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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 11:07 GMT (UK)

Title: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 11:07 GMT (UK)
Hello

Please see attached. I am looking at the entry for Ernest W. Reeves. Above the year 93 is written 99 and next to this a word I can’t make out O B th. Any ideas? Is this supposed to indicate a correction to his year of birth. Also his profession is Railway coy? I have no idea what a Railway coy? might be.

Thank you
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 11 December 25 11:17 GMT (UK)
I believe it says his occupation is a Vanman with a railway company.
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 11 December 25 11:18 GMT (UK)
Not sure about the date query - FindMyPast give date of birth as 15 November 1899 in their transcription.  Occupation is a Van Man for a Railway Co(mpan)y.
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Gillg on Thursday 11 December 25 11:28 GMT (UK)
Occupation Railway boy, I think, then Van Man. Can't read the faint letters above, though, which seem to link with the 99 entry.
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: garden genie on Thursday 11 December 25 11:36 GMT (UK)
Standard civil service practice would be for the OBA to be the initials or reference of the person making the change of date, when a correction came in from elsewhere in the NHS. I still find myself initialing things I have done occasionally and I left the civil service nearly 40 years ago!
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 11 December 25 11:39 GMT (UK)
Did his declared age in 1939 affect whether he may have been called up for military service?
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: JenB on Thursday 11 December 25 11:39 GMT (UK)
Agree with Neale and BB - the occupation is Railway Co[mpan]y Van Man
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 12:36 GMT (UK)
Thank you everyone lots of useful information there. Therefore the consensus is that he was born 1899 and was a Van Man for a railway company. The 1939 register extract is from 10 Kingston Road, Cardiff

Current thinking is that the Douglas B Reeves with him is his illegitimate son David Bryant Reeves born 1930 Llanelly as David Bryant, son of Violet Elva Bryant (1910). David going on to marry a Valerie Isadora Williams.

I have been trying to find more about Ernest with no success. There is no Ernest “W” Reeves birth registered in Dec Qtr 1899 or Mar Qtr 1900. Ernest in 1939 state he was married and there is a marriage of an Ernest Walter Reeves to a Sarah Miriam Russ in 1918, in Cardiff, they had a son also called Ernest Walter 1918, who baptism address was 14 Station Road Cardiff, who died later the same year. Whether this is the same Ernest I don’t know. I can’t find the couple in 1921 or any obvious candidates for Ernest W Reeves in earlier censuses.
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 11 December 25 15:51 GMT (UK)
The Ernest who married Sarah Ruff was a soldier according to their son's baptism in 1918, have you checked CWGC website in case he died.
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 11 December 25 16:55 GMT (UK)

I have been trying to find more about Ernest with no success. There is no Ernest “W” Reeves birth registered in Dec Qtr 1899 or Mar Qtr 1900.

Ernest in 1939 state he was married and there is a marriage of an Ernest Walter Reeves to a Sarah Miriam Russ in 1918, in Cardiff, they had a son also called Ernest Walter 1918, who baptism address was 14 Station Road Cardiff, who died later the same year.


For info.

Alfred George Reeves
Ernest Walter Reeves
Residence Date   1918
Residence Street Address   14 Station Road.
Residence Place   Glamorgan, Wales
Parliamentary Division   Llandaff and Barry Division

Could Alfred George Reeves be a brother or his father ?

Ernest Walter Reeves
Sarah Miriam Reeves
Residence Date   1924
Residence Street Address   31 Monachty Road
Residence Place   Glamorgan, Wales
Parliamentary Division   Llandaff and Barry Division
Images to view on Anc*y , Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978





Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 17:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you Rosie99 and Ladyhawk, both great finds. I’ll follow up on them. I can’t find Ernest in the CWGC site. The attached is potentially him, but I don’t have Fold3 membership, but these cards rarely show more info.

That they are both still in the Llandaff area in 1924 indicates they should be in the 1921 census but I can’t find them. I have managed to find who was at 14 Station Road in 1921 but it wasn’t them.

Confusingly there is another Ernest Walter Rees around but he was a Baker of Newport who married an Elizabeth Sarah Lewis in Dec 1918
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 17:27 GMT (UK)
I also managed to find the attached. A possible reference to the sad death of his wife, but I need to pull in a favour from a friend to see the full article. Surprisingly I can’t find an appropriate reference to her death in the GRO
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Jool on Thursday 11 December 25 17:44 GMT (UK)
I was just looking at the same article...
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 18:08 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much for this. A very sad tale, This therefore looks to be the other Ernest Walter Rees mentioned.
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 11 December 25 19:38 GMT (UK)

That they are both still in the Llandaff area in 1924 indicates they should be in the 1921 census but I can’t find them. I have managed to find who was at 14 Station Road in 1921 but it wasn’t them.


I can’t locate them either in 1921 either ???

Another possible entry for them on the ER unless there’s another couple with same names

Ernest Walter Reeves
Sarah Miriam Reeves
Residence Date   1933
Street Address   Greenway Vach, Greenway Road
Parish Rumney
Gwent, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1969
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Thursday 11 December 25 20:03 GMT (UK)
Very frustrating that they don’t seem to be in the 1921 census. Great find in 1933, it must be them
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Friday 19 December 25 16:02 GMT (UK)
I think I may have solved it, but please feel free to disagree.

I took a punt and ordered the marriage certificate of Ernest Walter Reeves and Sarah Miriam Russ they married 05 Jan 1918 at Cardiff registry office. He was a Private age 23 in the South Lancashire Regiment, his address was 16 Station Road, her's was 14 Station Road (she was age 24). His father was Frank Reeves a farm Labourer, hers was Charles Robert Russ a Blacksmith.

I found Walter in 1901 and 1911 with his parents and siblings. His mother was an Emily Smith. In 1901 his brother Albert Reeves (Albert George Reeves) is with him born about 1892.

A copy of of Ernest’s birth certificate reveals his DOB as 15 Nov 1894. In 1939 it is given as 15 Nov 1893, I think there is a year error in 1939. The potential YOB correction in the 1939 register to 99 I believe is an error.

He possibly died in 1959 in Cardiff. I can’t find a death for Sarah Miriam
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Friday 19 December 25 16:07 GMT (UK)
Ernest possibly married a second time to an Elizabeth/ Elsie Maud Herniman in 1957 in Cardiff. She is entered as Elizabeth Jellings, I believe she was previously married to a Ellis Arthur Jellings in 1916 in Roath, Cardiff
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 20 December 25 14:20 GMT (UK)

I think I may have solved it, but please feel free to disagree.

I took a punt and ordered the marriage certificate of Ernest Walter Reeves and Sarah Miriam Russ they married 05 Jan 1918 at Cardiff registry office. He was a Private age 23 in the South Lancashire Regiment, his address was 16 Station Road, her's was 14 Station Road (she was age 24). His father was Frank Reeves a farm Labourer, hers was Charles Robert Russ a Blacksmith.


Thank you for posting the details - her baptism is on Anc*y

Miriam Sarah RUSS Born 24 Oct 1891
Baptism 6 Dec 1891 Warrington, St. Elphin
Father Charles Robert Russ, blacksmith Mother Eliza Elizabeth
image on Anc*y

Not sure but her birth may have been registered as Miriam Elizabeth Russ  :-\

RUSS, MIRIAM  ELIZABETH    mmn HUNT 
GRO Reference: 1891  D Quarter in WARRINGTON  Volume 08C  Page 244

1891 census
Piece   3738
Folio   8
Page number   7
20 Monmouth Street, Salford
Charles Russ 37 Head occ blacksmith
Eliza 35 Wife
Alice M 15 Daughter
Mable E 13 Daughter
Eliza E 11 Daughter
SARAH M 9 Daughter born Warrington, Lancashire
Minnie  7 Daughter
May 4 Daughter
Mary H 1 Daughter

1911 SARAH Russ is with her parents Charles Robert & Eliza Elizabeth Russ  plus siblings living 87 New Park Rd Salford, her parents are still in Salford in 1921

Image to view on Anc*y
Marriage 17 Aug 1884 Mangotsfield, St James, Gloucestershire
Charles Robert RUSS 22 blacksmith  Father John Russ, haulier
Eliza Elizabeth HUNT 20 father William Hunt, haulier

Charles age 63 remarried 15 Sep 1928 Ordsall, St Cyprian Salford, Lancashire - image on Anc*y

I can’t find a death for Sarah Miriam

I've not found anything either  :-\

There is a death Jun 1982 Sandwell for a Sarah Reeves dob 26 Oct 1891 but I think she was nee Marson and married William Simms Reeves
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 20 December 25 14:36 GMT (UK)

Ernest possibly married a second time to an Elizabeth/ Elsie Maud Herniman in 1957 in Cardiff. She is entered as Elizabeth Jellings, I believe she was previously married to a Ellis Arthur Jellings in 1916 in Roath, Cardiff


There is a 1976 burial of a Elsie Maud JELLINGS https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/279321497/elsie-maud-jellings
husband died 1949 - they have the same plot number
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/279321496/ellis-arthur-jellings

Elsie Maud Jellings Dec 1976 death registration gives her dob 24 Mar 1895 same as entry on 1939 register.

I think you would need to obtain the 1957 marriage certificate to see what is reveals about Ernest  & Elizabeth

There is this possible entry Elizabeth year 1956
Parliamentary Division   Cardiff North
Glamorganshire, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978

and a possible entry for Ernest & Elizabeth year 1957
Residence Place   Glamorgan, Wales Parliamentary Division North
Glamorganshire, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978 - you can view the images on Anc*y
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 20 December 25 15:27 GMT (UK)
roycymru

One to keep in mind if the 1957 marriage shows Elizabeth as a widow and names her father as Charles Burnett
   
Richard Jellings
Marriage    28 Aug 1919 Cardiff
Document Date   1921
Residence Place   35 Harrowbys St Cardiff
Military Date   1921
Regimental Number   2204800
Regiment Name   Royal Engineers
Number of Images   4
Form Title   Attestation
Elizabeth May Burnett Spouse
2 children (not added their names as not checked out deaths)
Husband Richard Francis Jellings died 1941

1921 Elizabeth M Jellings b 1899 Cove Devon living Cardiff, Glamorganshire

1956 ER entry there are two other persons with Elizabeth M Jellings surname Morgan same two with Elizabeth M Reeves in 1961 (no Ernest) - I believe this to be her married daughter and her husband

Elizabeth Jellings is listed as May E Jellings b 28 Mar 1899 on 1939 register living Cardiff

Elizabeth Mary Burnett born 28 Mar 1899
Baptism 30 Apr 1899 Tiverton Cove, Devon
Religion   Anglican
Father   Charles Burnett Mother   Annie

BURNETT, ELIZABETH  MAY     mmn DEAN 
GRO Reference: 1899  J Quarter in TIVERTON  Volume 05B  Page 399

ADDED - death of Elizabeth

Sep 1974  S Glamorgan 28   1521
Elizabeth May REEVES born  28MR1899   

her burial
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/279377282/elizabeth-may-reeves
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Saturday 20 December 25 15:46 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much, lots of excellent information, i’ll follow it up
Title: Re: Help deciphering info in the 1939 Register
Post by: roycymru on Saturday 20 December 25 18:14 GMT (UK)
You would not have thought there that many Jellings around! Elizabeth May Jellings (nee Burnett) seems the more likely second wife of Ernest (assuming it’s him).

This is the findagrave entry for Ernest Walter Reeves, he is of the correct sort of age

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/289805619/ernest-walter-reeves