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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: Wodgemac on Tuesday 16 December 25 21:12 GMT (UK)
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I'm researching my wife's family tree and I'm stuck on Ellen Catherine Evans ancestors
Ellen was born on 13th May 1902, in Llandwrog, Caernarvonshire.
She married Henry Percival Parry in 1923.
I have her parents as William Evans born 1867 in Llandwrog and Margaret Williams born 1874, Llanddeinionlen?? Llandwrog.
I have William's parents as Thomas Evans born 1842 in Llandwrog and Mary Evans born 1847 in Llandwrog.
I have no parents for Margaret Williams though.
Could somebody please confirm I'm on the right track and possibly help me with Margaret Williams parents please?
Thanks in advance
Richard McGrorey
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Do you have the 1923 marriage certificate for details of her father? No middle names are shown on the marriage index.
Do you have her birth certificate for details of both parents?
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Yes, I have copies of certificates.
The marriage:
Henry Parry 19 a bachelor, I think it say's a quarryman, his father Percival Parry. Quarryman?
Ellen Evans 21 a spinster, her father William Evans. Labourer
The marriage was in St. Annes church in Llandegai in the county of Carnarvon.
Witness's were William Baden Powel Evans and Doris Owen???
The birth certificate for 13th May 1902, I have for Ellen says her father was William, a brake man at a slate quarry and her mother Maggie Evans from 5 ?? Bethesda,
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Her entry on the 1939 register & her death entry have no middle name either. No birth reg in the June qtr 1902 for an Ellen Catherine Evans
What document has her middle name as Catherine
1911 has her as Nellie - parents William & Maggie
There is a 3yr old sister Lily - GRO online shows mmn Williams
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Is birth cert definitely Maggie and not Mary? Cert should give maiden name of mother as well.
1911 census with widowed father and her Evans grandparents
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VF-LN4?lang=en
1901 census for older sister Maggie with parents William & Mary
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9BW-168?lang=en
death reg for mother
Mary Evans 33 march qtr 1906 Carnarvon vol 11b pg 302
possible birth reg for sister Maggie
Maggie Evans sept qtr 1900 Carnarvon vol 11b pg 406 mmn Thomas
marriage reg for parents
Mary Thomas sept qtr 1899 Carnarvon vol 11b pg 648 with William Evans on the same page
This entry shows as a civil marriage on North Wales BMD so either non-conformist or registry office.
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Ignore - wrong family.
What is the maiden name given for Maggie?
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Maggies maiden name is Williams...
I'll have to check the notes I have from her aunt to see where the middle name of Catherine came from??
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she’s born in llanddeiniolen in 1901 and appears to have died by 1911.
Have you tried newspaper records for an obituary?
Although the parish is llandwrog the village is talysarn.
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there’s a margaret williams with a father: hugh williams mother: mary
living at parc y wern saron (llanddeiniolen parish)
both parents are from anglesey ( llanddaniel fab and trefdraeth) but margaret is born in llanddeiniolen caernarvonshire. This is the 1881 census.
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Going by birth details 1911 has this family at Llandegai all born Bethesda. Ellen is age 8 down as Nellie a pet name for Ellen. William is a Water Balance Brakeman.
If access, 1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2353/records/919725
1921 same family/area also down as Nellie age 19 yr 1 mth which would fit with a May birthdate as census was in June.
1921 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63151/records/35904471
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Llandegai/
Cas
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1901 there is this family with married daughter Maggie. Going back on census it looks likely father was Simon.
Bethesda
High St
Ellen Williams 53 Head, widow
Ellis Williams 23 Son
Hugh Williams18 Son
Maggie Evans 21 Daughter, married
Robert Williams 13 Son
John Williams 4 Grandchild
1901 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7815/records/33308298
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Likely marriage - David & Mary married each other and can be found in census
Marriages Dec Q 1900
Evans William Bangor 11b 880
Owens David Henry Bangor 11b 880
Pritchard Mary Bangor 11b 880
Williams Maggie Bangor 11b 880
Cas
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Info only
SS
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Baptism
SS
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Going by birth details 1911 has this family at Llandegai all born Bethesda. Ellen is age 8 down as Nellie a pet name for Ellen. William is a Water Balance Brakeman.
If access, 1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2353/records/919725
1921 same family/area also down as Nellie age 19 yr 1 mth which would fit with a May birthdate as census was in June.
1921 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63151/records/35904471
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Llandegai/
Cas
FULLY AGREE with you Cas.
SS
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I would also think that it is more likely from census evidence that the parents of William are this family. Living same area as 1911 census where William gives Coed y parc as pob
1891 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/6897/records/592039
Llandegai
Coed Y Parc
William Evans 46 Head
Mary Evans 46 Wife
Griffith Evans 19 Son
William Evans 16 Son
Mary Eliza Evans 11 Daughter
Marriage for William & Maggie would confirm or rule out.
Cas
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Likely marriage - David & Mary married each other and can be found in census
Marriages Dec Q 1900
Evans William Bangor 11b 880
Owens David Henry Bangor 11b 880
Pritchard Mary Bangor 11b 880
Williams Maggie Bangor 11b 880
Cas
Some addresses given here which might help.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3782019/3782023/81/Maggie%2BOR%2BWilliams?from=search
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Just found English entry. ;)
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3568158/3568166/90/Maggie%2BOR%2BWilliams?from=search
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coed y parc is where felin fawr slate workshop is situated. The railway ran through it.
They have a large waterwheel that was powered from a series of 4 reservoirs.
Not sure if brakeman is related to the railway or the waterwheel.
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Burial 23 November 1889 Glanogwen
Simon Williams 59 abode No 29 Twr Bethesda.
Good of the clerk to be precise with the addresses.
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Just for info..
The nephew with family in 1911 is son of Griffith, brother of William.
Birth reg
EVANS, GRIFFITH RICHARD mmn SAMBIDGE
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 408
Her first marriage
Marriages Mar Q 1902
Ruffles Patrick Bangor 11b 635
Sambidge Rose Ethel Bangor 11b 635
2nd marriage both were widowed
Marriages Sep Q 1906
Evans Griffith Richard Bangor 11b 699
RUFFLES Rose Ethel Bangor 11b 699
Death
EVANS, ROSE ETHEL age 28
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 311
Griffith with older brother Robert & family in 1911
Cas
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I wonder if the mix up of the name Ellen Catherine is husband Henry Parry mother was Catherine Ellen. The Parry family in 1921 are living same area as the Evans family.
There is no evidence she is Ellen Catherine from birthdate from cert, (kindly supplied by SS) or 1939 register birthdate with Henry & family.
The baptism found, came under Glanogwen which was within Bethesda, Twr is an address the Williams family are at in census, so it all seems to fit.
Edit - no Nellie Evans or variant registered Bangor 1902 for June or Sept Q
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Looking at the family in Llandwrog you mention.
1911 William is a Widow with 3 daughters, eldest Maggie is indexed as 44 but is 11 in 1911
1901 for family
Llandwrog
William Evans 33 Head
Mary Evans 27 Wife
Maggie Evans 8 Months Daughter
John Owen 34 Boarder
1901 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7815/records/33237358
Possible
Marriages Sep Q 1899
Evans William Carnarvon 11b 648
Roberts Mary Ann Carnarvon 11b 648
THOMAS Mary Carnarvon 11b 648
WILLIAMS William Trevor Carnarvon 11b 648
Also possible, but there are others
EVANS, MAGGIE mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 11B Page 406
Not finding a birth for Ellen in Llandwrog around May in 1902 reg district Carnavon
Could be born in 3rd Q 1902 registered 1st Q 1903
EVANS, ELLEN mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 11B Page 404
EVANS, ELIZABETH mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 11B Page 394
1921 Llandwrog William Evans is living in Llanllyfni, Caernarvonshire, only Maggie & Lizzy in household unmarried
1921 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/63151/records/35846054
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Thanks everyone.
Looking at the 1871 and 1881 census's for Simon Williams, the ages of a couple of the children don't seem to match up. Did they die and then the parents named future children after them?
With regards to Ellen Catherine being mixed up you could be right Cas, with her being mixed up with Catherine Ellen
For some obscure reason in my tree I have put Mary Evans born c1874 married to William Evans, as Margaret!! But I have the 1901 census with her called Mary?!!!
Richard
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I think that you have mixed 2 families, the one with wife Mary that I had posted then scored out because the Ellen born 13 May 1902 is the daughter of the Maggie Williams married to William Evans, not the daughter of the Mary Thomas married to a different William Evans.
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Thanks everyone.
Looking at the 1871 and 1881 census's for Simon Williams, the ages of a couple of the children don't seem to match up. Did they die and then the parents named future children after them?
With regards to Ellen Catherine being mixed up you could be right Cas, with her being mixed up with Catherine Ellen
For some obscure reason in my tree I have put Mary Evans born c1874 married to William Evans, as Margaret!! But I have the 1901 census with her called Mary?!!!
Richard
The youngest child in 1871 is Ellen not Ellis. Those older have maybe left, working, or possibly died by 1881
WILLIAMS, ELLEN JANE mmn THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 548
Possible marriage
Marriages Sep Q 1869
HUGHES Mary Ann Bangor 11b 655
JONES William Bangor 11b 655
THOMAS Ellen Bangor 11b 655
WILLIAMS Simon Bangor 11b 655
Cas
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There is a possible first marriage for the older children in 1871
Marriages Jun Q 1856
ROBERTS Jane Bangor 11b 896
WILLIAMS Simon Bangor 11b 896
Added - it is possible the first Margaret b 1856 died by 1881. Possibly that is why she was called Maggie. Maybe in memory of first Margaret. Ellen may also wanted to call a daughter Margaret/Maggie.
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I think that you have mixed 2 families, the one with wife Mary that I had posted then scored out because the Ellen born 13 May 1902 is the daughter of the Maggie Williams married to William Evans, not the daughter of the Mary Thomas married to a different William Evans.
Yeah I had the census for Mary attached to Margaret... DOh
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There's a baptism record for a Simon Williams on 19th August 1836 at Llangristiolus, Anglesey
born 15th July 1836 in Newport on Tay, Anglesey.
Parents Hugh Williams and Margt Richards
Is there a good chance this is the same one? I wouldn't have thought Simon was a popular name in Wales??
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I would think so
The baptism gives address of Yard, father Hugh is a lab
There is this 1841 at Trefdraeth, Anglesey address given is Yard.
All born in county
Marget Williams 25 widow
Simon Williams 4
Hugh Williams 2
1841 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8979/records/12926235
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/AGY/Trefdraeth
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the address noted on Simon's baptism is Trefdraeth. It's a non-conformist baptism at Rhosymeiren & Paradwys Independent.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1TV-DNL?lang=en
Newport on Tay is in Scotland
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/Forgan/StMary
1841 census Margaret is a widow
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M77G-C6M?lang=en
1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGVL-Q1X?lang=en
marriage in Llangristiolous 18 March 1835
Hugh Williams of Court, in the parish of Llanidan, to Margaret Pritchard of Erw in Llangristiolous. Witnesses Hugh Jones & William Williams, all marked.
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It said Newport on Tay on the ancestry translation, but it's Trefdraeth on the actual document!! How can they get it so wrong??
I'll order some certificates in the New Year just to confirm
Thanks for all your help
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Just for info
If unaware, instant digital download for some birth & death certs are available from GRO for £3.00.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Trefdraeth
Registration district Anglesey between 1837 - 1852. Then Registration district Bangor from 1852 - 1937