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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: Smukke on Saturday 03 January 26 08:32 GMT (UK)
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Born 1928 Myton, Yorkshire
Marries a Herbert Cronshaw Pollit in 1957.
Dies 25 May 2000 Bridlington.
The problem I am having is, that I cannot trace her mother 100 %, on the birth records there is maiden name for mother as Shepherd too. I can also not trace her further from birth to marriage. I know she died in 2000 and there was an appeal for her family to come forward, she is actually my mothers Aunt but we knew nothing about her sadly until I started researching the family tree. I know nothing of any other siblings too,
Any help would be gladly received.
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Does her birth certificate not name the mother?
She may be illegitimate.
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What are the names of other family (who are deceased) who she might reasonably be with in 1929.
Do you know her exact date of birth? (For aiding 1929 search).
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Yes, sorry, the name of the mother is Shepherd too so I think she is illegitimate. Dob is 12 June 1928.
I have no other names of the family around 1928, I have tried to trace her in the 1939 census to see of other family members but can find nothing.
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How do you know she is your mother’s aunt?
The birth certificate should name the mother fully.
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She was married to my mums Uncle Herbert, but they lost touch in the 60's
The birth certificate does state the same surname so she is illegitimate
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What is her mothers christian name on the birth cert?
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I see that there was a newspaper appeal for relatives of June Cronshaw-Pollitt in June 2000, it was mentioned that she had been a recluse.
ADDED
Do you have the will
Cronshaw-Pollitt June Sylvia
23 May 2000
31 July 2000
476337
PROBATE Newcastle Upon Tyne
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Odd that June Sylvia cannot be found on the 1939 register with the surname POLLIT or POLLITT.
She should not be redacted. Presumably her mother has got married after her birth so in 1939 they will be under a different surname.
Did her date of birth just come from her death registration?
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I see that there was a newspaper appeal for relatives of June Cronshaw-Pollitt in June 2000, it was mentioned that she had been a recluse.
ADDED
Do you have the will
Cronshaw-Pollitt June Sylvia
23 May 2000
31 July 2000
476337
PROBATE Newcastle Upon Tyne
Yes I also have the newspaper reports, but I do not have a will, could you send me the link please ?
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Odd that June Sylvia cannot be found on the 1939 register with the surname POLLIT or POLLITT.
She should not be redacted. Presumably her mother has got married after her birth so in 1939 they will be under a different surname.
Did her date of birth just come from her death registration?
Yes, it was from the death cert however I also found it on BMD.
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I see that there was a newspaper appeal for relatives of June Cronshaw-Pollitt in June 2000, it was mentioned that she had been a recluse.
ADDED
Do you have the will
Cronshaw-Pollitt June Sylvia
23 May 2000
31 July 2000
476337
PROBATE Newcastle Upon Tyne
Yes I also have the newspaper reports, but I do not have a will, could you send me the link please ?
You have requested this by PM, I have replied
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If she is on the 1939 register it won't be under Pollitt as she only married in 1957
We need to know the following
1. Her mothers name from the birth cert
2. On the 1957 marriage cert - what is her marital status - spinster or widow?
3. Does she name a father on the marriage cert
4. I can't see any births to the marriage post 1957. Can you confirm they had no children. If they did - please do NOT post the names of any who are still living - only those who are known to have died
Herbert was 15yrs older than her - b 23.6.1915 & died Bridlington 27.3 1992. He left a will
He was illegitimate b Blackburn Lancs & appears to have been previously married in 1947 to Elizabeth E Emerson
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Yes, I cannot get hold of the Birth Cert online, it will have to be a posted one and as I live in Denmark it will take several weeks. However on the national bmd I can see that the mothers name is also Shepherd making it an illegitimate birth.
That would make her a spinster at the time of marriage however I am aware that Herbert was married previously and there were no children from either marriage.
I have been advised that the copy of the will I have ordered will take some time due to a huge backlog and I am really at a loss on how to find out more information.
I have found a marriage for a Silvia Shepherd to a Reginald Lund in 1933 in Yorkshire which could possibly be her mother but cannot find them on 1939 census.
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There is a tree on Ancestry which gives Herbert's mother as Emma Pollitt & his father as John Edward Cronshaw.
No mention of a marriage & apparently other children were born to the couple. Emma is said to have died in 1954 & there is a death for an Emma Pollitt on freebmd
You may want to contact the tree owner for more info in case they know about June. There is a photo of Herbert on the tree
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Tree states Sylvia's parents were Reginald Lund & Sylvia Shepherd
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I have found a marriage for a Silvia Shepherd to a Reginald Lund in 1933 in Yorkshire which could possibly be her mother but cannot find them on 1939 census.
There is a female birth in 1939 that would fit that couple - they are in Wembley in 1939, Sylvia bn 1914 and Reginald 1910
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There is a tree on Ancestry which gives Herbert's mother as Emma Pollitt & his father as John Edward Cronshaw.
No mention of a marriage & apparently other children were born to the couple. Emma is said to have died in 1954 & there is a death for an Emma Pollitt on freebmd
You may want to contact the tree owner for more info in case they know about June. There is a photo of Herbert on the tree
Yes thanks but it is me who has supplier both information and photos on Ancestry:)
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Tree states Sylvia's parents were Reginald Lund & Sylvia Shepherd
Yes but that was me originally but I think it is incorrect as he is not mentioned on the birth cert
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I have found a marriage for a Silvia Shepherd to a Reginald Lund in 1933 in Yorkshire which could possibly be her mother but cannot find them on 1939 census.
There is a female birth in 1939 that would fit that couple - they are in Wembley in 1939, Sylvia bn 1914 and Reginald 1910
Rosie can you send me a link to that please
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It is on Ancestry as
Reginald Land bn 1910
Sylvia,
Patricia A
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It is on Ancestry as
Reginald Land bn 1910
Sylvia,
Patricia A
Thanks x
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If June Sylvia was b 1928 & Silvia Shepherd/Lund was only b 1914???
Your reply #5 says "the birth certificate does state the same surname" giving the impression you have her 1928 birth cert. Reply 13 states otherwise. Then reply 18 different but again giving the impression you have the birth cert??
You can download a digital copy of the birth cert for £3 - SEE REPLY BELOW. INFO RE DIGITAL IMAGE IS INCORRECT
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It will only allow a paper certificate for that 1928 birth
SHEPHERD, JUNE SYLVIA -
GRO Reference: 1928 S Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 461
Order this entry as a: Order Certificate of selected entry
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Apologies - the 100yr rule applies so not available as a digital image until 2028 - full cert only
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Possibly a red herring, 3 Hull registered Shepherd/Shepherd births between 1911-1939, one being a June Sylvia 1928.
1921 Albert a nurse child.
SS
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Albert is a nurse child with James S Hoyles in Willerby, Yorks in 1921
Sorry SS I did not notice that you had posted it
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war register- 43 Albert Grove, Leeds, Leeds C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Possibly the Shepherd/ Shepherd son born 1938 in Hull. The couple he is with did not marry until 1942.
Marriages Mar 1942
Rahmatullah John Riddiall Leeds 9b 891
Riddiall Bessie Rahmatullah Leeds 9b 891
SS
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If June Sylvia was b 1928 & Silvia Shepherd/Lund was only b 1914???
Your reply #5 says "the birth certificate does state the same surname" giving the impression you have her 1928 birth cert. Reply 13 states otherwise. Then reply 18 different but again giving the impression you have the birth cert??
You can download a digital copy of the birth cert for £3 - SEE REPLY BELOW. INFO RE DIGITAL IMAGE IS INCORRECT
Just to clarify..... When I first posted, I did not know the mothers surname, however after checking the National bmd I saw it was Shepherd.
The 1939 sighting for Sylvia and Reginald is possible but only if she had June when she was very young. I have checked the Patricia A on the register and the mothers maiden name fits.
I do not have the birth certificate for June and as I said, it us only available as paper.
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Why do you think she was born in Myton?
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Only posting until ruled out
Name Albert Shepherd
Death Age 87
[87]
Birth Date 16 Apr 1916
Registration Date Mar 2004
Registration District Hull
Inferred County Yorkshire
Register Number B80A
District and Subdistrict 550/1B
Entry Number 73
SS
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Why do you think she was born in Myton?
It was on bmd 🙂
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If she is on the 1939 register it won't be under Pollitt as she only married in 1957
The 1939 register was taken over by the NHS as a list of "all" its patients and when women were married after 1939 the records were changed to show their new surname. You can see this on the images of the records.
So June Sylvia will be indexed with both her surname as in 1939 (whatever that was) and POLLIT(T) or the double barrelled version. As she died in 2000 then her record should not be redacted though there are some errors in the redacting process. Some people who should be redacted are not and some redacted who should not be.
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It was on bmd
Ah, you mean YorkshireBMD
https://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/birthsearch.php
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Myton sub district was (and I think still is) the location of the Hull Royal Infirmary. So this is probably a hospital birth.
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Myton sub district was (and I think still is) the location of the Hull Royal Infirmary. So this is probably a hospital birth.
Yes, Hull is that area
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I am assuming that you don’t have either of her marriage certificates either though they may not help if she did not know who her father was.
I think you may have to order that paper certificate and wait for the postal service to deliver it.
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Going out on a limb here. Believe she is the mother of both Albert 1916 (as per posted gro birth cert) & June Sylvia 1928.
A Violet Shepherd born 28.3.1894 parents Tom & Ann Elizabeth Shepherd nee' Branston.
Appears with parents in 1891/1901/1911/1921. Also with same dob in 1939 with father Tom.
Death, 4 days out.
Deaths Sep 1976
SHEPHERD VIOLET 24MR1894 HULL 7 751
Birth certificate of June Sylvia an absolute must to ascertain mother's christian name if this is to be solved.
SS
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Thanks everyone, I have ordered the birth cert 🙂
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Thanks everyone, I have ordered the birth cert 🙂
Please do let us know the details when received, thanks
SS
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Albert is a nurse child with James S Hoyles in Willerby, Yorks in 1921
Marriage of Albert
Marriages Jun 1937
Harvey Lilian Shepherd Hull 9d 648
Harvey Lilian Hoyles Hull 9d 648
Hoyles Albert S Harvey Hull 9d 648
Shepherd Albert Harvey Hull 9d 648
SS
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Albert is a nurse child with James S Hoyles in Willerby, Yorks in 1921
Marriage of Albert
Marriages Jun 1937
Harvey Lilian Shepherd Hull 9d 648
Harvey Lilian Hoyles Hull 9d 648
Hoyles Albert S Harvey Hull 9d 648
Shepherd Albert Harvey Hull 9d 648
SS
What is a nurse child please ?
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Albert shepherd in 1921, suspect an unofficial adoption
SS
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Thanks everyone, I have ordered the birth cert 🙂
Please do let us know the details when received, thanks
SS
Yes I will of course :)
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Smukke asked “what is a nurse child”
When the mother or parents of a baby did not have the time or space to look after the child then they could place the child with some family who would care for the baby. Usually for a small fee. Generally a satisfactory arrangement though there were cases of people taking in nurse children as a business just to make money and not caring for the children properly.
The only other option for a single mother who had to work to live might be to abandon the child to some charity or leave it on the church doorstep.
More affluent families could afford to pay for a wet nurse who would live withe the family and whose main job was to breast feed the baby. That could be if the mother could not provide enough milk or she just did not want the bother.
As the children got older they might.be looked after by a Nanny until they were old enough (7?) to be sent off to boarding school.
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Death of Violet SHEPHERD on 14 July 1976 age 82 as reported in Hull Daily Mail 15 July 1976. Three entries.
Aunt of Hilda and Ken
Friend of Mrs WHITELEY (Gladys COOK)
Mrs ROUT and Mr and Mrs WENN. Curly and Sylvia BROWN. Night night Auntie Violet - From all bairns.
Anyone know who they are?
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Sister Emma Shepherd born 1890 married Robert HUNTER and had a daughter called Hilda born in 1923. They are in the 1939 register.
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Death of Violet SHEPHERD on 14 July 1976 age 82 as reported in Hull Daily Mail 15 July 1976. Three entries.
Aunt of Hilda and Ken
Friend of Mrs WHITELEY (Gladys COOK)
Mrs ROUT and Mr and Mrs WENN. Curly and Sylvia BROWN. Night night Auntie Violet - From all bairns.
Anyone know who they are?
No not at all but I am trying to find out :) Thanks for all the help everyone it is very much appreciated x
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Sister Emma Shepherd born 1890 married Robert HUNTER and had a daughter called Hilda born in 1923. They are in the 1939 register.
Thanks, I just found this on ancestry, I do hope it is the right family :)
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Possible
Marriages Dec 1943
Hunter Hilda Smith Hull 9d 583
Smith Charles K Hunter Hull 9d 583
SS
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Freebmd
Deaths 1989
SMITH CHARLES KENNETH 26MR1923 HULL 7 757
GRO
SMITH, CHARLES KENNETH 1923
GRO Reference: DOR Q3/1989 in HULL (5502C) Volume 7 Page 757
appears in 1939 with that dob
SS
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Violet's burial
Death
16 Jul 1976
Burial
Hedon Road Cemetery
Kingston upon Hull, Kingston upon Hull Unitary Authority, East Riding of Yorkshire, England
Also in same grave
Shepherd, Annie Elizabeth : 15th March 1917 Date of death: 12th March 1917
Tom Shepherd 25 April 1944
SS
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Violet's burial
16 Jul 1976
Burial
Hedon Road Cemetery
Image of burial
Died 14 July at Kingston General Hospital
Gives her address, funeral directors, grave details, etc.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-KSN3-6
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Just returning to Albert Shepherd 1916. Married Lilian Harvey. Her dob 31st March 1910. Can be found in 1939 with same dob as Lilian HOYLE.
Lilian Hoyles b 31 Mar 1910 d aged 75 in 1986. Death registered Hull RD Feb 1986
Vol 7 Page 994
Albert Shepherd Hoyles
16 Apr 1916
Mar 2004
Hull
Yorkshire
Possibly 2 Female Hoyles/Harvey births, 1942 &1944
SS
article 1986