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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Berwickshire => Topic started by: gajjer on Wednesday 14 January 26 11:33 GMT (UK)
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My ggrandfather was George Johnston ( dob Jul 1847 )from Duns(e) in Berwickshire. He moved to London and joined the Metropolitan Police. He names his parents as William Johnston and I'm pretty certain his mother was Jane Durno. I have been able to confirm that by DNA results. What I can't find is information about William. I can't find a marriage between him and Jane. There is a 1851 census record showing
Jane Durno 65
Jane Hopkins 31
Jane Hopkins 6 months
George Johnston 2 years
I think Jane got pregnant by William Johnston but he may have died before George was born. Pretty quickly Jane gets together with a Dennis Hopkins and has Jane Hopkins. So the census shows Janes mother, with Jane Hopkins ( was Johnston nee Durno ), with Dennis Hopkins' daughter, and William Johnston's son George. I have a lot about George because of police pension records but I know nothing about William.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Gaj
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My ggrandfather was George Johnston ( dob Jul 1847 ) from Duns(e) in Berwickshire.
There is a 1851 census record showing
Jane Durno 65
Jane Hopkins 31
Jane Hopkins 6 months
George Johnston 2 years
Your date of birth for George is not correct, according to the census and his baptism.
Baptism record for George JOHNSTON 17/07/1849 in Duns
Parents William JOHNSTON and Jane DARNO
You would need to see the record, if it says the child was legitimate or not, and what if anything it says about the father.
Available on Scotlands People.
I suspect George was illegitimate. There are a few possible William Johnstons in the area at this time, so looking at the baptism record is important.
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Baptism for ˝ sister Jane HOPKIN
03/10/1850 Coldingham
Parents Dennis HOPKIN and Jane DIRNEY
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Jean / Jane DURNO
Birth 11 Aug 1819 (bapt 18 Sept) Coldingham, Berwick
Daughter of George DURNO and Jean FALCONER
1841 census for Jane DURNO
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a142867f4040b9d6e13559a/jean-durno-1841-berwickshire-coldingham-1821-?locale=en
1841 census Durno parents
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a142866f4040b9d6e1353bb/george-durns-1841-berwickshire-coldingham-1781-?locale=en
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George DURNO (Linen Weaver) married Jean FALCONER
22 June 1810
Coldingham, Berwick, Scotland
Baptisms for children of George DURNO and Jean FALCONER
In Coldingham
• Beatrix 26/05/1811
• Alexander 29/07/1813
• Alison 04/08/1815
• Helen 22/08/1817
• Jean 18/09/1819
• Margaret 21/10/1823
• Christian 31/12/1825
• Catharine 26/10/1829
Jean / Jane FALCONER
Born 01 APR 1785 Bunkle & Preston Berwickshire
Daughter of George FALCONER (Agricultural Labourer) and Beatrix "Beattie" MACK
Death 05 AUG 1860 Auchencraw Coldingham Berwickshire
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Thank you for your response.
On George's police pension record the date is unclear. It looks very much like a 7 but with a curl back at the top that could make it a 9. As you say the Census of 1851 would suggest the later date. I could find no baptism records but that may be because I had the wrong date.
I'm ok with the Durno side of the family but was really wondering about William's background.
Thank you so much for your input.
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As previously posted, the baptism record is readily available from Scotlands People.
Until you see the baptism record, you have no information about the father, and cannot move forward.
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Sorry, but I can't see a baptism record for George on Scotland's People.
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Baptism record for George JOHNSTON 17/07/1849 in Duns
Parents William JOHNSTON and Jane DARNO
You would need to see the record, if it says the child was legitimate or not, and what if anything it says about the father.
Available on Scotlands People.
As posted by Neale just search George Johnston 1849-1849 and it will come up old parish registers
Ref 735
Rosie
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Got it. Thanks. 'Old Parish Registers - Births' - not under Baptisms..
Many thanks
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Got it. Thanks. 'Old Parish Registers - Births' - not under Baptisms
It's all the same database, but if the date in the original document is (as is the norm) is the baptism date, that's the date in the index. Before the start of civil registration in 1855 there is no separate index of births as opposed to baptisms or vice versa.
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Good grief. The date for his birth in the Met Police Pension Register is the 9th of July. So he was baptised when he was only 8 days old! They must have been made of sturdy stuff!
Thank you for the insight. This is all new to me.
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So he was baptised when he was only 8 days old!
Not unusual. Sometimes they were even baptised on the day they were born.
I suppose in those days it was thought more important to ensure the child's eventual place in the afterlife than it was to organise a party around the baptism.
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Indeed. We are a long way from the days where families were 10 or more, and where a death in the family was common. My mother had a sister that died at birth and she never mentioned it. My father had a sister who died at the age of 10 and he never spoke about her. I just can't imagine what that would be like.
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So he was baptised when he was only 8 days old!
Not unusual. Sometimes they were even baptised on the day they were born.
I suppose in those days it was thought more important to ensure the child's eventual place in the afterlife than it was to organise a party around the baptism.
And a lot cheaper ;)
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Well it appears he was illegitimate. The father was William Johnston from Middlestots and it says that he was BORN on the 17th July 1849. Which is different to what George himself has recorded.
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Most possible made him self a few years older to join the police force at least you have the correct date now
Rosie
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That's an interesting thought. I never take dates in a census too seriously but as it was a date in a Police record tended to believe it.
His joining the Met has me wondering too. I don't know why but I would have thought it unusual for a young man to come down from Scotland and join the Met. I am assuming that he had no previous experience. Are there records of people serving with the Scottish police? Could he have been a mason, with connections?
So many questions.
Thanks everyone for your help. I think I have a reasonable idea of the facts now.
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I wonder if this is your chap. There is a Johnston family recorded at Middlestots in the parish of Edrom in the 1841 census. This includes a William Johnston age 14. I cannot see him in 1951 but this could be a family worth exploring. Below is the census entry from Freecen.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1428e7f4040b9d6e13fefc/william-johnston-1841-berwickshire-edrom-1827-?locale=en
William
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Thanks. That looks interesting.
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There is a baptism for a William Johnstone in Edrom - Born 9 Mar 1826 Baptised 27 Apr 1826.
Residence - Middlestots.
Parents - Adam Johnstone and Christian McLean.
William
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I don't know why but I would have thought it unusual for a young man to come down from Scotland and join the Met.
I am not surprised at all. Young men from all over the Highlands moved into Scottish cities and became police officers, so it would be quite reasonable for them to go a bit further south and join a police force in England.
I actually know someone of similar age to myself who did exactly that, and served in the Metropolitan Police for the rest of his career.
It also would not surprise me if someone had studied the topic, but I have no idea how one might find out.
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I don't know why but I would have thought it unusual for a young man to come down from Scotland and join the Met.
I am not surprised at all. Young men from all over the Highlands moved into Scottish cities and became police officers, so it would be quite reasonable for them to go a bit further south and join a police force in England.
I actually know someone of similar age to myself who did exactly that, and served in the Metropolitan Police for the rest of his career.
It also would not surprise me if someone had studied the topic, but I have no idea how one might find out.
That's encouraging. Thanks for that.
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There is a Johnston family recorded at Middlestots in the parish of Edrom in the 1841 census. This includes a William Johnston age 14. I cannot see him in 1951 but this could be a family worth exploring. Below is the census entry from Freecen.
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a1428e7f4040b9d6e13fefc/william-johnston-1841-berwickshire-edrom-1827-?locale=en
This Johnston family (but not son William) are in Canada by 1851.
In 1851 William is working as a stable boy in Edrom, but he eventually turns up in Canada too, where he married.
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There is a baptism for a William Johnstone in Edrom - Born 9 Mar 1826 Baptised 27 Apr 1826.
Residence - Middlestots.
Parents - Adam Johnstone and Christian McLean.
William
The only thing there would be that that William would be 8 years younger than Jane. But then again, you never know! I believe that William may have died just before George was born. So he wouldn't be around for the 1851 census.
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I don't know why but I would have thought it unusual for a young man to come down from Scotland and join the Met.
I am not surprised at all. Young men from all over the Highlands moved into Scottish cities and became police officers, so it would be quite reasonable for them to go a bit further south and join a police force in England.
You are aware that other members of his Durno family came to, and were married in London?
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I don't know why but I would have thought it unusual for a young man to come down from Scotland and join the Met.
I am not surprised at all. Young men from all over the Highlands moved into Scottish cities and became police officers, so it would be quite reasonable for them to go a bit further south and join a police force in England.
You are aware that other members of his Durno family came to, and were married in London?
Am I? Who would they be? Some of the entries in the Durno part of my tree were gathered from a DNA match to someone in Australia.
Are you suggesting George went down to London with some of the Durno family?
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For centuries, London has been a cosmopolitan city, attracting people from all across Britain and the world, who were looking for new opportunities.
When George Johnston joined the London police in 1868, he would have had to say his year of birth was 1847 to be old enough (full age) to join. Young men joining the navy and army, etc., often lied about their age in order to successfully attest.
Well it appears he was illegitimate. The father was William Johnston from Middlestots and it says that he was BORN on the 17th July 1849. Which is different to what George himself has recorded.
The Police Pension record was NOT filled out by George. It was completed by a clerk.
George signed at the bottom of page 2, nothing else.
When you look at every census record for George from 1851 through to 1911, you will see his age consistently gives a birth in 1849.
I'm ok with the Durno side of the family …………..
I have not seen your tree, but I would suggest NOT copying unchecked data from anyone else. Ancestry is full of incorrect trees because people copy mistakes of others, and don't check facts.
When trying to learn about the life of an ancestor, better understanding, and answers to questions can often come from researching the wider family line – siblings, aunts and uncles, etc.
I assumed by your above comment that you had done this.
George’s Aunt Christiana Durno married in Newington, London in 1860.
George's mother died in 1864. Did he come to his Aunt in London after that? What happened to his younger sister?
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There is every indication that George Johnston knew something of his father, which is not always the case with illegitimate children. So William was probably around the area where George grew up.
When George Johnston married in 1871 he named his father as William Johnston, "agricultural labourer".
Middlestots farm was (still is) just 3 miles from Duns. I cannot see any other place in the area with that same name.
The William Johnston at Middlestots in 1841 with his family, was still in the district in 1851 working as an agricultural labourer.
In 1851 he was working at Edrom Newton farm for Mr. George Carnegie. I think he is quite possibly the William Johnston you are looking for.
I haven’t found William in 1861 census.
By 1871 census William Johnston is in Haldimand, Ontario, Canada working as a farm labourer for the McNeill family.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4Q6-3RC?lang=en
In 1872 William Johnston (age 44) married Martha DUNCAN (age 42) in Ontario.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMKC-RY2?lang=en
I don’t believe they had any children, at least none showing in 1881 census.
I can’t yet find a death for William, but when Martha died in 1905 she was a widow.
William’s parents and many of his siblings came to Canada before him.
The 1851 census for Haldimand, Ontario, Canada -
Adam Johnston, 62, farmer, and
wife Christian, 61, with children
Patrick 28, John 18 and Agness 21.
The 1871 census for Otonabee, Peterborough East, Ontario
Shows Adam and Christian Johnston farming, still with some of his adult children living with him.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M471-B72?lang=en
Adam died in 1872 and Christian died in 1873.
If you have done a DNA test, I would check to see if you have any links with Johnstons in Canada.
[Perhaps a connection ALSO with the Johnston family of Middlestots Farm, Duns and New South Wales, Australia.
See this wikitree – don’t trust it, until you have checked all sources.
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Johnston-8403]