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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Hare1959 on Wednesday 14 January 26 17:14 GMT (UK)

Title: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Wednesday 14 January 26 17:14 GMT (UK)
I'm wondering if anyone can help me. My father's oldest maternal great aunt is proving illusive. Elizabeth Gibbs (daughter of Charles and Ann Gibbs nee James) was born on 21 April 1867 in Merthyr Tydfil. Her name was registered as Lizzie but she appears on the 1871 and 1881 census as Elizabeth. On the two census the family is living in Cardiff. I have traced all Elizabeth's siblings.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 14 January 26 20:04 GMT (UK)
Did Elizabeth possibly have a learning difficulty. The 1881 census records she is at home (dependant upon parents. Wondering if she was placed later in life in an Asylum.

SS
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Wednesday 14 January 26 20:14 GMT (UK)
I have noticed there were several Elizabeth Gibbs in the nearest Cardiff workhouse, but it is difficult to know if she is my relative. I have bought several death certificates, but they are not her.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 15 January 26 16:11 GMT (UK)
There's a Charles Gibb aged 12 , parents Charles and Ann. Admitted to  Glamorgan workhouse April 1892.
Father Charles Gibbs a mason has deserted the family.
Mother Ann is inmate of workhouse
Last address 55 Wellington Street

1891 Charles elder is a mason. Son Charles is 12.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: heddwch on Thursday 15 January 26 16:32 GMT (UK)
On the  1881  Census  she resides with the parents  and two siblings.   Ann born  1871 and  Jane born  1873.   Alongside  Elizabeth name it states   At home depends on her parents

Heddwch
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 15 January 26 17:57 GMT (UK)
Did Elizabeth possibly have a learning difficulty. The 1881 census records she is at home (dependant upon parents. Wondering if she was placed later in life in an Asylum.

SS
Record type Discharge
Glamorgan  county asylum records
Admission date 15 October 1888 ,age 20 Elizabeth Gibbs  single
.admission place Cardiff Resident place Ethel Street
Discharge information
Discharge to Parc Gwyllt.

Transcript only  :(
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 15 January 26 22:11 GMT (UK)
There's an EG (female) aged 33 b Merthyr in the Glamorgan County Lunatic Asylum (aka Parc Hospital)  in 1901 - described as a lunatic
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Thursday 15 January 26 22:23 GMT (UK)
It's intersting that an EG is in the lunatic asylum in Merthyr. Any suggestions how to take this further
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 15 January 26 22:27 GMT (UK)
You may have misread this - she's in the Glamorgan Asylum in Bridgend - matching up with the admission record Wilcoxon posted.

The record for "EG" in 1891 has the place of birth recorded as Merthyr, which matches your Elizabeth
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Thursday 15 January 26 22:44 GMT (UK)
I really need to learn to read :) Any suggestions how I can find out if EG is my Elizabeth Gibbs?
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 15 January 26 23:08 GMT (UK)
Is she still there in 1911, she probably was a long term patient. If not try looking for a matching death in that district.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Jool on Friday 16 January 26 00:44 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Gibbs is not listed at Glamorgan County Lunatic Asylum in 1911, the patients are listed alphabetically as full names not just initials.  Also, there isn't anyone else there with the initials E.G. that matches up with the 1901 record found by Mabel. 

Maybe she died between 1901 and 1911 .
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Jool on Friday 16 January 26 01:40 GMT (UK)
Glamorgan Archives may be able to help.

Quote from their website below.
"Our volunteers have created an index to case notes for patients at the Asylum, covering the years 1864-1955. Due to the nature of this information access is restricted, contact staff for information and to request a search of the database."

https://glamarchives.gov.uk/collection/indexes-and-transcriptions/asylum/?cn-reloaded=1
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Friday 16 January 26 01:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Friday 16 January 26 20:34 GMT (UK)
There's a Charles Gibb aged 12 , parents Charles and Ann. Admitted to  Glamorgan workhouse April 1892.
Father Charles Gibbs a mason has deserted the family.
Mother Ann is inmate of workhouse
Last address 55 Wellington Street

1891 Charles elder is a mason. Son Charles is 12.

The religion for 12 year old  Charles is Baptist,  so Non conformist.
Just thought I would add it.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 16 January 26 20:51 GMT (UK)
There's a Charles Gibb aged 12 , parents Charles and Ann. Admitted to  Glamorgan workhouse April 1892.
Father Charles Gibbs a mason has deserted the family.
Mother Ann is inmate of workhouse
Last address 55 Wellington Street

1891 Charles elder is a mason. Son Charles is 12.

The religion for 12 year old  Charles is Baptist,  so Non conformist.
Just thought I would add it.


Interestingly when Charles jnr is in the workhouse later in 1892 and again in 1893, his father is described as being in the workhouse rather than having deserted the family.

There's an anglican baptism for Charles in St Margaret's Roath in 1880 - son of Charles (a mason) and Ann
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Friday 16 January 26 21:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all the info. I am ok with Elizabeth's siblings (I am descended from her sister Ann). It's just Elizabeth being difficult
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 17 January 26 10:55 GMT (UK)
This is of interest but now adds another question
Catherine Saunders death was registered at Bridgend. 1902. So if Elizabeth Gibbs died in the Asylum why is her death not also registered Bridgend.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/land-sale-2000-bodies-unmarked-24392940
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 17 January 26 19:17 GMT (UK)
She may have been moved to another institution - I think accessing the asylum records via the Glamorgan archive link posted by Jool might be your best option
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Monday 26 January 26 17:33 GMT (UK)
Dear everyone

thank you so much for your help.

I have found her. She was, indeed, sent to the asylum. Glamorgan archives have sent me the information and it makes very sad reading. I am so glad I did this. Nobody deserves to be forgotten.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 26 January 26 17:50 GMT (UK)
How sad, but at least you found her and she has been remembered.
Is there a death record for her.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: softly softly on Monday 26 January 26 18:02 GMT (UK)
Pleased you can put a closer on her life , be it a sad one

SS
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Monday 26 January 26 18:06 GMT (UK)
There is a problem with the death as Glamorgan archives have sent some information about two Elizabeth Gibbs. My Elizabeth was sent to Glamorgan Asylum in 1888 suffering from epilepsy. However  the other Elizabeth was sent to Parc Gwyt with dementia where she died in 1896 at the age of 64. So I still have a bit of digging to do
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 26 January 26 20:35 GMT (UK)
Glamorgan Asylum and Parc Gwyllt are the same place

I'm wondering if you've read the notes correctly, as I can;t see an Elizabeth Gibbs death in 1896 that matches.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Monday 26 January 26 20:45 GMT (UK)
The Elizabeth Gibbs that died in 1896 was in her 60s when she died. My Elizabeth would have been 29 in 1896
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Monday 26 January 26 20:46 GMT (UK)
The notes that Glamorgan archives sent me that do relate to my Elizabeth states she was moved to Parc Gwylit in 1889.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Monday 26 January 26 20:47 GMT (UK)
So at the moment I don't know what happened to my Elizabeth after 1889
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 26 January 26 20:58 GMT (UK)
The Elizabeth Gibbs that died in 1896 was in her 60s when she died. My Elizabeth would have been 29 in 1896

That's why I'm confused.  I can only find one death registration for an Elizabeth Gibbs in her 60s in 1896, and she's in Northumberland
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Monday 26 January 26 21:11 GMT (UK)
Annoying isn't it? I'm beginning to wonder if once you went into an asylum. Nobody bothered with you again and deaths weren't officially registered.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Tuesday 27 January 26 16:40 GMT (UK)
Dear all. Thank you so much for all your help. Elizabeth's story is now complete. She was transferred from Parc Gwylit to Haywards Heath Asylum in Sussex in March 1904. She sadly died there in December 1904. Death seems to be connected with her epilepsy.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: heddwch on Tuesday 27 January 26 17:54 GMT (UK)
Fantastic you  solved it well done

Heddwch
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 27 January 26 19:56 GMT (UK)
I did wonder if it might be something like that.  And also where was she in 1901?

It's a long way to transfer her, given she was first admitted via the workhouse so presumably being funded by the local union. Is there a family connection with Sussex ?
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: Hare1959 on Tuesday 27 January 26 20:04 GMT (UK)
I take it she was still at Parc Gwytil in 1901. Glamorgan archives are sending me the details. No Connection with Sussex
Title: Re: Elizabeth Gibbs
Post by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 27 January 26 20:50 GMT (UK)

https://sussexasylumsburialgrounds.org/the-people/

The workhouses in the County of Sussex (and a few other workhouses from other counties) according to the Last Place of Abode entries in the burial registers, tell us that 22.51% of the people buried in the cemetery were admitted to St. Francis Hospital from a workhouse.

About 95% of the people in the cemetery had their Last Place of Abode listed in their burial record as being in somewhere in Sussex. Occasionally through the period in which St. Francis Hospital was functioning of people came into the hospital in groups from other hospitals or even Workhouses that were in other counties. An example of this was in the very early 20th century when 110 patients arrived in St. Francis Hospital from Cardiff in 1904 where the Cardiff City Asylum did not open until 1908 and mental health beds were badly needed because the Cardiff Workhouse and the Glamorgan Asylum were overcrowded in 1904, presumably with people with mental health difficulties. St. Francis Hospital had the space to take these patients as the new East Sussex Asylum at Hellingly near Eastbourne opened in 1903. As this Asylum opened it took East Sussex residents from St. Francis Hospital, which by chance released patient beds which came in very useful when beds were needed by the Cardiff patients, who were duly drafted in. Quite a few of these Cardiff people must have been in poor physical shape as by the end of March 1908 53 of the people, almost 50% in the 1904 draft, were dead and buried in St. Francis Hospital cemetery. But as stated earlier 95% of the people in St. Francis cemetery came from Sussex.