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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Tuesday 06 January 26 19:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: overlandermatt on Tuesday 06 January 26 19:35 GMT (UK)
I'm investigating siblings of my GG grandfather William Pope from Langport. I can't find John Pope b1812 in 1841 when I think he was living in Bridgwater with his wife Charlotte b1812 and son William b1839. Is anyone able to work some magic and find him please? Charlotte was from nearby Aller if that helps at all...

He moved to Devon in the 1851 census and then Cornwall for 1861 and 71.

Many thanks!

Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 06 January 26 22:18 GMT (UK)
Posted in error - wrong family
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 06 January 26 22:27 GMT (UK)
According to the 1851 census his son William bn 1840 and son John bn 1843 were both born in Bridgewater
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 06 January 26 22:57 GMT (UK)
According to the 1851 census his son William bn 1840 and son John bn 1843 were both born in Bridgewater

Do you have b/c may help with an address? Digital image available from GRO indexes cost £3

POPE, WILLIAM       mmn LOCK 
GRO Reference: 1839  S Quarter in BRIDGWATER UNION  Volume 10  Page 296

John Pope married Charlotte Lock on 17 Sept.1838 Aller, Somerset
his res Bridgwater, hers Aller, his occupation sawyer

Added

William Pope Baptism 7 Jul 1839 Bridgwater St Mary, Somerset
Father  John, labourer Mother   Charlotte abode B’Water
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 07 January 26 10:37 GMT (UK)
Not finding them in 1841.  Have you tried parents/her Lock family to see if with them?
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 07 January 26 11:42 GMT (UK)
It's a tricky one. There are a few John Popes on their own that might loosely fit in 1841 if Charlotte could be found elsewhere. I've not sound her so far.

The baptism records for the sons either side of the census would suggest they are in Bridgwater. I just wondered whether this might be a transcription anomaly. I can pay for the birth registration information if it would help. Please advise and I'll get the credit card out!

It's been useful to look at John Pope - I've never been totally convinced about this generation of Popes baptised in Langport, Somerset - I think there were 4 siblings - William b1811, John b1812, George b1815 and Mary b1819. It's interesting to note that John called his children the same names in sequence (albeit with some extra boys). Unfortunately his younger siblings George and Mary seem to have disappeared - perhaps they died in infancy as a couple of Ancestry trees suggest without too much evidence. 

Thanks for the help so far.
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 07 January 26 13:20 GMT (UK)
The births could well just name a village, you should be able to get them as digital images for £3 each but maybe leave it until later to gives us a bit more time to look.
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: Milliepede on Wednesday 07 January 26 13:57 GMT (UK)
Yes I would agree with that, you don’t always get precise addresses especially in rural areas.

I wonder if possibly another child was born around census time as there is space between William & John. 
Might not help even if there was but worth a look in case any baptism location is different. 
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: teragram31510 on Wednesday 07 January 26 17:37 GMT (UK)
Charlotte would seem to have been baptised in 1809 at Aller (unless this is an earlier sister who died).
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 07 January 26 18:30 GMT (UK)
A few trees seem to have Charlotte born in 1809 although she is the same age as John in later census entries.

I didn't find any other children between William and John. I did wonder whether John was baptised after a delay. There was a small gap between John and the next child, George.
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: teragram31510 on Wednesday 07 January 26 19:56 GMT (UK)
"I didn't find any other children between William and John. I did wonder whether John was baptised after a delay. There was a small gap between John and the next child, George. "

Yes, I've just noticed that: William baptised in 1839 at Bridgwater to John and Charlotte - John's occupation is 'labourer'.
Then John was baptised in the same church at the end of March 1844 to John, who is now a 'farrier', and Charlotte.
Subsequently George was baptised 25th August of the same year to John and Charlotte. John is now a sawyer.
All the same family? John baptised late for some reason - very likely I think.

No time to look at more for the moment.
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: overlandermatt on Thursday 08 January 26 09:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks Teragram.

I've not got a great deal to add but I tend to think it is the same family. John Pope's father William was a sawyer in Langport so finding him as a sawyer in later life has been helpful.

10000 names in the Bridgwater census I noticed... 
Title: Re: Missing John Pope in 1841 census
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 08 January 26 15:30 GMT (UK)
The Pope family  are proving very elusive on 1841 census  :(

I tried again using FreeCEN to see if I could find John, Charlotte & William on the 1841 census in Bridgwater Somerset as that was the abode given on the 1839 baptism record for their son William

Did not use their surname Pope on the off chance it had been very badly transcribed

Persons named John born 1801 - 1815 there are 220 hits
Persons named Charlotte born c1801 - 1816 there are 37 hits
Persons named William born c 1838 - 1841 there are 157 hits
 :( NONE have the surname POPE or anything similar that I could see I'm afraid :-\

There is this Pope family with same names but John's occupation is not a match neither is their pob, posting details just to rule out

1841 Piece 257
Folio   16
Page number   26
Civil parish   Holsworthy
Hundred   Black Torrington
County/Island   Devon

John Pope 25 >>>>>>not born in this county Shoem
Charlotte Pope   30
William Pope 7 Mo

looks as if William has middle name Richard on 1851 census

Piece   1896
Folio   188
Page number   9
Civil parish   Holsworthy
Hundred   Black Torrington
County/Island   Devon

John Pope 36 Head Cornwall Shoem
Charlotte Pope   42   Wife Devon Holsworthy
William Ricd Pope 10 Son.  ditto
Andrew Pope 5 Son
Mary Elizth Pope 2 Daughter
John Pope 2 Mo Son

As mentioned getting the birth certificate for William may not be of any help if it just gives residence Bridgwater as per William's 1839 baptism record  :-\

Have you located both John Pope & Charlotte (nee Lock) parents/siblings on the 1841 census?