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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: ManchesterJohnson on Saturday 29 November 25 17:43 GMT (UK)
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This thread is a follow on from - hopefully this link works!
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=895015.90 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=895015.90)
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And the first two marriage certs have arrived! Not that I have been checking the letterbox every hour for the past couple of days!
First up in Mary Burns marrying John Smith in 1864. This has both of them in the right area, at the right ages and so looks good. It has Mary's father as William Burns (labourer, deceased) and John's father as James Smith (labourer, deceased).
Secondly, I have James McAndry marrying Honora Byrne in 1879. As people have thought, this very well could be Mary Burns sister as Honora's father is listed as William Byrne (labourer, deceased).
Certainly nothing that challenges the work you have all so kindly already done :D
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And Honora Byrne's...
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Thanks.
First up in Mary Burns marrying John Smith in 1864. This has both of them in the right area, at the right ages and so looks good. It has Mary's father as William Burns (labourer, deceased) and John's father as James Smith (labourer, deceased).
Witnesses Patrick Smith and Catherine Bonham ? may help.
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Possible lead on the Welsh family?
One witness on the Smith - Burns marriage is Catherine Bonham
Marriage in Manchester Dec Q 1860 Catherine Welsh - John Bonham.
Bapt of a child Matilda in 1866..dies in 1868. One of the godparent sponsors is a Mary Smith.
Bapt - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62472/records/120004427
Name Catharina Welsh
Maiden Name Welsh
Diocese Salfordiensis, in Anglia
Spouse Joannis Bonham
Child Matilda Bonham
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/284407811/matilda-bonham
Cas
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Interesting Smith family in 1851 headed by father James, with sons Patrick & John b Ireland
1851 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8860/records/11586217
(Family not at address 1861)
6 Potts St Court
St Jude
James Smith 40 Head, lab
Margaret Smith 30 Wife
Patrick Smith 18 Son
Mary Smith 20 Wife
Bridget Smith 16 Daughter
Thomas Smith 14 Son
John Smith 12 Son
James Smith 3 Son
Bridgett Welsh 30 Lodger
Mary Welsh 14 Daughter
William Welsh 12 Son
Winifred Welsh 10 Daughter
Patrick Welsh 3 Son
Catherine Welsh 5 Daughter
Added - baptisms for the Smith - Burns children have Smith godparents that may likely fit this 1851 family?
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1861 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8767/records/14408660
Potts St. Court (same address area as 1851)
Patrick Smith 26 Head
Mary Smith 30 Wife
Catherine Smith 6 Daughter
Thomas Smith 4 son
Mary A Smith 2 Daughter
Margaret Smith 2mths Daughter
Looks like Patrick married a Welsh. Can also be spelt Welch or Walsh
Bapt Thomas - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62472/records/899133
1871 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/7619/records/17724698
St Jude, Manchester
Mary Smith 36 Head, widow
Catherine Smith 18 Daughter
Thomas Smith 16 Son
Mary Ann Smith 12 Daughter
Margaret Smith 10 Daughter
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Also this 1861 which may connect to 1851. Ages are out but not unusual with timeframe & literacy levels. There was a brother Michael with John & family in 1871.
1861 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8767/records/14408731
Potts St. Court
Bridget Smith 22 Head, Ireland
Michael Smith 6 Brother, Manchester
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I know he's not really important but there's a tree on Ancestry linking to a lot more records. The same is often mistranscribed.
John (Bonynge) Bonham .Bonynge, Gaynor, Phelps, Thomas
Catherine Welsh was his 3rd wife.
When John (Bonynge) Bonham was born on 11 July 1819 in Drumcree, Westmeath, his father, George, was 24 and his mother, Mary, was 24. He was married three times and had three sons and four daughters. He died on 11 March 1875 in Manchester, Lancashire, at the age of 55, and was buried there.
Catherine Welsh was born in 1837 in Ireland. She married John (Bonynge) Bonham in October 1860 in Manchester, Lancashire. They had five children in 11 years. She died in September 1896 at the age of 59.
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Interesting points between the above marriages, (although around 15 years apart) are they are both held at St Anns RC Church at Junction Street, Ancoats.
https://www.manchesterhistory.net/manchester/churches/stannesancoats.html
Both marriages were registrar attended. I suspect the marriage in 1879 between Mary Smith & James Burns was also held at St Ann's RC, going by the info from the other couple (Patrick & Mary) on registration page, as they also married there.
The witness for James and Honora at marriage are likely the same as godparents for James Burns b 1886, youngest son of Mary & James Burns, info on bapt on previous thread.
The first witness is likely the son of James McAndry/McAndrew...see 1861 census in previous thread.
1881 census James & Honora/Ann are at the same address he gives at marriage with Mary Jane as niece.
Age 38 for Honora/Ann match roughly census age, so birth around c1841. Only age at death gives her born circa 1838.
Marriage address for Honora/Ann is the same street address that Mary & James Burns gave when firstborn Joanna/Anne was baptised in 1880, although 2 doors apart... bapt info in previous thread. (The Burns family are not at same address in 1881 census)
Also a possibility that the Welsh connection is through mothers Jane remarriage, which would be after c1843. Quite possible 2nd husband James Welsh, was married previously, and children of both became step siblings, maybe.
It looks likely all this took place in Ireland, as the first link to Mary Burns in England, is the 1864 marriage to John Smith.
Would look to see who was at the address Mary gave at marriage in 1861/1871 to see if any possible leads or connection possibly.
Just a few thoughts....
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1861 England Census
Lancashire
Manchester
Ancoats
District 44
There's Woodward St and Bk Woodward Street here,, I'm not finding 55, but numbers are missing as far as I can see. Maybe there are names that link in.
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And now we have what we think to be 'our' Mary Smith nee Burns marrying James Burns.
Mary's father is right (William (deceased) and the age is good. The witnesses don't appear to be of much help.
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And lastly for now, we have Catherine Burns marrying Ben Holland in 1904. Catherine's age fits, as does her father. The witnesses is one unknown plus Mary Holland. I have Mary Holland as a sister to Ben so that looks good.
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The combined research looks good, fits together...confirmed by certs.
Did you obtain the death for John Smith?
Most Birth & Death certs are available from GRO for £3.00 instant digital download..no waiting.
Unfortunately marriages are not available this way.
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I did indeed and it absolutely fits with the family at 2 Smiths Court on the 1871 census, informant Mary Smith.
Now I just need to sit down and build the tree properly with all this newly found info, thanks to everyone’s help!
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1905 marriage Prestwich all on same page
James Harry Barlow
Mary Holland x
John Pearsall x
Winifred Preston