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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: phow on Monday 22 December 25 12:38 GMT (UK)
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"George Henderson, bachelor, married Mary Mitchell, spinster on 14th April 1833 at St Lawrence church, Warkworth. Witnesses - William Lamb, Adam Henderson, David Henderson"
George and Mary moved to Seaton Sluice in Northumberland are well documented. Census records tell us that George was born in Roxburghshire, Scotland.
Lots of family trees on Ancestry, have him as 'George Henderson, born in Sprouston, Roxburghshire, in 1808, son of another George Henderson and Ann Mitchell' ... but he called his first son David and I suspect that Adam Henderson and David Henderson who were witnesses at his wedding were either his brothers, or brother and father.
I'm completely stuck when I start looking for potential David or Adam Hendersons in Roxburghshire though.
There is a William Lamb in Kelso who would be around the right age to be friends with George, so Kelso is a possibility.
I've looked all over the Borders and nothing is particularly leaping out.
Maybe Ancestry is right and my George is the one that was born in Sprouston after all?
Any help is very gratefully appreciated!
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I note two of the census returns you mention, on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk there are 3 baptisms/births for a George with the father David but none in the Borders. The nearest being
GEORGE OGILVIE HENDERSON parents DAVID HENDERSON/MARGARET CREADIE
21/01/1810 Leith South but no Adam Or David, so unlikely.
If I am correct Mary's parents were William & Margaret, so they may have followed the English/ Scottish Naming pattern, for their parents but not necessarily.
1841 Seaton Sluice
HENDERSON George M 30 Colliery Lab Scotland
HENDERSON Mary F 25 Northumberland
HENDERSON David M 8 Northumberland
HENDERSON William M 6 Northumberland
HENDERSON Margaret F 1 Northumberland
1861 Seaton Sluice
HENDERSON George 53 Labourer Bottle Factory Scotland Roxburghshire
HENDERSON Mary Wife 48 Northumberland Alnmouth
HENDERSON Jane Dau 20 Dressmaker Northumberland Seaton Sluice
HENDERSON John Son - 11 Scholar Northumberland Seaton Sluice
HENDERSON Joseph Son - 9 Scholar Northumberland Seaton Sluice
HENDERSON Ann Dau - F 4 Scholar Northumberland Seaton Sluice
Colin
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I had a look in the census. the 1841 and 1851 record George's birthplace as Scotland, and the 1861 is missing from the transcription site I have access to.
However the 1871 does not appear to say Roxburghshire. See screenshot. I read the first part as Ross and the second part as Drith or Brith, neither of which makes any sense at all.
Has anyone seen the original of the 1861?
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I had a look in the census. the 1841 and 1851 record George's birthplace as Scotland, and the 1861 is missing from the transcription site I have access to.
However the 1871 does not appear to say Roxburghshire. See screenshot. I read the first part as Ross and the second part as Drith or Brith, neither of which makes any sense at all.
Has anyone seen the original of the 1861?
1861 says Scotland Roxburghshire
The 1871 does look like Ross maybe Birth could be mistaken for Burgh ?
Rosie
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I read it as "Ross Burrh" which, when you say it quickly, is pretty close to Roxburgh.
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Thank you everyone!
Yes, I'd noticed the spelling :) I assumed the enumerator couldn't spell it and just tried to give it a good guess.
That is the right family. Son George was born in 1844 and he's a direct relation.
I assumed (again! I should stop doing that) that the first born son was probably named after George's father and the second was named after Mary's father.
Another assumption is that George's father was a labourer or farmer ( this is a family of labourers or sailors) which could mean that he moved his family wherever there was work. Which means they could be from anywhere!
If I am correct Mary's parents were William & Margaret, so they may have followed the English/ Scottish Naming pattern, for their parents but not necessarily.
1841 Seaton Sluice
HENDERSON George M 30 Colliery Lab Scotland
HENDERSON Mary F 25 Northumberland
HENDERSON David M 8 Northumberland
HENDERSON William M 6 Northumberland
HENDERSON Margaret F 1 Northumberland
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There were only 3 birth/baptisms in Roxburgh 1805-1811 on SP.
GEORGE HENDERSON 17/11/1805 Bedrule
ANDREW HENDERSON/?
1851 Wilton Roxburghshire
George 47 Mason/journeyman born Bedrule
Wife Helen 44 born Wilton
Children William 15, Robert 4, Helen 2, John 11mth, all born Wilton
GEORGE HENDERSON 1/12/1811 Jedburgh
ANDREW HENDERSON/MARGARET LAUDER
1851 Pleasance, St Cuthberts, Edinburgh.
George Cabinet Maker born Jedburgh
Wife Rachel 38 born Stirling
Elizabeth 18, Margaret 15, Rachel 10 all born Edinburgh
That only leaves this one, unless there was another, which did not survive etc. ?
GEORGE HENDERSON 23/02/1807 Sprouston
GEORGE HENDERSON/ANN MITCHEL ,
Colin
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That only leaves this one, unless there was another, which did not survive etc. ?
GEORGE HENDERSON 23/02/1807 Sprouston
GEORGE HENDERSON/ANN MITCHEL ,
That's exactly the problem.
Just because it's the only possible candidate in the records doesn't mean it's the right person, simply because there may be others whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived.
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That only leaves this one, unless there was another, which did not survive etc. ?
GEORGE HENDERSON 23/02/1807 Sprouston
GEORGE HENDERSON/ANN MITCHEL ,
That's exactly the problem.
Just because it's the only possible candidate in the records doesn't mean it's the right person, simply because there may be others whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived.
Yes, I've seen this George all over Ancestry and I really don't believe that he's the right one.
From census records, I've worked out that mine was potentially born early April 1808.
Thank you everyone for taking time to check things out for me! I do appreciate it. Have a lovely Christmas :)
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Maybe just a little more research is required, when you go back things might fall into place, such as marriages for those below etc.
GEORGE HENDERSON/ANN MITCHELL
children:
George 23 Feb 1807, Sprouston, Roxburghshire.
John 12/09/1808 Melrose, Roxburghshire.
William 29/07/1811 Stow, Midlothian
Mary 20/10/1817 Middlebie, Dumfries
On FS
Ann, Wife Age 70 years
Birth Year (Estimated) 1787
Death Date 27 October 1857
Spouse's Name
Mr George Henderson
Event Type Obituary 24 October 1857
Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland
Colin
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Ohhhhhhh! I'll take a look at that, thank you!
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I hope these are the correct ones, the dates seem about right but no marriage or census yet.
Mr George Henderson Age 78
Birth Year (Estimated)1779
Obituary 28 Feb 1857
Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Newspaper Newcastle Journal
HENDERSON, GEORGE 77
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 51
HENDERSON, ANN 70
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 69
Colin
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From census records, I've worked out that mine was potentially born early April 1808.
The 1851 census was taken on 30 March 1851, and George said he was 43, which, if accurate, would mean he was born between 31 March 1807 and 30 March 1808.
The 1861 census was taken on 7 April 1861, and George said he was 53, which, if accurate, would mean he was born between 8 April 1807 and 7 April 1808.
The 1871 census was taken on 2 April 1871, and George said he was 62, which, if accurate, would mean he was was born between 3 April 1808 and 2 April 1809.
As there's no overlap between his putative dates of birth from the 1851 and 1871 censuses, at least one of them has to be wrong, and your best estimate is that he was born between 1807 and 1809.
This doesn't fit well with the baptisms of the children of George Henderson and Ann Mitchell.
There are 18 months and 20 days between the baptisms of George on 23 February 1807 and John on 12 September 1808, and only 14 months and 19 days between the baptism of John and the end of 1809.
So I think you are right to be wary of the Anc* trees (actually, it is always right to be wary of any online tree!).
One thing you can do, if you have access to Anc*, is to look at all the trees there and see what source they cite for George's birth/baptism. Dismiss every tree that cites another tree or a secondary source (e.g. another web site or a book written long after the event), because you know that their authors have just copied someone else, and then see what you are left with. If they don't cite a primary source they cannot be trusted.
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HENDERSON, GEORGE 77
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 51
HENDERSON, ANN 70
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 69
Interesting possibility.
Looking at the census transcription at FreeCEN, in 1851 there appear to be two George Hendersons in Northumberland born before 1800 with a wife named Ann or variants.
In Wooler in 1851 is George Henderson, 59, baker, born Wooler with wife Ann, 57, born Ilderton, Northumberland and three children including George, aged 28. This Ann was only about 14 when Ann Mitchell's eldest child was baptised, and her son George is clearly not yours, so I think this couple can safely be discounted.
In Newcastle All Saints is George Henderson, 62, Summoner To The Trinity House, born Gateshead, County Durham with wife Hannah, 53, born Newcastle. This couple were also in Newcastle in 1841, ages recorded as 50 and 40 respectively. Obviously their ages in the census do not tally with the ages in the deaths index. In the same household in 1841 is George Henderson, 14, so again I think they can probably be dismissed.
If the 1857 death certificate is that of this George, he too can be eliminated as a possible candidate to be your George's father.
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From Durham Records Online, could this be one of the marriage witnesses, also relocated to Seaton Sluice with George?
Burials Tynemouth 1839 David Henderson abt 1773 Seaton Sluice
15th Dec 1839 age 66, unfortunately no occupation given.
BT Earsdon St Alban NBL:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6S9W-ZV7?wc=9K53-DPD%3A13617901%2C19407801%2C19407802%26cc%3D1309819&cc=1309819&lang=en&i=1071
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From Durham Records Online, could this be one of the marriage witnesses, also relocated to Seaton Sluice with George?
Burials Tynemouth 1839 David Henderson abt 1773 Seaton Sluice
15th Dec 1839 age 66, unfortunately no occupation given.
BT Earsdon St Alban NBL:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6S9W-ZV7?wc=9K53-DPD%3A13617901%2C19407801%2C19407802%26cc%3D1309819&cc=1309819&lang=en&i=1071
Thank you.
I've been all the way through the 1841 census, hoping that this David would have left some relatives behind, but the only other Henderson I've found is Jane Henderson (40), so I'll try to find out who she is.
I came to a dead end with George a while ago, so moved on and have only just come back to him. I've found a few other bits in the last few days, but they aren't terribly helpful in terms of birthplace :
- First born son, David was born in Buston near Warkworth, so George and Mary stayed in Warkworth for a few years after their marriage and had two sons before moving to Seaton Sluice sometime between 1835 and 1839 when daughter Margaret was born.
- I've found a few more birth records for George's children. None of them say anything about George beyond his occupation and that he signed his mark rather than a signature.
- And George was in the pub when he suffered a stroke (apoplexy) and died in May 1871.
I also ordered David Henderson's (first son) marriage certificate. I have almost no hope that it will help with father George's birthplace, but miracles do happen.
If I win the lottery I'll consider ordering them for other children!
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There are 18 months and 20 days between the baptisms of George on 23 February 1807 and John on 12 September 1808, and only 14 months and 19 days between the baptism of John and the end of 1809.
So I think you are right to be wary of the Anc* trees (actually, it is always right to be wary of any online tree!).
One thing you can do, if you have access to Anc*, is to look at all the trees there and see what source they cite for George's birth/baptism. Dismiss every tree that cites another tree or a secondary source (e.g. another web site or a book written long after the event), because you know that their authors have just copied someone else, and then see what you are left with. If they don't cite a primary source they cannot be trusted.
Great advice, thank you! I do try to ignore other trees and only add things to mine when I've managed to find other sources myself.
Some of the trees I've seen are absolutely mad!