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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Ann Baker on Saturday 27 December 25 07:31 GMT (UK)
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Hi
20+ years researching my lot never got an answer to this one so it got put on the 'Go back and look later' pile. Having looked again still none the wiser.
My gtx 5 grandpa (Alexander Stewart but baptised Steuart) was born 2/3/1791 in Cambusnethan. He was the illegitmate son of John Steuart and Betty Morton. Both were had up before the Kirk sessions for a sound public telling off so that part is confirmed. They never married.
What I'm looking for is some help/tips to find both John and Betty's BMD certs.
Because it's so far back, may just not be there.
I'm trying to close some things off where stuff just isn't there and is never going to be but would welcome some other pairs of eyes just to check I'm not missing something dead obvious.
Thanks
Ann
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Ann,
Hi, you do not give much to go on.
Obviously unlikely to live to the point of certs, but stranger things have happened!
There do not seem to be many St*r*t deaths in Cambusnethan, but they may have moved.
What trace do you have of Alexander?
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Hi
I have Alexander's baptism. Born Cambusnethan 2/3/ 1791 but baptised in Carluke 28/7/1791. I have the Kirk Session records confirming John Steuart eventually accepted responsibility.
Alexander died 21/5/1865. I have his death cert. He died in Cambusnethan.
Thanks
Ann
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Hi Ann,
I can confirm that Alex was interred in Cambusnethan cemetery, the entry in the gravedigger's day book is -
"ALEXANDER STEWART, pauper, married, Newmains. Parent - Elizabeth Morton (domestic servant).
Interred in public ground, 23rd May 1865".
Not much I'm afraid. If you can list his parents I can check for a burial place for them too.
Lodger.
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Hi Lodger
Elizabeth Morton was his mum and his dad was John Steuart. I don't have any more info about them at present :(
Thanks
Ann
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Hi Ann,
Yes, I see by your original post who his parents were but, his burial record only records his mother and her occupation.
Was his birth recorded in the parish of Cambusnethan or in Carluke? I don't see anything in the Cambusnethan Session records for 1791.
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Hi
His baptism is recorded in Carluke. It says born 2nd March Cambusnethan and baptised 28th July 1791. His mum was a domestic servant in Cambusnethan (according to Kirk session minutes).
Thanks
Ann
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Ann,
Hi have you got him in all the Census records?
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Hi
Up until 1861 , yes. 1851 and 1861 confirm him as Cambusnethan. I have his info. It's his parents info I'm looking for
Thanks
Ann
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Carluke Session records. Several entries on pages 342 & 343 relating to Alexander's birth and parentage. "8th May 1791 Betty Morton, presently residing in the upper town of Cambusnethan, confessed herself with child and gave up John Stewart, coal-hewer at Gillhead in the parish of Cambusnethan as the father of her child and said that the child was begot when she was a servant in this parish".
John was, after a couple of attempts, made to appear before Carluke Session, where he first denied being the father and then finally admitted to "uncleaness" with Betty!
In my opinion, Betty must have been born in Carluke parish, if she she had been born in Cambusnethan, given the fact that she was, at the time of the entries made in the Carluke records, actually living in Wishaw (Cambusnethan parish) she would have been brought before Cambusnethan Session. I noticed there was a couple of entries for parochial relief in Carluke Session records for "Betty Morton in Law" (Law is a village, very close to Wishaw but in Carluke parish) this may or may not be her, it could even refer to her mother or grandmother but, it may be a clue to her origins, it can't be ignored until it can be discredited.
John Stewart was a coal miner at Gillhead, this is in modern-day Wishaw, an area in the Dimsdale part of the town, about 2 miles from Law village. It gives us a clue to his residence and, perhaps more can be found?
I'll have a look through any records I have for the name Stewart at Gillhead.
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I think she's Carluke parish. The fact she was up before the Carluke Kirk Session and the baptism was there points that way :)
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Have you looked at the Elizabeth Morton who married in Carluke in 1791?
Otherwise running out of candidates.
That should be Eilizabeth perky auto correct!
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I have but nothing to confirm she's the Betty I'm looking for. Definitely a possible tho
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Ann, on the 1865 death certificate for Alexander, how is his mother recorded? Is she Elizabeth (or Betty) Morton ..... subsequently ...... (another name) or is she simply Morton?
If there isn't another surname I'd be inclined to think she was never married.
Going back to the birth entry of 1791, are there any sponsors names? Any area of the parish? Any clues at all?
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Hi
The death cert says Elizabeth Morton, Domestic Servant, Deceased.
Baptism doesn't have any sponsors
'Alexander natural son to John Stewart and Betty Morton in Cambusnethan parish born 2nd March and baptised 28 July 1791'
Thanks
Ann
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Just looking through notes I made years ago and I found an old email suggesting she'd married a James Russell which is the 1791 marriage David is referring to.
I looked to see if they had any children and came up with nothing. Still not finding anything on that front. I did wonder at the time if she called the baby Alexander after her father rather than John cos he was a bit of a baddie so looked for baptisms across Scotland as a whole.
There were 3 possibles where dad's name was Alexander. First one was in Glasgow 1776 which would have made her 15 at the time the baby was born. Second one was in Livingston in 1774 when she'd have been 17 and last one was in 1765 again in Glasgow. They're all very possible tho if she was 15 then John was a baddie indeed.
I didn't find any in Carluke
Thanks
Ann
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Going by that wording, I think the birth would have been in Carluke parish, not Cambusnethan.
also, if the Alexander who made the poor relief application in 1862 is the same man, he states he was born in Carluke. All the other details in the application seem to confirm that it's the same person.
He is residing at Morningside, which is Newmains. He is married (although no wife's name is given) and his 3 children are - Alexander, Marion and BETTY.
As to his death certificate, I would say, going by the wording, Elizabeth never married.
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So....
The Alexander Morton who is in the Poor books is married to a Christian Weir. I've found 5 children with both parents listed on SP.
Andrew b 1760
Betty b 1763
James b 1765
Christian b 1768
Marion b 1770
Not finding an Alexander tho.
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The Alexander Stewart who is claiming poor relief made the application 15th February 1862. He states he is 70 years old and born in the parish of Carluke.
His three children are -
ALEXANDER, aged 48 years, a miner, married with a family, living in Craigneuk. (Dalziel parish).
MARION, aged 46 years, married to John Hamilton an engine keeper, 10 children, living in Glasgow.
BETTY, aged 44 years, married to John Smith a miner, 1 child, living in Craigneuk.
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I think the Alexander who made the poor relief claim could have been married to Jane Walker.
Another Alexander Stewart made a claim on Cambusnethan parish in 1877, he states he is aged 63, a widower, born at Bush, parish of Cambusnethan. (Bush = Gillhead).
He gives his parents as Alexander Stewart, a miner and Jane Walker, both dead.
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Ah! I misunderstood.
Yes that's him. He actually had 4 more children. Elizabeth Smith was the informant on his death cert so that confirms it.
His parents are John Steuart and Betty /Elizabeth Morton.
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Yes the one making the poor relief claim was indeed married to Jane Walker.
The second one making the claim in 1877 was born in Thornbush in 1814 and is the first one's son. He died 6th July 1877 . Place of death Alicia Bank Orchard, Cambusnethan
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Baptisms to Alexander Steuart and Jean Walker, all in Cambusnethan: Alexander 1814, Marrion 1816, Elisabeth 1819, Jean 1823, John 1826, Mary 1828, Henry 1830.
1841 Census: Torbush, Cambusethan: Alexander Stewart, 45; Jean Walker, 46; Elisabeth, 22; Jean, 19; John, 16; Henry, 7; Alexander Smith, 5 months.
1851 census, Morningside, Cambusnethan: Alexander Stewart, 56; wife Jean, 57; children Janet, 15; Jean, 12; Ann, 9; Alexander, 4; John, 1.
1861: Alexander S, 70, married; daughter Elizabeth, 42 and grandson Alexander, 17.
Looks as if they were a bit shaky when it came to knowing how old they were.
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Yes just a tad. I already have them on the census returns but thank you for looking them up :) Also have all their kids BMD records.
@Lodger is there online access to the Poor Books for the area ? (I have other ones where they might be helpful)
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Also have all their kids BMD records.
I take it then that either there are no witnesses listed, or the witnesses don't provide any clues?
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Not a single one. They all just say dad's name (Alexander Stewart) lawful son/daughter, child's name, born onb (date) and baptised on (date). No mum's name no sponsors/witnesses
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Also have all their kids BMD records.
I take it then that either there are no witnesses listed, or the witnesses don't provide any clues?
It's Alexander Stewart born in 1814's parents BMD info I'm looking for. I have all the BMD for Alexander, his siblings and his (and their) kids all the way through to me
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@Lodger is there online access to the Poor Books for the area ? (I have other ones where they might be helpful)
The Poor Relief applications for North Lanarkshire are on Ancestry.
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Brilliant :) Thank you! A good nosey I shall have :)
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Hi Ann,
Can you fit any of these 3 into your Stewart family?
ADAM MAIR, died February 1889 aged 57 years.
ALEXANDER STEWART, died August 1895 aged 7 months.
ALEXANDER STEWART, died November 1898 aged 52 years.
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I can :)
Adam Mair married Janet Stewart. They are my 3 x gts. Janet's dad is Alexander Stewart (He's the Thornbush one). And then of course his father who was married to Jane Walker.
The second Alexander Stewart in your list is Janet's younger brother - son of Alexander (Thornbush)
The first, can't see him in my tree. It's possible he was Jane's nephew. I've not checked out her siblings kids yet
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It's Alexander Stewart born in 1814's parents BMD info I'm looking for.
Yes, I get that, but I've found the witnesses to baptisms in some other parishes useful, so I was clutching at that straw.
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I get you :) Unfortunately the parish clerk who recorded them was a bit minimalist :(
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I can :)
Adam Mair married Janet Stewart. They are my 3 x gts. Janet's dad is Alexander Stewart (He's the Thornbush one). And then of course his father who was married to Jane Walker.
The second Alexander Stewart in your list is Janet's younger brother - son of Alexander (Thornbush)
The first, can't see him in my tree. It's possible he was Jane's nephew. I've not checked out her siblings kids yet
BINGO!!!
The Alexander who died in 1865 is, for a reason we probably will never know, buried in a pauper's grave in the cemetery BUT, his son Alexander is recorded in the gravedigger's day book thus -
"Alexander Stewart, miner, Alicia Bank Orchard, aged 62 years, widower.
Parents - Alexander Stewart and Jane Walker.
Interred in the old churchyard on 9th July 1877".
There is a Plot Book for the churchyard but it only begins about 1878, so just misses the above Alexander. However, there is a Stewart family plot in that book with three post-1878 deaths recorded, Adam Mair and the two other Alexander Stewarts.
So, we now have the correct Stewart family resting place AND, I have the transcript of a headstone which probably doesn't exist any more. (I will have a look when the weather clears).
This is the transcription -
"Erected by Alexander Steurt and Jean Steurt in memory of their daughter Jean who died 17th March 1838 aged 1 year."
Is this your Alexander Stewart and Jean Walker? Or, an earlier generation?
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Oh! That's fantastic!
You're a mega star :D
Thank you so much!
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Hi
Jean is the daughter of Mr Thornbush. She died as a baby. They re-used the name with the next one