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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: aidansrest on Tuesday 25 November 25 10:18 GMT (UK)
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Hi
This links directly to my 'John Donkin - Who were his parents?' post, but, after purchasing his marriage certificate to Mary Ann Fitzharris, I have confirmation that his father was Samuel Donkin (or Duncan), an iron roller.
John did not indicate, when in married (1914), that his father was deceased (although it is quite possible that he was), and the two witnesses, C Gray and J Breslanch (very hard to decipher), don't appear to be relatives.
The address for both bride and groom was given as 77 Church Street North, Monkwearmouth.
John's parents were Samuel Duncan (Donkin) and Margaret Cassidy who married in Sunderland on the 3rd March 1888 (possibly a Roman Catholic venue as John married in St Benet's, Sunderland).
John's birth registration cannot be traced, but he was listed as being a year old on the 1891 census.
The family were living in 138 Queens Road, Sunderland in 1891, Samuel was listed as being a coal miner, aged 25 years (born c1866), and gave his place of birth as Oldham, Lancashire.
By 1901, Samuel was back in Lancashire, and lodging in Stalybridge, where he was employed as a ‘puddler’ in the ironworks, which would fit with the occupation John gave him in 1914; he confirmed that he was married and gave his birth place as Oldham, Lancashire.
But then the trail goes cold...I believe that John was staying with his maternal grandparents, John and Bridget Cassidy in 1901, listed as 'John Cassidy', aged 10 years.
And, by 1911, he was staying with his maternal aunt, Annie Prior, who was one of his mother's younger sisters, listed as John Donkin.
This seems to indicate that either his parents have died (or at least his mother), or may have remarried/parted, but can't find any trace of either.
Can anyone find Samuel before his marriage? Or what happened to him and Margaret?
Many Thanks
Sue
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Have you checked this death for Margaret Duncan
1895 Sunderland
Age 23 birth year about 1872
Rosie
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I think she was the wife of a William Alexander Duncan (unfortunately)
Sue
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Have you checked for a John Cassidy birth?
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I have - with various spellings too - nothing! ??? ???
Sue
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Have been checking out this "near fit" (pity about the birthplace)
https://www.scottishindexes.com/prisontranscript.aspx?prisonid=271911926
in order to rule out. Nowt as yet.
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There's one in Cockermouth Sep 1888 - what date was Margaret married to Samuel?
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Margaret married Samuel on the 3rd March 1888 (Sunderland)
Sue
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There’s a marriage which can be ruled out;
Samuel Donkin m. Ellen Burdon in 1896 Sunderland
- This Samuel appeared at Southwick in 1901 b. 1870
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Not near a laptop at present- but sounds interesting!
What was his occupation and place of birth in 1901?
Sue
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Not near a laptop at present- but sounds interesting!
What was his occupation and place of birth in 1901?
Sue
He was an engine fitter born at Durham. Previously married to Elizabeth Burdon in 1889 and appears in 1891 at 5 Dene Terrace, Southwick as a son-in-law. Doesn’t look to be yours.
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This may be worth a look? ??? Age keeps varying.
Samuel Duncan
25, b Oldham
5”, brown hair
Collier
HMP Wakefield
In debt
(1895)
Samuel Duncan
29, b Oldham
Miner, 5”1/4, brown hair
HMP Wakefield
Bastardy(?)
(1896)
Samuel Duncan
28, b Oldham
Miner, 5”1/4
HMP Wakefield
Drunk
“Been five years in Wandsworth Industrial School”
(1897)
The 1881 census for this Samuel
“Reformatory Or Boys Home" Wandsworth Common
Samuel Duncan, 17, inmate, b Lancashire
A possibility in 1906, but not 100% sure
Samuel Duncan
Committal: 24 April 1906
Drunk
b Scholes, Wigan
Age 43, 5”3/4, brown hair
Puddler
Wakefield HMP
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Thanks so much- if it is my Samuel it would explain his absences and possibly why his son, named in 1901 as John Cassidy, was with his grandparents at that time
Sue
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Happy to help :)
A bit more digging brings out this article, Samuel Duncan (13) admitted to reformatory school in 1876.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/96f71ecc-c731-4bcf-bb88-ab7bb6a43d12
Possible for 1871 Rawmarsh Lane, Rotherham
Thomas Price, 41
Charlotte Price, 31
Mary E Price, 8
William T Price, 6
Margaret Price, 1
Ellen Dunkin, 56, mother, b Staffordshire
William Dunkin, 33, brother, b Staffordshire
Samuel Dunkin, 7, brother son, b Derbyshire
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That's fabulous!! I really appreciate your help as Samuel (and his son, John, who is now sorted) have been a nightmare!
Many thanks
Sue
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Have been checking out this "near fit" (pity about the birthplace)
https://www.scottishindexes.com/prisontranscript.aspx?prisonid=271911926
in order to rule out. Nowt as yet.
There is also a prison register entry on Scotlands People.
Samuel Duncan, admitted Barlinnie Prison, 1898. Age 29, birthplace Oldham.
A newspaper article relating to this gives his occupation as puddler and also states he sometimes went under the assumed surname Jackson.
By 1901, Samuel was back in Lancashire, and lodging in Stalybridge, where he was employed as a ‘puddler’ in the ironworks, which would fit with the occupation John gave him in 1914; he confirmed that he was married and gave his birth place as Oldham, Lancashire.
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Again...thank you so much!! I'll be back on the case later today!
Sue
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Deleted
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My goodness!! What a man he is turning out to be!
Sue
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Looking at all the fabulous evidence you have all found I wonder if he was born as
Samuel Duncome - birth registered during the December quarter of 1863 (Chesterfield)
The Derbyshire Register's birth index lists the place he was born as Eckington, Derbyshire, unfortunately I can't find a baptism of evidence of a mother's maiden name.
However, his grandmother, Ellen Duncombe, can be found on the 1851 and 1861 census with her husband, Peter.
They appear to have had two children, Charlotte, who married Thomas Price, and William, who may possibly be Samuel's father.
Just a guess though
Sue
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William Duncombe died in Bolsover, Derbyshire in 1876 - aged 38 years.
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MMN on the Samuel Duncome birth is Garside
DUNCOME, SAMUEL GARSIDE
GRO Reference: 1863 D Quarter in CHESTERFIELD UNION IN THE COUNTY OF DERBY Volume 07B Page 520
Peter Duncan/Duncombe died in July 1870, as Peter Dunkcam aged 65, Chesterfield, 7b, 379. The newspapers have an inquest.
I can’t tell when Peter & Ellen married, but her maiden name was Sanders. They had another child, Rosanna b. 1844 at Wolverhampton.
William was born at Buckinghamshire as was Charlotte in 1839. Baptised as William Duncuff in 1837 (need to find the record again)
William may have married Sarah Preston in 1860?https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/644c1e16f493fdb184f23244
They had a son Edward who died aged 7mths
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/68567c9f8655747a97f1fea5
To add, there’s an article in 1894 also about Samuel; https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/99dfab97-a124-44fc-be7f-6549a6062460
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Hi
Thanks for that!
William married Sarah Preston in St John, Wolverhampton on the 16th August 1859.
He gave his age as 20 years and confirmed his father as Peter Duncomb.
So I immediately assumed that Samuel was their son- but, seemingly not, if mother's maiden name was Gsrside.
Looking at the 1871 census Samuel was listed as William's son (brothers son) and had been born in Derbyshire.
William died in Bolsover in 1876 and it was later that year, from the newspaper article, that Samuel was sent to a reformatory as his grandmother couldn't cope with him.
His grandmother, Ellen, remained in Bolsover and dies there in 1890.
I think William's parents Peter and Ellen married in Newport, Shropshire on the 17th February 1834 as Peter Duncan and Eleanor Sanders.
Their daughter, Charlotte, was baptised in Loughton, Buckinghamshire on the 5th January 1840 and her birth registration confirms her mother's maiden name as Sanders
Sue
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Born 30 Oct 1863 at No16 Seymour(?) Staveley, Samuel Duncome son of William Duncome (coal miner) and Louisa Duncome formerly Garside
If this is the same William, (and assuming he was married to Sarah Preston), what happened to Sarah ???
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Fantastic find...but when did William marry Louise?
Sue
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When indeed!
Samuel Duncan bap 13 March 1864 Staveley son of William & Louisa
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The whole family, from start to finish, have been a nightmare
Sue
But really appreciate help!
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They certainly know how to make things interesting ;D
Sarah was in the 1861 census living with her mother
Eagle St Wolverhampton
Margaret Preston, 53
Betsy Preston, 12
Sarah Duncan, 19, unmarried, b Bilston
Edward Duncan, 6 (says years but has to be months), b Wolverhampton
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Thanks so much for this!!
Can I just ask, where you found the information regarding Samuel's birth and baptism?
Thanks again
Sue
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Here on Family Search but it’s also on FindMyPast
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQRJ-HPP?lang=en&cid=fs_copy
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Fabulous!! Thank you so much again
Sue
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Long post but I thought it may be worth compiling a timeline of findings.
17 Feb 1834 - Peter Duncan & Eleanor Sanders marry at Newport, Shropshire
19 Aug 1838 - William Duncuff, son of Peter & Ellen, bap at Stoke Hammond, Buckingham
5 Jan 1840 - Charlotte Duncan bap at Loughton, Buckingham
1841 Census - as Duncan, Peter (25), Ellen (20) & two children at Horsley Fields, Wolverhampton
13 Jan 1844 - Rosanna Duncombe dau of Peter & Ellen, bap at Wolverhampton
1851 Census - as Duncome, Peter (33, coal miner), Ellen (32) and children residing at Staffordshire.
16 Aug 1859 - William Duncomb (20, miner) of Steelhouse Lane married Sarah Preston (18) of Steelhouse Lane at St John, Wolverhampton. Wit: George Lea & Bridget Preston.
Late 1860 - Edward Duncan son of William & Sarah born
1861 census - Sarah (19) & Edward Duncan (6mth) at Eagle Street, Wolverhampton w/ Sarah’s mother Margaret Preston.
1861 census - Peter, Ellen & Charlotte Duncan at Portobello, Willenhall.
William missing from census.
21 May 1861 - Edward Duncan, 9mths, son of William (miner) Steelhouse Lane buried at Merridale Cemetery, Wolverhampton. Grave 435b.
30 Oct 1863 - at No 16 Seymour, Staveley, Samuel Duncome son of William Duncome (miner) & Louisa Garside is born.
1864 - Samuel Duncan baptised at Staveley
1864 - Charlotte Duncan m. Thomas Price
July 1870 - Peter Duncan/Duncome, 65, collier, dies from manslaughter by John Jones. Buried 23 July at Staveley.
1871 Census - Ellen Duncan, William Duncan and Samuel Duncan living with Charlotte Price at Rawmarsh Lane, Kimberworth, Rotherham
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And the second lot
Jun 1876 - Samuel Duncan (“about 9”) charged with stealing shallots from a garden. 3 days. Committed for theft a year prior.
21 June 1876 - William Duncan dies aged 38 at Bolsover.
Samuel put into the care of his grandmother Ellen
30 Oct 1876 - Samuel Duncan (a pony driver, “11 or 13”), of Bolsover, charged with stealing a knife and pliers on 17 Oct. Previously convicted & sent to Wandsworth Reformatory School.
1881 Census - Samuel Duncan (18) b. Lancashire, an inmate of the Wandsworth Reformatory School.
3 July 1883 - Samuel Duncan (19, collier) and Michael Gill (17) charged with stealing a horse from Henry Copley at Rotherham. Samuel received 6 calendar mths at Leeds Prison.
Samuel Donkin married Margaret Cassidy on 3rd March 1888
Their son John Donkin born 1888-1891
1891 Census - at 138 Queens Road, Sunderland, Samuel Duncan (miner b. Oldham), Margaret Duncan & their son John (1)
Sep 1894 - Samuel Duncan, miner of George-Square, Warrengate accused Isaiah Dickinson of assault.
22 January 1895 - Samuel Duncan (25) committed to Wakefield 30 days for debt.
18 September 1896 - Samuel Duncan (29) committed to Wakefield City 1 calendar month for bastardy. Discharged 17th Oct 1896.
23 January 1897 - Samuel Duncan committed to Wakefield City 10 days for drunkenness.
1901 Census Samuel Duncan, puddler is a lodger at Stalybridge
24 April 1906 - Samuel Duncan (43, puddler) committed to Rotherham 7 days for drunkenness.
24? April 1909 - Sam Duncan (49, miner) committed to Wakefield City 3 months for exposure.
I think that is all of it ::)
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Yes! Phew!! I think that just about sums him up!!
To say he was an habitual criminal would be an understatement- what a man! What a life!
Terrible childhood which led to a life of crime.
His son, John, spent his childhood with his maternal grandparents and then his maternal aunt.
Touched on a life of crime, enlisted in 1914 and suffered terrible mental health problems later- died at a relatively young age.
A sad story 😞
But thanks so much for your interest and input
Sue