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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: BronwenS on Sunday 07 December 25 03:34 GMT (UK)
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Morena
I have the transcribed will of Richard Jeale from 1571. However there are gaps in it, I realise the original is very poor, but if there is anything else anyone can see that would be much appreciated.
This is the family.
Richard Jeale (1520c) Nutfield married Elizabeth 1546c and they had eight children: William Jeale 1547c, Nicholas Jeale 1550c Nutfield, Richard Jeale 1552c-5 May 1593 (c.John Jeale) Dorking WILL, Margaret Jeale 1556c Nutfield (m.Robert Rutter, c.Henry Rutter), Elizabeth Jeale 1558c Nutfield, Alice Jeale 1561c Nutfield, Joane Jeale 18 September 1558 Nutfield (m.William Farnelley a carpenter of Arundell, Sussex c.Thomas Farnelley, Joan Farnelley) John Jeale 2 June 1566 Woolborough, Nutfield (m.Joan Wells 8 September 1593).
Richard Jeale of Woolborough, Nutfield died 14 April 1571. WILL
Elizabeth Jeale died 22 February 1596 St Peter & St Paul, Woolborough, Nutfield, Surrey.
Bronwen Summers
Otautahi, Aotearoa
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That's a very fuzzy image of the actual will Bronwen.
Can you do it in, say, thirds and get a bigger file for each?
It's imposible to decipher the minute differences between letters.
Not sure why it's a pdf? we usually post jpegs for an image.
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Thanks - three sections this time.
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Not much better Bronwen! ;)
You haven't got the breaks of the lines of your transcription matched up with the lines of the actual will.
It's always helpful if you can look at a transcription and say 'oh yes, that's on line 12'. say.
You can't do this with what you have done, which makes it even more difficult to find the bits you're asking about.
I think the bit on line 6 of the will about where he wants to be buried says
'church or churchyard of my parish aforesaid'.
Where did you find the will?
There has to be a better copy of it than this.
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I have had it for a longtime and I have no idea where it came from. And if there was a better copy I would have put it up.
If I remember correctly you live in Tamaki Makaurau and you told me off another time for not trying hard enough! So please just leave it thank you.
Nga mihi
Bronwen
Otautahi / Aotearoa.
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I've done those unfinished parts of Image 1 in which I have reasonable confidence of my accuracy, as follows:
...It(em) I wyll to Elsebeth my wyffe vj of my kene In deferent ly to be chosen by my ? ...
all soo I wyll to Elsebeth my wyff my besst bed & all yt be longes to hym & vj payer of shet ?
she left to chosse allso I wyll to hyr ye thyrd part of ye rest of all my houshould stuff for hyr to ? ...
...chyldren as she shall se good & when she shall plesse and hyr for to have too ?
ADDED:
In deferent ly = Indifferently
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In Reply #5 I think it is:
...to be chosen by my ovesers...
Meaning is: overseers
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Some offered with reasonable confidence; some less so, as follows:
...Rychard my sun on lesse ? ?ly ffarme whych lyethe in [catram?/eatram?] p(ar)ysh...
...before ye date of ye lesse be expered & un?
then my wyll is yt Johe my sun ^childe^ shall have ye lese be fore exspressed It(em) I wyll to
Rychard my sun vj oxen in deferent ly chosen out? by my oveseers all soo I gyve to
rychard my sun lx young shyp It(em) I geve to Rychard my sun all ye wodes apon hys farme?
? in haryschelle?
NOTE ADDED:
Where I had transcribed syn I have changed it to sun, for the reason stated at the bottom of Reply #8.
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There's a gap in the images for the bequest to (according to the transcript) John the elder.
Picking up at the bequest to nycolas my sun*:
...& lands w(i)t(h) ye apertenans yt is fry houlld lying
& beyng in ye p(ar)is of darkyng to hym & hys eyers for ever [= free hold]
It(em) to alles my daster I geve & bequeff x l of good & lafull...
...to marget my daster vj l xiij s iiij d of good & lafull mony of Inglan...
...& he to se me onestly buryed
The second overseer may be something like: Rychard Ky? of buggates
The overseers are: to have ^for ther paynes^ vs a pesse
* I have realised that the writer sometimes uses a u/v which looks like a faint version of a y.
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A huge thanks for all of this, I will put it all together and see what it then looks like and check whether I have left a gap between any of the paragraphs I picked up from the document.
Much appreciated
Bronwen Summers
Otautahi / Aotearoa
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Morena
I did indeed leave 3 paragraphs out - apologies for this, I have attached that now. I have put the other parts together with a few queries which I will send once this is hopefully sorted. I do have a lot of Jeale wills including two of his sons. Some of the places mentioned in those two, 1593 & 1596, and his father's will of 1539 are: Shepperton, Ewhurst, Dorking, Wolbergh, Charlwood, Woolborough, Nutfield, Chipstead Mead, Hunts and Moores Crofts, Charters Croft, Norlands Croft.
Nga mihi nui (very best wishes)
Bronwen Summers
Otautahi, Aotearoa
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I did indeed leave 3 paragraphs out...
I think only one bequest/paragraph was missing from the original images: that for: ...John ^the elder^ my sun...
The words in this bequest missing from the transcript are:
...to be payd to hym by ye handes
of my exseceter at ye ayge...
exseceter = executor
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Pomare (well it should be Morena, assuming you live in the UK)
I am attaching everything I now have from you I think. Can you please have a read through.
Much appreciated
Bronwen
Otautahi Aotearoa
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To start with, there are a couple of issues with the original transcript which I didn't look at because they weren't marked with questions. I also have thoughts regarding the parish in line 2 but will put them in another post.
In line 1 it is:
...viij daye of Apprell in the yere...
Transcript has August.
In line 5/6 it is:
...to be buried
w(i)t(h) in the Churche or Churche yard of my p(ar)ysh aforesayd...
This was covered in goldie's Reply #3.
In line 6/7 it is:
...mother Churche
of wynchesster iiij...
I'm not familiar with the symbol associated with this number. The same symbol appears at the end of this line for the amount given to the poure mens chest.
Can anyone shed light on this?
Then there are a couple of sections for individuals which aren't quite right.
************************************************************************************************
These are the first two lines of Elsebeth's section. The rest of her section is OK.
It(em) I wyll to Elsebeth my wyffe vj of my kene In deferent ly to be chosen by my ovesers
all soo I wyll to Elsebeth my wyff my besst bed & all yt be longes to hym & vj payer of shet ?
************************************************************************************************
Rychard's section is a little confused. Here it is in total.
It(em) I wyll to Rychard my sun on lesse ? ?ly ffarme whych lyethe in [catram?/eatram?] p(ar)ysh
& iff it happen ye sayd Rychard to desese before ye date of ye lesse be expered & un?
then my wyll is yt John my sun ^childe^ shall have ye lese be fore exspressed It(em) I wyll to
Rychard my sun vj oxen in deferent ly chosen out by my oveseers all soo I gyve to
rychard my sun lx young shyp It(em) I geve to Rychard my sun all ye wodes apon hys farme ?
? in haryschelle?
************************************************************************************************
You have the bequest to nycolas right but you have stuck a section from Rychard's bequest on at the end.
Nycolas's bequest ends at the words for ever. Then comes the bequest to alles.
************************************************************************************************
From there on I think all is OK.
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Regarding the parish, I don't see anything like Ewehurst or ___hurst.
After Rychard J's name* I believe it is:
...of p(ar)ys of nutf?ll...
Or something similar.
I saw your mention of Nutfield. This is possible, although the t isn't as clear as I'd like.
* That's another story but I can't add to what you have.
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I made a clip focussing on the parish but omitted to post it with the previous post.
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oh dear, I have no idea but I have written and attached the new (final)ndocument twice but it won't send, the file is not too large.
Anyway down to it. Found his name:
Richard Kyllycke of buggates - possibly Banstead? they lived there, other possibilities Burwash, Burrough, they also lived in Horley. The word Burgage comes up in the 50 page document, but the meaning of it makes it pretty unlikely.
I looked again at the original - frankly I couldn't make anything out of it, but he did live in Nutfield!
There are two things I wondered about - do you the meaning of these:
ovesers ... ...chyldren as she?
I gyve to Wyllyam my sun home?
In the name of God Amen the viii daye of Apprell in the yere of our Lorde God 1571 I Rychard Jeae/Jule of p(ar)ys of nutf?ll..in the Countie of Surrey beinge sycke of bodye but hole & pffecte of mynd & good remembrance thanckes be to Almyghtie God doe make & ordayne thys my psent testament & last wyll in man and forme followynge. Fyrste I bequeath my Sowle to Almyghtie God my only saviour & redemer and my boddy to be buried w(i)t(h) in the Churche or Churche yard of my p(ar)ysh aforesayd...
Item I bequeath to the mother Churche of wynchesster iiij...
Item I bequeath the poore mens chest of my foresayd pishe xiid. …
t(em) I wyll to Elsebeth my wyffe vj of my kene In deferent ly to be chosen by my ovesers all soo
I wyll to Elsebeth my wyff my besst bed & all yt be longes to hym & vj payer of shet ?
she left to chosse allso I wyll to hyr ye thyrd part of ye rest of all my houshould stuff for hyr to be chosen by my ovesers ... ...chyldren as she shall se good & when she shall plesse and hyr for to have too ?
It(em) I wyll to Rychard my sun on lesse ? ?ly ffarme whych lyethe in [catram?/eatram?] p(ar)ysh & iff it happen ye sayd Rychard to desese before ye date of ye lesse be expered & un?
then my wyll is yt John my sun ^childe^ shall have ye lese be fore exspressed
It(em) I wyll to Rychard my sun vj oxen in deferent ly chosen out by my oveseers all soo
I gyve to rychard my sun lx young shyp It(em) I geve to Rychard my sun all ye wodes apon hys farme ? in haryschelle?
It(em) I wyll to John the elder my sun xl of laful mony of Ingland to be payd to hym by ye handes of my exseceter (executor) at ye ayge of xxi yeres or at ye daye of hys marage if he happen to mary before ye ayge of xxi yeres.
It(em) I wyll to Nycolas my sun my tenement & lands w(i)t(h) ye apertenans yt is fry houlld lying & beyng in ye p(ar)is of darkyng to hym & hys eyers for ever [= free hold].
It(em) to alles my daster I geve & bequeff x l of good & lafull mony of Ingland to be payde to her by ye handes of my exectyr at ye daye of hyr marage.
It(em) I wyll to Agnes my daster xl of good & lafyl mony of Ingland to be payd to hyr by ye handes of my executyr at ye daye of hyr marage.
It(em) I wyll to marget my daster vj l xiij s iiij d of good & lafull mony of Inglan to be payd to hyr by ye handes of my executyr at ye daye of hyr maryge.
It(em) I wyll to Elizabeth my dafter vil xiiis iiiid of good & lafyll mony of Ingland to be payd to hyr by ye handes of my executyr at ye daye of hyr marag.
All ye residue of my goodes & catelles not geven nor bequesst I gyve to Wyllyam my sun home
I ordayne my holle execuryr of this my last wyll & testament & he to se me onestly buryed.
It(em) I wyll & ordayne John Wodman of Estgrynsted & Richard Kyllycke of buggates to be my over seers of thys my last wyll & testament & they to have ^for ther paynes^ vs a pesse & ther charges borne.
Wytnes of thys testament John Wodman & John Farley here of.
My very grateful thanks for all the work you have done on this.
Bronwen
Aotearoa
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There are two things I wondered about - do you the meaning of these:
ovesers ... ...chyldren as she?
I gyve to Wyllyam my sun home?
1. Regarding the first, I was mistaken when I said the rest of her (Elsebeth's) section is OK. Here is the whole of her section:
It(em) I wyll to Elsebeth my wyffe vj of my kene In deferent ly to be chosen by my ovesers all soo
I wyll to Elsebeth my wyff my besst bed & all yt be longes to hym & vj payer of shet ?
she left to chosse allso I wyll to hyr ye thyrd part of ye rest of all my houshould stuff for hyr to ?
? chyldren as she shall se good & when she shall plesse and hyr for to have too ?
Unfortunately some of the words next to the margins aren't legible.
2. Regarding the second, the word home is correct as written in the original.
Here it means whom, so the phrase should be read (in modern parlance): ...William my son whom I ordain...
Note that the word sun in this phrase is written: Sune
Finally, one thing I just noticed - the transcript has a word missing from the very last line. The three lines for the witnesses at the end are:
wytnes of thys testament
John wodman & John ffarley
wryter hereof
ADDED:
I suspect your problem posting the transcript is that needs a unique filename each time.
The best way around this is to add a version number to the filename (v1.0, v1.1, v1.2, v2.0 etc) which can be changed each time.
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With many many thanks.
I know about the file name and had changed it each time, they must be hanging around in the ether somewhere.
Pomare
Bronwen
Aotearoa