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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: gracol on Saturday 03 January 26 20:33 GMT (UK)
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My third request for help with the Seymours !
In the 1841 census I think he is with his mother Mary Ann Seymour in Tower Hamlets aged 8.
He married Eliza Flockton in 1855 in Hackney ,his father is shown as William Seymour.
I cannot find him in the 1851 or 1861 census.
Other trees show his father as Abraham Seymour who died in 1839 which would explain why he is with his his mother in the 1841 census,but this does not tie up with Alfred's father on his marriage details.
Again help please.
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What is Alfred's occupation on the 1855 marriage cert?
Is it just Alfred you can't find or Eliza as well?
GRO online shows 2 daughters born before 1861
His son born after 1861 had the second name Abraham
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1855 shows his occ as "cooks mate" which suggests he was possibly a seaman. If so - it would explain his absence
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Baptisms for all of his children show Alfred's occupation as Carman so he has changed jobs.
Some parts of 1861 census for London are missing and they might have been in one of those areas. None of the children born before 1861 or the mother Eliza are showing up in 1861 census.
Most of the children were baptised at St Matthias Bethnal Green and address was North St.
They all show up in 1871 in Poplar and Alfred is a Carman, which I posted on one of your other posts.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=895835.msg7704015#msg7704015
Ian C
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Starting a new thread for the same family makes it difficult / more timeconsuming for you and those helping.
Some of this information you have already been given on another thread.
1841 census St George Middlesex
Mary Ann Seymour 36
Eliza Seymour 19
Sarah Seymour 16
Caroline Seymour 10
Alfred Seymour 8
Rebecca Seymour 5
Alfred Seymour married 1855. His father was William Seymour (Foreman East India house)
For comparison - Marriage of Alfred’s siblings
• Charles Seymour married 1837. His father was Abraham Seymour (East India Company)
• Rebecca Seymour married 1856. Her father was Abraham Seymour (East India Company service)
• Caroline Seymour married 1852. Her father was Abraham Seymour (labourer)
East India House was the London Headquarter of the East India Company. In Leadenhall St until 1861. (see Wikipedia)
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For your further research ----
1851 census St Mary Marylebone
Ann Heard, Head 65 widow, born Hampshire
Caroline Seymour 20 Dressmaker grand-daughter born Middlesex
Susanna Turner 4 grand-daughter born Middlesex
Check out the Seymours at the same address in 1851
For example - Ann Seymour 45 widow born Sussex, and her child Emma 6 born middlesex
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Many thanks for the replies,am now investigating.
Thanks Carole W for finding what seems to be the only on-line record of Alfred Abraham's birth in 1860.Cooks Mate does indeed seem to be only a Royal Naval term.
Apologies for the separate Seymour posts .
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Alfred Abraham was baptised twice, firstly with his older sister Eliza in 1860 and then by himself in another church in 1867.
Ian C
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All a bit of a nightmare!
Alfred Seymour 1834-1894 (age at death 61,died Poplar).
Alfred's son Alfred Abraham Seymour (as CaroleW post) convinced me that his father was Alfred Abraham Seymour,who died in 1839,explaining the 1841 census where he is with Mary Ann Seymour .However his marriage certificate in 1855 states his father as William .??
As CaroleW post he is a cooks mate,a Royal Navy post explaining presumably why he is not in the 1851 or 1861 census.
Eliza Seymour (nee Flockton) 1835-?.
The marriage (in Hackney) certificate in 1855 states her father as James Flockton (a Fellowship Porter-interesting)
I cannot find them in the 1851 census ,and cannot find her in the 1861 census (maybe a missing census Eyesee),nor can I find her death record.
More help please.
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According to the census Eliza Flockton was born abt 1835 in Whitechapel
According to her marriage her father was James Flockton – occupation, Fellowship porter
A “Fellowship porter” – was a licensed porter who operated round the docks moving measurable goods like corn, coal, salt.
Even though Flockton does not seem to be a common surname, I haven’t found Eliz in 1851 or 1841, or a baptism for her, so she may be under a different surname.
Nor could I see a James Flockton.
There is a George Flockton born 1830 Whitechapel (married to an Eliza) with a family of about 4 children.
He might be a brother to your Eliza Flockton.
There is a John Richard Flockton born abt 1802 middlesex married in 1828 to Amelia Robinson
- Living in Bermondsey, Surrey in 1851 and 1861 (with family).
He Works as a Porter.
Then there is a Samuel Flockton b 1813 Southwark who works as a Fellowship Porter
He is married to Sarah, with a large family of mixed-surnamed children. You might explore them further>
Further suggestions - You could explore the witness at the marriage – Henry and Mary Simckins, to see if there is any link to the Flockton name.
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Many thanks for your reply,will investigate your suggestions.
Ref my post 8 do you think it could well be the case that Alfreds fathers recorded name as William on the marriage certificate was an error and should have read Alfred ? All would then tie up nicely with the 1841 census and his fathers death as the beginning of my post ?
Eliza Seymours death still a mystery.
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some parish marriages to throw in the mix
12 Nov 1837 All Souls Marylebone
Charles Seymour 196 servant father Abraham Seymour in the East India Co Service
Eliza Lambert 25 spinster father William Lambert wheelwright
both signed
21 June 1852 St Paul Shadwell
Robert James Day 23 labourer Griffin St father John Day carman
Caroline Seymour 22 Griffin St father Abraham Seymour labourer
3 Feb 1856 Christchurch St George in the East
Heinrich Strahmann 23 bach sugar baker 25 Tarling St
Rebecca Seymour 21 spinster 25 Tarling St father Abraham Seymour EI Comp Service
one of the witnesses Sarah Foulger
13 Feb 1860 parish church Poplar
Augustus de Souza ship steward
Sarah Foulger widow father Abraham Seymour EI Comp Service
death reg Sarah de Suza 48 dec qtr 1873 Poplar vol 1c pg 575
25 Oct 1875 parish church Poplar
Augustus De Souza full age widower ship steward Poplar
Caroline Day full age widow Poplar father Abraham Seymour soldier
one of the witnesses Eliza Seymour
1871 census for Sarah Desuze shows mother Mary Wood living with her.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB6H-TL6?lang=en
marriage 25 Dec 1843 St Leonard Shoreditch
Thomas Wood full age bach labourer father James Wood labourer
Mary Seymour full age widow needlewoman New Inn Yard father Walter Stone hotpresser (?)
one witness Eliza Seymour
marriage 27 Dec 1819 Christchurch, Newgate Street
Abraham Seymour & Mary Stone
witnesses Joseph Stone & J Burnley
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baptism 11 Jan 1801 All Hallows Barking by the Tower
Mary daughter of Walter & Mary Stone. Dob noted as 14 Oct 1799
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possible death reg
Abraham Seymour 41 sept qtr 1839 Stepney vol 2 pg 362
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Ref my post 8 do you think it could well be the case that Alfreds fathers recorded name as William on the marriage certificate was an error and should have read Alfred ? All would then tie up nicely with the 1841 census and his fathers death as the beginning of my post ?
Gracol
Please note – you have been given the marriage details of the children of Abraham Seymour (East India Service, etc) twice now in this thread, and previously in your other thread. I don’t see how we can give much more direction there.
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Hi Osprey
Good find re Mary Seymour (widow) 2nd marriage.
Abraham Seymour's death 1839 I think has been posted before and /or in previous threads on this same family.
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baptism 11 Jan 1801 All Hallows Barking by the Tower
Mary daughter of Walter & Mary Stone. Dob noted as 14 Oct 1799
1819 marriage witness Joseph Stone – was brother of Mary
Joseph Stone baptised Whitechapel 3 Aug 1794
son of Walter and Mary Stone
Another son James Stone
Baptised 1 Nov 1807 All Hallows Barking by the Tower (born 1805)
son of Walter and Mary Stone
Daughter Eliza Stone
Baptised 1 Nov 1807 All Hallows Barking by the Tower
son of Walter and Mary Stone
Another son Walter Stone
Baptised 23 Sep 1798 Christchurch Spitafields
Son of Walter and Mary (Hotpresser of Fort Street)
[HOT PRESSER - A worker in paper or textile industries where product was pressed between glazed boards and hot metal plates to obtain a smooth and shiny surface]
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1841 census Platina St., St Luke Finsbury
Walter Stone age 70 cloth presser
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVS-6BD?lang=en
1851 census Saint Luke Middlesex Platina street
Walter Stone widower, 80, born Norwich, cloth presser
James son 44 labourer born London
Eliza Chapman daughter widow 42 laundress born London
Eliza Chapman granddaughter 13 born St Luke
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGT6-1N5?lang=en
Burial - Walter Stone (age 82)
15 Feb 1852 Saint John the Baptist, Hoxton
Abode – Platina St.
DEATH CERT.
STONE, WALTER Age 82
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in SAINT LUKE'S MIDDLESEX Volume 01B Page 370
Possible baptism
Walter Stone 20 Sep 1770 Saint Martin At Oak, Norwich
Son of Joseph and Elizabeth Stone
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3 Feb 1856 Christchurch St George in the East
Heinrich Strahmann 23 bach sugar baker 25 Tarling St
Rebecca Seymour 21 spinster 25 Tarling St father Abraham Seymour EI Comp Service
one of the witnesses Sarah Foulger
Heinrich Strahmann of Hanover arrived in London 15 May 1852 having sailed from Bremen with four other sugarbakers.
www.sugarbakers.co.uk/sugarssoy.html
Ancestry - Immigration, Alien Arrivals
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Very many thanks for all the most interesting replies,and to Neale1961 ref reply no 4 ,it seems I couldn't see the wood for the trees.
Thanks again,a lot to look into and record.
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You have been looking for the 1851 census for your Alfred Seymour.
Remember his mother Mary re-married in 1843 to Thomas Wood
In 1851 census all the family (including Seymour children) are using the surname WOOD
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG18-2MK?lang=en
Occupations for Alfred and for Rebecca are not recorded, but I would assume they were both employed.
It looks as if Mary had 2 sons born to her second husband.
BIRTH
WOOD, WILLIAM Mother - STONE
GRO Reference: 1845 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST) Volume 02 Page 95
I can't see a registration for the son named Thomas born abt 1842 - maybe not registered.