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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Steve3180 on Tuesday 02 December 25 12:26 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Steve3180 on Tuesday 02 December 25 12:26 GMT (UK)
This is a request for anybody who has access to FindMyPast or The Genealogist or BMDRegisters (or indeed is sitting in Kew right now).
I am looking at an image from Non-Conformist baptisms at Masborough Independent Church (RG4/3736) on Ancestry and it seems to me that the bottom entry has been missed by the camera on the page for 1820 and other pages.
I have sent a query to the TNA but in the meantime could anybody with any of the subscriptions above look at the image on those sites and see if it's the same ? The bottom entry I see is Decr. 20th, William Swan, born Aug 27th 1815.
The header page on Ancestry shows a filming in 1986 at the PRO.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 02 December 25 13:10 GMT (UK)
Just checked on FindMyPast and it's the same. Chopped off at the bottom.

Looking at the first pages of the book, there are 20 lines, with one line sometimes used as a subheading giving the year.

Only 19 on the page you mention.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Jon_ni on Tuesday 02 December 25 13:16 GMT (UK)
Same Filming and image on FindMyPast split over 2 pages, child & dates on left parents + surname + abode on right c/w PRO slip. Bottom of pages missing.
https://findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=TNA/RG4/BAP/1204180
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Steve3180 on Tuesday 02 December 25 14:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that. That's what I figured 20 lines a page. If you look at the last column on the right hand page they are all signed by the minister James Bennett and below the last visible line you can see the top of the J, B, and two tt's on some pages, implying a further entry.
The last entry that I was interested in was William Swan who was baptised some years after he was born and I think (hope) there may be another sibling below him.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Pennines on Tuesday 02 December 25 15:04 GMT (UK)
Same on The Genealogist also -- so sorry.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 02 December 25 15:28 GMT (UK)
I've reported it to Anc as a problem with the image.  They might rescan at some point?

Who holds the originals and can the public make an appointment to see them?

Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Steve3180 on Tuesday 02 December 25 15:35 GMT (UK)
Val, all the Non-Conformist records are held at the National Archive in Kew (although probably off site). It is their microfilm that Ancestry and others show. From past experience they won't produce originals if a film exists unless you have a really good reason, however they may do a re-film if they agree with me. I've sent them a query and we'll see what happens. I had a slight hope that other sites had a different filming than Ancestry but it appears not.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 02 December 25 16:40 GMT (UK)
I'll be near Kew archives in late Dec so could order up the originals to view if the opening hours suit.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Steve3180 on Tuesday 02 December 25 17:04 GMT (UK)
Val, that would be great. Please don't put yourself out though, it's a bit of a longshot that the missing record is that of Elizabeth Swan, it's just been niggling at me since I realised the bottom line was missing.
If I get a positive response from my query to TNA I'll let you know.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: MollyC on Tuesday 02 December 25 17:13 GMT (UK)
I recently ordered a re-scanning of one page which took about two months.  They seemed to take it seriously, even though it was just legible, but out of focus.  (It was from a free-download pdf of an RAF Operations Book.)  It's worth pointing out to TNA that yours affects more than one page, so they will probably check it while they have the volume to hand.
By the way, the correct spelling of the place-name is Masbrough.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 02 December 25 18:02 GMT (UK)
Val, that would be great. Please don't put yourself out though, it's a bit of a longshot that the missing record is that of Elizabeth Swan, it's just been niggling at me since I realised the bottom line was missing.
If I get a positive response from my query to TNA I'll let you know.

No problem. I'll be nearby in mid-Dec and also just love visiting TNA.  It's such an attractive site.  I'll try ordering up the original for the reasons given. Before I go, I'll have to create a little wishlist for myself too.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: jonwarrn on Tuesday 02 December 25 20:52 GMT (UK)
I'll be nearby in mid-Dec and also just love visiting TNA.  It's such an attractive site.  I'll try ordering up the original for the reasons given.

For your benefit, possible supporting evidence?
Charles Adams baptised 21 October 1819, Masbrough, may be missing from images 12, 13
Doesn't seem to be indexed on findmypast or ancestry, but it is on FamilySearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMLN-LN5

Images cut off after baptism of Emma Makin, 17 October 1819

So as TNA is a FamilySearch affiliate library you can look at the digitised microfilm on FamilySearch on the computers at Kew.

Births and baptisms of Masbrough, Independent Church, 1758-1837
Microfilm 828144 Items 11-12
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/koha:296116

Apparently filmed by the LDS in 1969

But FS do not index an Elizabeth Swan baptism at Masbrough circa 1820.
Only Elizabeth Swann in 1797, that one is on the pay sites.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ1B-79Q
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 02 December 25 22:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I’ll order up the register on the grounds of poor scans and have  LDS as backup if they can’t/won’t provide them.

That reminds me that there are a few LDS records I could do with checking as I’ve relied on transcripts. And we know that’s not a good idea!
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Steve3180 on Thursday 04 December 25 12:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the FamilySearch input Jon, it was always a long shot on Elizabeth Swan.

I've compared the Ancestry and FamilySearch results for Dec 20 1820 at Masbrough and it looks like Hannah Wright daughter to Mark & Sarah is the missing entry at the bottom of the page.

Ah well, I'll keep looking, if a rescan  is done it will help others in the future. I wonder how many of our brick walls are just missing entries on scans of records that will one day come to light.

[Edit]
PS. Cancel that, I've just found Hannah Wright in the middle of the 1819 entries. Now I'm just confused.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 04 December 25 14:26 GMT (UK)
Hi
If there is a missing entry on that page, then we can hope that Val (if she can get to Kew) will fill us in on who it is!
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 04 December 25 14:37 GMT (UK)
Edit: The NA has asked for more info on specific pages to decide whether I can see the original. I’ll ask them about LDS scans. If they can see complete scanning then I’ll access them online while there instead.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 14 December 25 14:05 GMT (UK)
TNA have agreed to retrieve the original records since the scans are skewiff on the three usual sites, as people have already discovered.  But they said they would not be re-scanning.

I'll be going next week.
Title: Re: Missing lines on Non-Conformist Baptism records ?
Post by: Steve3180 on Sunday 14 December 25 20:53 GMT (UK)
Val,
That's great. I also got a reply from an officer at TNA who said she could authorise viewing. I was going to contact you to pass your details on to her, but you beat me to it.

Steve