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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: jibhauler14 on Monday 29 December 25 18:09 GMT (UK)
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I have a Abraham Allen born June 1768 who was a horse dealer living in Bordesley Green he married a Elizabeth Smith born 1780 on 09/03/1819 at St Peter and St Paul's in Aston, they had a son Abraham born in 1824 and Baptised 01/04/1824 I am progressing quietly with Abraham's side of the family but cannot find any records regarding Elizabeth's father Pharaoh at least I think it is her father as a Pharaoh Smith is a witness at the wedding ! am I presuming to much in thinking it is her father ? either way I have failed to find a Pharaoh living in Birmingham any help appreciated..
Jib
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There is a Pharoah Smith who was buried on 30th December 1827 age 51 (born c1776)- abode Mount Street, Deredend - buried St Mary's, Birmingham
A possible baptism at St Bartholomew, Wednesbury, Staffordshire on 3rd March 1776 - parents Joseph and Elizabeth
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Another sighting of Pharaoh Smith in Mount Street
11 November 1822: Aris's Birmingham Gazette
[Auction Announcement]
...
LOT III. All that piece of Land, situate in Mount-street, Bordesley aforesaid, containing 441 square yards, or thereabouts, with five Messuages and Outbuildings erected thereon, in the respective occupations of James Taylor, — Reynolds, John Aston, Simeon Cater, and Pharaoh Smith, as tenants at will...
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There is a Pharoah Smith who was buried on 30th December 1827 age 51 (born c1776)- abode Mount Street, Deredend - buried St Mary's, Birmingham
A possible baptism at St Bartholomew, Wednesbury, Staffordshire on 3rd March 1776 - parents Joseph and Elizabeth
It is possible going by the age of this Pharoah that he is a sibling or cousin of Elizabeth, what do you think :-\
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Well that sounds pretty likely the wedding is between Abraham Allen a Batchelor and Elizabeth Smith a spinster both sign with a cross, the witnesses are Pharaoh Smith who signs his own name and a Mary Smith who signs with a mark so possibly as you suggest and I think highly likely that these 2 could be the bride's Brother and sister, given the age at death of your Pharoah it is possibly the brother, Wednesbury is close to Hill Top West Brom and Brum not that this proves anything so thank you just need to see if I can link the Wednesbury event with Elizabeth is their also a Mary baptised at St Bartholomew ? to parents Joseph and Elizabeth.. spelling is slightly different but it is I think an unusual name anyway, regarding the Auction and its location it seems to identify a Pharaoh Smith in the Bordesley area, thanks you very much I have something more to go on, interesting that he signed his own name on the Wedding Cert and appears to be on a Tenancy would you think this signifies someone with a level of education.. well done Guys thank you..
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Marriage of Pharaoh SMITH to Eleanor BENTLEY 20 Nov 1797, All Saints, West Bromwich
(FreeREG)
Bapts of children there also Wednesbury 1797-1813
On one Pharoah is a Auger Maker
I can see his Bapt 1776 but cant see a sister Elizabeth born c 1780 with same parents.
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Are you sure about Elizabeths age?
If born c 1780 she would be 39 if married 1819
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Abraham/Elizabeth also bapt a GEORGE 27 Oct 1827, abode Mount St, Father a Horse Dealer
Image on Anc.
The bapt above is a Daughter of GEORGE/MARY Smith, abode Mount St, Father a Brass founder
Maybe the Mary Marriage witness?
Worth investigating.
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This is Elizabeth I am pretty sure in 1841;
Birmingham;
Elizabeth Allen 35 Green Grocer, Not born in County
John Allen 20 Green Grocer
Abraham Allen 15
Leah Allen 20
All but Elizabeth born in County
Abraham Jnrs Marriage is on FreeREG 1849 Wednesbury, Staffs
He is a Green Grocer**, Father ABRAHAM a Horse Dealer
Elizabeth ALLEN a witness
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Ok, 1851 John Allen has married
Mother Elizabeth is still a Green Grocer, Widow, born c Tipton, Staffordshire
Marriage is 1850 Handsworth but a little out as Father Abraham is down as a Gardener as is John.
Mary Smith a witness
1861/1871 John is a Fruiterer.
Anyhow see what you think.
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I am having my doubts about the birth dates if they married in 1819 Abraham would have been 51 and Elizabeth as you say 38 but the Pharaoh who married Eleanor Bentley did have a daughter Elizabeth born in 1800 and a daughter Mary born in 1803 so if this is the Elizabeth she would have been 19 which seems more reasonable, There seems to have been a proliferation (today's word) of Abraham Allen's so I think I have to re visit the details on Abraham may be a son of Abraham married Elizabeth, my copy of the marriage lines unfortunately does not mention the father of the groom, there are shop keepers in the mix will have to check the trade directories, regarding the Bham Gazette are there fee copies anywhere, thank you all for the information the truth could be in there some where..
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ABRAHAM Allen bapt 5 Nov. 1798 Saint Martin, Birmingham to ABRAHAM/SARAH
Burial;
Abraham Allen
Age 40
Burial Date 31 Jan. 1841
Burial Place Bordesley, Holy Trinity, Warwickshire
Image has abode as Edgbaston St, Birmingham
Same address as 1841 Census I posted :)
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You may not agree but to me this is the line;
Abraham bapt 1798 to Abraham/Sarah
Married Elizabeth Smith 1819
2 children bapt Abraham 1825, born 1824 and George 1827
1841 Census has a Leah and John also but cant see bapts for them
Abraham dies 1841 before 1841 Census
Elizabeth is a Green Grocer 1841 Census and later and has a John/Abraham/Leah living with her
1851 Elizabeth is born c 1796 Tipton, Staffordshire
Son John c 1819 Birmingham now married
John/Esther Allen bapt a Son Pharoah Abraham Allen 1859 (on census just Abraham)
Birth Reg;
ALLEN, PHAROAH ABRAHAM mmn SABELL
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 43
Death Regs;
ALLIN, ABRAHAM age 40
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 210
ALLEN, LEAH age 25
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 225
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GEORGE Allen Burial 28 November 1830
Birmingham, Warwickshire, age 3*
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Very confusing just found a Abraham Allen aged 70 a widow in 1841 census living in Alcester St, Aston, son John is aged 20 and a horse dealer. daughter Hannah Squelch (ma name) aged 25 a Green Grocer, another son John aged 13 and a daughter Emma 11, plus a Abraham son of Joseph and Hannah was baptised in Kingsnorton 24/06/1768
So I have an Abraham with a son who is a horse dealer and a daughter who is a green grocer lots of coincidences, need to collate and eliminate I think.. I also have a Abraham Allen dies in 3rd quarter 1860 if I could find the 1851 census that might help, thanks for all the help