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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: gnorman on Sunday 30 November 25 21:27 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I have been looking at the Dale branch of my family tree and wondered if anyone could help me at all with Elizabeth Hogan.
The earliest record I have for her is a marriage record from 11th July 1885. She was recorded as being aged 22 at the time and living at 25 Water Street in Bolton. Her father is listed on the certificate as Thomas Hogan a deceased shoe maker. She married Mark Dale, a 21 year old bachelor living at 21 Water Street. The witnesses were Nathanial & Sarah Fletcher - I have no idea who they were.
I have all the census results for the family after their marriage when they moved to Oldham, but no mention of any Hogan's anywhere else down the line. I have nothing else on the Hogan family so anything at all would be great.
Thanks, Luke
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Her place of birth seems to vary a bit
1891 - Bollington, Cheshire
1901 & 1911 - Ashton, Lancs
Daughter Agnes has a Roman Catholic baptism in Stockport. Elizabeth's maiden name there is given as Lynch, and the god parents are Thomas and Agnes Lynch
Later censuses also suggest her dob is nearer 1866 than the 1863 suggested by her marriage
1881 possible? IN Oldham
Thomas Lynch 32 b Stockport
Mary A. Lynch 32 b Irish Sea
Eliza Lynch 14 Daughter b Ashton
Mary Lynch 9
Thomas Lynch 7
John Lynch 4
Agnes Lynch 2
James Lynch
Can't work out the Hogan link yet
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Thank you Mabel
I have birth certificates for all of Elizabeth's kids - John Thomas Dale and Sarah Dale's certificates say mother's maiden name is Morgan. For the rest of the kids its recorded as Hogan so she must have been married twice but she is recorded as a spinster in her wedding to Mark Dale and I don't have another marriage record.
Thanks, Luke
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She married Mark Dale, a 21 year old bachelor living at 21 Water Street.
The age for both is 22, but Mark was born in 1855 so he was actually 30.
I have birth certificates for all of Elizabeth's kids - John Thomas Dale and Sarah Dale's certificates say mother's maiden name is Morgan.
You haven't said how you have reconciled the fact that John Thomas and Sarah Ann were born long before the DALE/HOGAN marriage when Elizabeth HOGAN would have been a child.
I think that Mark married firstly to Elizabeth MORGAN in 1874 and secondly to Elizabeth HOGAN in 1885, which is why you have two different surnames.
Debra :)
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1881 possible? IN Oldham
Thomas Lynch 32 b Stockport
Mary A. Lynch 32 b Irish Sea
Eliza Lynch 14 Daughter b Ashton
Mary Lynch 9
Thomas Lynch 7
John Lynch 4
Agnes Lynch 2
James Lynch
I think that Eliza is Mary Ann's daughter. The other LYNCH children have mother's maiden surname as DALEY.
HOGAN, ELIZA
Mother's maiden surname: DALEY
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in ASHTON UNDER LYNE Volume 08D Page 363
Debra :)
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There is a possible marriage for Hogan/Daley that may fit above birth registration for Eliza.
Marriages Dec Q 1865 - 2 others on page
Daley Mary Ann Ashton Under Lyne 8d 952
Hogan Patrick Ashton 8d 952
Lancs OPC - Marriage: 12 Oct 1865 St Mary, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire
Patricium Hogan - 56 Old Street, Ashton under Lyne
Mariam Annam Daley - Ashton under Lyne
Groom's Parents: Joannis Hogan & Annae (formerly Macarty)
Bride's Parents: Patricii Daley & Elisae (formerly Ormsby)
Witnesses: Patricio Daley, ex 56 Old Street, Ashton under Lyne
Elisa Daley, ex 56 Old Street, Ashton under Lyne
Married by B. G. De Mullewie, Misss. Coadr.
Register: Marriages 1857 - 1887, Entry 6. Source: Original Register
The Daley family can be found in 1861/1871 at Old Street, father Patrick is a shoemaker. Mother is Eliza, parents born Ireland.
1861 if access - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8767/records/9337620
Cas
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Thank you all, this is very fascinating stuff. I have ordered the wedding certificate for Mark and Elizabeth in the hope it sheds some light.
I have to admit to still being confused by the Hogan connection - could it be (& please forgive me if I've completely missed it) that Mary Ann Lynch adopted the name after her mother remarried but was originally called Hogan?
Thanks, Luke
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I think Eliza was Hogan at birth. Married as Hogan and children births maiden name is Hogan.
Looks like sometime before 1881 census, likely mother Mary Ann nee Daley was with Thomas Lynch. I cannot locate marriage for couple so maybe still married to Hogan?
The birth registration above for Eliza mmn Daley is available as an instant digital download for £3.00. worth a look maybe?
Added - the Lynch name was to fit with family. She knew her name was Hogan. I don't think her mother married Mr Lynch, maybe still married to first husband?
Cas
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Maybe they managed to marry a bit later on
Q2 1884 Ashton 8d 843
BUCKLEY Amelia Ann
HOGAN Mary Ann
LYNCH Thomas
Noel Osmond Ogier
Osmond and Amelia married, so Thomas and Mary Ann are definitely the other couple
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Good spot Mabel, did not look further than census. ::)
There is a possible death in Ashton Sept Q 1882 for Patrick Hogan age 42, wonder if it's him?
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Good spot Mabel, did not look further than census. ::)
There is a possible death in Ashton Sept Q 1882 for Patrick Hogan age 42, wonder if it's him?
There's a married Patrick Hogan b Ireland c1840 in barracks in Ashton on the 1881 census. Staff sergeant 6th Royal Lancs Miltia
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The birth certificate for Eliza Hogan reads:
Date & Place of Birth: 10th September 1866, 15 Enville Street, Ashton Under Lyne
Name: Eliza Hogan, female
Father: Patrick Hogan
Mother: Mary Ann Hogan nee Daley
Father’s Occupation: Shoemaker
Informant: Mary Ann Hogan, Mother, Union Workhouse, Ashton Under Lyne
Reported on: 17th October 1866
Thank you everyone!
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The birth certificate for Eliza Hogan reads:
Date & Place of Birth: 10th September 1866, 15 Enville Street, Ashton Under Lyne
Name: Eliza Hogan, female
Father: Patrick Hogan
Mother: Mary Ann Hogan nee Daley
Father’s Occupation: Shoemaker
Informant: Mary Ann Hogan, Mother, Union Workhouse, Ashton Under Lyne
Reported on: 17th October 1866
Thank you everyone!
Looking through this again (away from all of the excitement of the find) I realise that the birth certificate, rather than proving my link, actually disproves it. The occupation fits with the wedding certificate mentioned in the original post is correct but the same wedding certificate states that my Elizabeth Hogan's father is called Thomas and not Patrick.
I know you've all worked really hard on all of this and I really appreciate that. It looks like it must be a different family that I'm looking for. Esp confusing is the Lynch connection for the baptism of Elizabeth's daughter.
Thank you, Luke
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I wouldn't count her out. It's not unknown for people to combined their birth and stepfather's names on a marriage cert, especially if she was young when her parents split and she might only know sketchy details of her birth father
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Just in case the Lynch/Hogan/Daley family is still in the running:
Maybe they managed to marry a bit later on
Q2 1884 Ashton 8d 843
BUCKLEY Amelia Ann
HOGAN Mary Ann
LYNCH Thomas
Noel Osmond Ogier
Osmond and Amelia married, so Thomas and Mary Ann are definitely the other couple
From Lancs BMD
3rd May 1884 St Ann, Ashton under Lyne
Thomam Lynch and Mariam Annam Ogan
Groom's Father: Francisci Lynch
Bride's Father: Patritii Daley
Witnesses: Maria A. Smith; Elizabetha A. Palmer