RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mel2345 on Thursday 08 January 26 12:32 GMT (UK)
-
Hi all,
I am really stuck on John Coward and Elizabeth Mary Williams and would appreciate any help!!
John Coward - born 1831 to William Coward and Ann Allen in Liverpool
Married
Elizabeth Mary Williams born October 1841 in Liverpool to William Williams and Hannah Jones
They married October 1863 in Liverpool. They had one daughter Hannah Osman Coward born July 26 1864.
But by the 1871 Census, their daughter Hannah Osman was living with her grandmother (at the same address on her birth record - Rice Street). Grandmother was Hannah Williams.
I cannot find any record of John and Elizabeth after this! I’m assuming one or both of them died but can find record of death for that time.
-
A warm welcome to Rootschat.
Was John's occupation "ship's mate"?
-
Baptism for Hannah gives fathers occupation as mariner
-
1863 Marriage licence/bond has "mate of ship".
-
Yes he was, which could explain why their daughter Hannah was with her grandmother but still not sure what happened to her mother Elizabeth.
There was a death of an Elizabeth Coward 10th November 1866 aged 25 buried Walton-on-the-hill but I have been unable to find it on the Gro index to get some more info on it.
-
Can you find it on the FreeBMD index?
The surname could be mistranscribed.
-
The burial record is faint and looks to be Howard.
There is a corresponding death record in West Derby.
-
I think that might be Elizabeth Howard rather than Coward unfortunately.
FreeBMD has a Howard entry for Dec1866
-
Oh thank you for clarifying that, it definitely does look like an H (and must be if it had a matching record on FreeBMD
-
Doesn’t help with what happened to yours does it.
Only one child does imply a death or break up of the relationship. Have you checked for any other births on the GRO index just in case?
I guess one of them could have remarried so could look for that.
-
Yes I have looked and couldn’t find anymore children for them.
I wondered if a John Coward’s marriage to a Sarah Lunt in 1865 was him as age and location match up but no sign of him being a mariner on kids birth records with her and says he was a bachelor on their marriage doc (which assuming Elizabeth died I would think it would say widow?) So nothing to really rule out or say for sure it is.
-
Your John had a father William, do you have the father’s name for the one who married Sarah? **
If your couple just separated he could have remarried, shouldn’t have but it did happen.
** father William Coward blacksmith - does that match the 1863 marriage?
One of the witnesses looks like Miles Coward
-
Yes the one who married Sarah, his father is also William. It says that William is a blacksmith (if I’ve read it right) which I believe my John’s William was a joiner throughout the census years.
Okay so there’s a possibility neither of them died (I don’t know if that makes this easier or harder haha)
-
Was Elizabeth pregnant at the time of the marriage? That could be a reason to “do the right thing” but didn’t work out long term.
Who were the witnesses to that marriage please?
-
John's 1863 marriage licence/bond appears under "Cheshire Marriage Licence bonds" The form reads "aged .......... and upwards" and "21 years" has been entered in the space provided. This has been transcribed as "born 1842" which does not reflect his 1831 baptism (opening post).
There is a later 1868 licence entry for a John Coward, mariner marrying a Mary Jane Grigg. Again the space "aged ....... and upwards" has been completed with "21 years" with both bride and groom being transcribed as "born 1847".
The Parish mentioned is "Walton" which links to the 1866 Walton on the Hill death of an Elizabeth Coward.
John Coward's address on the 1868 licence is 13 Buck Road, ......... on the Hill" - cannot make out if it is Walton.
Added - I initially checked licence for marriage status and failed to spot it. However, revisiting record I see "bachelor" - not the "widower" I was hoping for. Married Holy Trinity, Walton. Sight of marriage cert. required?
-
There's a Mary Jane Coward on the '71 Census, age 27, 63 Plumpton Street - described under "Occupation" as "Chief Mate's wife".
Head of Household William Grigg - also grandson Harold W Coward, age 1.
-
Harold William Quine Coward b 1869 mmn Grigg
Burial for the above 1875 Anfield Cemetery - residence 19 Holland Stree
-
John and Mary Jane Coward had 4 children 1870-1878, all registered with mother's maiden name Grigg.
3 baptismal records - 2 with "mariner" as occupation, 1 with "master mariner".
-
I was getting confused then with the ‘ two wives’
-
That John Coward has a father also John, who is a farmer so he does not fit with the one we are searching.
-
How have you established that the John that married Mary Jane Grigg had a father John?
-
The marriage record is available online - Ancestry. I thought you had seen it, sorry.
-
Thanks for clarifying - I don't subscribe to A*.
-
John Coward, 27 yrs, bachelor, Mariner,13 Breck Road, Everton - father John - Farmer deceased.
Mary Jane Grigg.
-
John Coward, 27 yrs, bachelor, Mariner,13 Breck Road, Everton - father John - Farmer deceased.
Mary Jane Grigg.
Thanks.
I struggled with the address on the '68 licence, considering "13 Brick Road, Buck Road ...etc". I see from above it was 13 Breck Rd.
-
Was Elizabeth pregnant at the time of the marriage? That could be a reason to “do the right thing” but didn’t work out long term.
Who were the witnesses to that marriage please?
It was a 5th October marriage in 1863 and their daughter was born July 26th 1864. So looks like she fell pregnant very quickly but unlikely to have been pregnant (or if she was wouldn’t of known)
There are no witnesses listed
-
John's 1863 marriage licence/bond appears under "Cheshire Marriage Licence bonds" The form reads "aged .......... and upwards" and "21 years" has been entered in the space provided. This has been transcribed as "born 1842" which does not reflect his 1831 baptism (opening post).
Are you able to read John’s address from the marriage bond? I can’t quite work it out, I see Elizabeth’s is rice street which is where she grew up and where her daughter Hannah was living with her grandmother in the 1871 census
-
It looks like 24, Myrtle Street, Liverpool.
The civil record would have the witness names.
-
If you don’t have the civil record, how do you know his father’s name and his parents’ names too? Also, that he was born in Liverpool?
Sorry, if I have missed this.
-
It looks like 24, Myrtle Street, Liverpool.
The civil record would have the witness names.
Agreed