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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: PaulJC on Tuesday 16 December 25 14:37 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to trace the following information on an Edward Philip Collins (born 1816 in Brighton)
- The date and place of his marriage to Lucy (born 1822 in Essex). They had a daughter in 1841 in London
- His parents and any siblings
Collins worked for the Royal Household at various palaces and died in 1903.
Paul
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What was the daughters name?? Have you checked freebmd for a birth registration then used GRO online to determine Lucy’s maiden name?
1851 shows him living alone - occ upholsterer & cabinet maker
1861 working in Osborne Palace Hampshire
Which of their children are you descended from? Look up the child's birth reg as shown above
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He may have married twice - unless it's a coincidence.
An Edward Philip Collins, Widower - married Lucy Whipps Cooper, Spinster - at a Church in Twickenham on 29th Sept 1868.
Hard to distinguish his occupation - something like Superintendent H and C's Household?
Father Edward Collins, Gentleman. His residence at time of his marriage - Whippingham.
This record is amongst London marriages on Ancestry.
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Just to add - there is a Marriage Bond and Allegation for this marriage - London and Surrey Marriage Bonds and Allegations.
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There is a possible first marriage in 1839 of Edward to a Sarah Sheerman. This is the banns but the 1839 marriage on FreeBMD lists his surname as Gilliam rather than Collins
Sarah Sheerman to Edward Phillip Gilliam Collins
Marriage Banns Date 1839 Saint Marylebone: Marylebone Road, Westminster
I think the image attached is the birth of their daughter and she is living with Edward and his second wife in census years after the couple married
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Great find Kay!
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Thanks All,
This makes sense as his daughter Sarah Eliza was born in 1841 and the marriage to Lucy was later so I thought about an earlier marriage.
The name Gilliam is used sometimes as I think it was his mothers maiden name and appears in his and his daughters names.
The occupation that was difficult to distinguished is his role at a royal palace. He trained as an upholsterer so that fits with an early census.
I will try to find more about his parents.
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This burial in Brighton may be an ancestor
Edward Collins Gilliam
Death Age 69 - Kents Court
Burial 25 Nov 1839 - Brighton, Sussex
Parish Brighthelmston
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I think his occupation on 1861 census is tapissier, which is french for upholsterer
Interestingly although the Marylebone banns are for Sheerman and Collins, they actually marry in Brighton on 26 December, where his surname is Gilliam, which is the name in his signature as well. Witness is Edw Gilliam
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Edward Philip Gillam baptised 23 June 1816 son of Edward, a cabinet maker, and Elizabeth
Edward Gillam married ELizabeth Yeates 29 dec 1815 - one witness was E Collins
A later child was baptised Edwin Collins-Gillam. Another daugher has Collins as a middle name. But other children aren't gven the Collins name
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Interesting article on a relative? of Edward Phillips Collins https://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/BTNCaptainCollins.htm
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Death of 1846 of Edward Gilliam Collins father - His occupation as a Cabinet Maker ties in with father's occupation on the 1839 marriage to Sarah Sheerman
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Thanks All,
I am more than a bit confused by the use of the Gillam name.
For clarity, who are we saying is Edward Philips Collins (Born June 2nd 1816 and sometimes used the middle name Gillam) father?
There seems to be two dates for the fathers death 1839 and 1846 or are they different people?
Paul
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Yes appear to be 2 different Edwards,
Edward Collins GILLAM buried 25 Nov 1839 was age 69, abode Kent's Court
So cant be the Edward who witnessed the 26 Dec 1839 Marriage of Edward/Sarah
So the Father Edward died 1846 age 51 as posted by Kay99
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I think the death cert I posted above is the father of your Edward Phillip Gilliam Collins
I think the death cert relates to this Edward Collins/Gilliam and family in 1841 living Bond St Brighton He is listed as a Cab Mak - presumably Cabinet Maker
Edward Collins 46 Sussex
Elizabeth Collins 45 Sussex, England
Henry Collins 21
Alfred Collins 18 -
Albert Collins 8 Sussex
Horace Collins 6 Sussex
I think the 1839 death most probably relates to the father of the Edward who dies in 1846 but completely agree that the interchangeability of the two surnames is most confusing
Added - Agree with Trish
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I think this is the baptism of the Edward Collins Gillam who died in 1846
Edward Gillam
Birth 19 Oct 1794
Baptism 11 Jan 1795 Brighton, Sussex
Denomination Countess of Huntingdon's Connexion
Parents Edward and Sarah Gillam
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Thanks All.
The fog is finally clearing.......By 1841 Edward has left the household and is already employed by the Royal Estates.
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I think this was Edward Phillip Collins in 1841
Edwd Phil Collins 25 Living at Foley St St Marylebone and working as a Cabinet Maker. The same address where his daughter was born in 1840
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And in 1841 his wife Sarah and daughter were visiting her parents living at North St Brighton
Thomas Sherman 45 Appraiser
Jane Sherman 45
Emily Sherman 10
Sarah Collins 20
Sarah Collins 6 months
Sarah's father Thomas Sheerman died in 1847 and his will is on Anc if you have access. His daugher Sarah is left a property in Preston, Sussex for her soul use and benefit
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u4v/
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And in 1841 his wife Sarah and daughter were visiting her parents living at North St Brighton
Thomas Sherman 45 Appraiser
Jane Sherman 45
Emily Sherman 10
Sarah Collins 20
Sarah Collins 6 months
Sarah's father Thomas Sheerman died in 1847 and his will is on Anc if you have access. His daugher Sarah is left a property in Preston, Sussex for her soul use and benefit
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u4v/
Thanks for this. I was searching for Sheerman but spellings can change over time. I dont have access to Ancestry but thanks for the information.
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On the 1841 image for the Sheerman family their surname has been badly overwritten so I am amazed that the transcriber managed to make Sherman out of the image ! :)