec. 1893; baptised 10 Mar. 1895 Benson, Oxfordshire
Parents – James and Harriet Harris, Roke March, bricklayer
HARRIS, EDITH MAUD Mother- COBB
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in WALLINGFORD Volume 02C Page 325
James Henry HARRIS born 1896
HARRIS, JAMES HENRY Mother - COBB
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in WALLINGFORD Volume 02C Page 321
In 1898 Harriett Cobb married widower, John Rowland. He died in 1903.
By 1911 (Devon) census Harriet is (“married under 1 yr) to John Grigg.
Marriage Bideford Dec 1910 5b 1045
Harriett Rowland to John Grigg
She died in 1937 as Harriett Grigg in Devon.
It is worth noting that Harriet's various "husbands" were very much older than she was.
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In addition to Neale1961 information;
I can find about 10 children bapt. to George & Elizabeth Cobb in Benson but not one for Harriet, other than the baptism of Harry in 1884 to Harriet (single woman).
There is also a baptism for a George Cobb 2-4-1820 Benson (s/o James & Fanny) and Banns only for George Cobb to Elizabeth Champion sp, of Ewelme, in in Oct 1846
Added;
George Cobb (x) - m - Elizabeth Champion (sgnd) 31-10-1846 in Ewelme, Oxon (s/o James Cobb & Elizabeth d/o George Champion) Original marriage entry on Ancy.
Hope this helps.
Alan
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Hi Tom,
Without wishing to muddy the waters;
There is a separate "Cobb" family marrying and rasing children with parents George & Elizabeth Cobb in the parish of Drayton St.Leonard, Oxon. I note there is a Harriet Eliza Cobb bapt. 16-8-1857 (d/o George & Eliza)
This George Cobb (23, bach, carter, s/o William) - m - Elizabeth Russell (20, sp, servant, d/o Thomas) 11-10-1856 Drayton, by Banns
Alan
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In all census records Harriet is working as a domestic servant in various households. It seems she moved around a bit for work, which would explain why her illegitimate children were born in various places.
In 1894 there was a baptism in Benson, Oxfordshire for Lillian Annie Cobb born 1879
Mother – Harriet Cobb (now Harris) Roke Marsh
Harriet had 2 children with James Harris.
I can’t see that she was ever married to him.
Edith Maud HARRIS born 10 Dec. 1893; baptised 10 Mar. 1895 Benson, Oxfordshire
Parents – James and Harriet Harris, Roke March, bricklayer
HARRIS, EDITH MAUD Mother- COBB
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in WALLINGFORD Volume 02C Page 325
James Henry HARRIS born 1896
HARRIS, JAMES HENRY Mother - COBB
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in WALLINGFORD Volume 02C Page 321
In 1898 Harriett Cobb married widower, John Rowland. He died in 1903.
By 1911 (Devon) census Harriet is (“married under 1 yr) to John Grigg.
Marriage Bideford Dec 1910 5b 1045
Harriett Rowland to John Grigg
She died in 1937 as Harriett Grigg in Devon.
It is worth noting that Harriet's various "husbands" were very much older than she was.
Could this Lilian Annie actually be Annie Cobb born 1879? In the 1891 Census she is listed as Annie L Cobb.
Maybe thats a variation of Lilian Annie Cobb? What’s your thoughts?
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Could this Lilian Annie actually be Annie Cobb born 1879? In the 1891 Census she is listed as Annie L Cobb.
Yes, I believe she is the same child.
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Hello
There is also baptisms for William and his sister Annie at Norbiton
Annie born 13.8.1879 bapt 7.3.1880 d of Harriet Cobb servant Park road .Father is crossed out William George an upholsterer Hawk possibly Hawk's Road .
William bapt 2.2.1880 d of Harriet servant Kingston Workhouse.
So it looks like William George was named after his father.
Ciderdrinker
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Hello
There is also baptisms for William and his sister Annie at Norbiton
Annie born 13.8.1879 bapt 7.3.1880 d of Harriet Cobb servant Park road .Father is crossed out William George an upholsterer Hawk possibly Hawk's Road .
William bapt 2.2.1880 d of Harriet servant Kingston Workhouse.
So it looks like William George was named after his father.
Ciderdrinker
Fantastic work, Are these records on Ancestry? If so could you please link me them here?
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Hello
There is also baptisms for William and his sister Annie at Norbiton
Annie born 13.8.1879 bapt 7.3.1880 d of Harriet Cobb servant Park road .Father is crossed out William George an upholsterer Hawk possibly Hawk's Road .
William bapt 2.2.1880 d of Harriet servant Kingston Workhouse.
So it looks like William George was named after his father.
Ciderdrinker
I’ve found a William Charles Tinniswood on Hawks Road who is an Upholsterer in the 1881 Census. He appears to be the only Upholsterer on the whole of Hawks Road in 1881.
If this is him that would mean William George Cobb’s name was probably a combination of his father William and Harriet’s father George Cobb. William Tinniswood was born in about 1853 according to the 1881 census. Meaning he would have been around the same age as Harriet aswell. What do you think of my theory. Do you think it has any merit to it?
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I think it has possibility, but needs some more investigation.
I can’t see the baptism records that Ciderdrinker referred to in post #8.
I think you need to check that it isn’t just an error and should be attached to a Tinniswood baptism on the same day / page.
Do you have Harriet Cobb in Kingston or Surrey area in 1881 census?
William Charles Tinniswood born 1852 Kingston
William Charles Tinniswood (bachelor, upholsterer) 1st marriage 15 mar 1874 Kingston on Thames
To Sarah Smith
1881 census, Hawks Road 1 Excelsior Villas, Kingston on Thames
William C Tiniswood 28
Sarah Tiniswood 26
Charlotte Tiniswood 1
Fanny Tiniswood 2
Willie A Tiniswood 2 months
Charlotte Tiniswood 50 mother
https://www.ancestry.com.au/search/collections/7572/records/21624962
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QNNY-G6Z?lang=en
They had a lot of children ----
BIRTHS
- TINNISWOOD, WILLIAM THOMAS mother - SMITH
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 283
- TINNISWOOD, CHARLOTTE ELIZABETH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 302
- TENNISWOOD, FANNY LOUISA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 300
- TINNISWOOD, MAY AMELIA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321
- TINNISWOOD, WILLIE ARTHUR SMITH
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 329
- TINNISWOOD, MAY AMELIA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321
- TINNISWOOD, SIDNEY CHARLES SMITH
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 316
- TINNISWOOD, HORACE ARTHUR SMITH
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 348
- TINNISWOOD, LILY SARAH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321
- TINNISWOOD, MAGGIE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 305
DEATH
TINNISWOOD, SARAH 42
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in KINGSTON-ON-THAMES Volume 02A Page 199
William Charles Tinniswood (49, widower, upholsterer) 2nd marriage 1901 Kingston on Thames
To Emma Harris 39 Spinster
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I think it has possibility, but needs some more investigation.
I can’t see the baptism records that Ciderdrinker referred to in post #8.
I think you need to check that it isn’t just an error and should be attached to a Tinniswood baptism on the same day / page.
Do you have Harriet Cobb in Kingston or Surrey area in 1881 census?
William Charles Tinniswood born 1852 Kingston
William Charles Tinniswood (bachelor, upholsterer) 1st marriage 15 mar 1874 Kingston on Thames
To Sarah Smith
1881 census, Hawks Road 1 Excelsior Villas, Kingston on Thames
William C Tiniswood 28
Sarah Tiniswood 26
Charlotte Tiniswood 1
Fanny Tiniswood 2
Willie A Tiniswood 2 months
Charlotte Tiniswood 50 mother
https://www.ancestry.com.au/search/collections/7572/records/21624962
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QNNY-G6Z?lang=en
They had a lot of children ----
BIRTHS
- TINNISWOOD, WILLIAM THOMAS mother - SMITH
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 283
- TINNISWOOD, CHARLOTTE ELIZABETH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 302
- TENNISWOOD, FANNY LOUISA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 300
- TINNISWOOD, MAY AMELIA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321
- TINNISWOOD, WILLIE ARTHUR SMITH
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 329
- TINNISWOOD, MAY AMELIA SMITH
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321
- TINNISWOOD, SIDNEY CHARLES SMITH
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 316
- TINNISWOOD, HORACE ARTHUR SMITH
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 348
- TINNISWOOD, LILY SARAH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 321
- TINNISWOOD, MAGGIE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 305
DEATH
TINNISWOOD, SARAH 42
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in KINGSTON-ON-THAMES Volume 02A Page 199
William Charles Tinniswood (49, widower, upholsterer) 2nd marriage 1901 Kingston on Thames
To Emma Harris 39 Spinster
I cannot find Harriet in the 1881 Census I am afraid. The best I could give you is that by August 20th 1884 she was back in Benson as she gave birth to her final child with this mystery man. A little baby boy Harry Cobb. He died at 8 weeks of age of malnutrition. I also can’t see the baptism records that Ciderdrinker referred to in post #8. If they could post the link to the records for me I would be really grateful. Interesting you mention the surname Harris as Harriet did marry a man called James Harris. I wonder if there is any link there.
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Harriet had children with a James Harris, but I don’t believe they ever married.
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Harriet had children with a James Harris, but I don’t believe they ever married.
I cannot find any records of them getting married either.
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Hi
The baptism years for Norbiton St Peter are missing for the right years on Ancestry.They are on FindMyPast.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FSURREY%2F3046_1_3%2F084&parentid=PRS%2FSURREY%2FBAP%2F0266393
Annie
and William's
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FSURREY%2F3046_1_3%2F082&parentid=PRS%2FSURREY%2FBAP%2F0266370
Ciderdrinker
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Hi
The baptism years for Norbiton St Peter are missing for the right years on Ancestry.They are on FindMyPast.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FSURREY%2F3046_1_3%2F084&parentid=PRS%2FSURREY%2FBAP%2F0266393
Annie
and William's
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FSURREY%2F3046_1_3%2F082&parentid=PRS%2FSURREY%2FBAP%2F0266370
Ciderdrinker
Thank you,
I will check them out
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Harriet Ann COBB is shown as my 3rd cousin 3x removed in my tree. I have some information on her and her children. I think she may have married twice and had relationships with at least two other men, one of whom was James HARRIS.
I can share an extract of my family tree if that would be useful, if so, send me a PM.
Harry
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Harriet Ann COBB is shown as my 3rd cousin 3x removed in my tree. I have some information on her and her children. I think she may have married twice and had relationships with at least two other men, one of whom was James HARRIS.
I can share an extract of my family tree if that would be useful, if so, send me a PM.
Harry
I think I have messaged you, If it hasnt come through try and pop a message to me
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I've sent you a reply to your PM. I may not reply too quickly on occasions as we have visitors from Canada due over the weekend.
Harry