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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: Deirdre784 on Sunday 23 November 25 17:30 GMT (UK)
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Not sure if this is the right board to post this but I’m looking for information on the Crickhowell guardians and union as mentioned in the attached.
A very puzzling line on a friend’s tree, not helped by the family crossing county boundaries, though I’ve yet to find William Bush (born Tredegar around 1853) on a census after the 1861 at Aberdare with his parents William (born Blagdon, Somerset, fishmonger then greengrocer) and Emma (born Llysdinam, Breconshire), and sister Mary (born Llangynidr in later censuses). Have William senior and wife Emma on all the censuses until William’s death in Crickhowell on 17 Feb 1904. Possible entry for William junior in 1891 in Brynmawr with wife Margaret, born Ireland.
There are numerous pieces in the online papers about a William Bush, fishmonger, born around 1853 in Tredegar. Assaults (one on a policeman resulting in 3 months with labour in Brecon prison in 1895), drunkenness, etc etc.
Any help with where i might find out more about him and his abandoned wife as in the attached would be very welcome.
Thanks for reading,
Deirdre
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Not sure what happened to the photo, will try again
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Hope this works ….
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Do you know if his wife was Mary nee Sliney?
Or another woman
Cas
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Hi Cas, it’s Margaret on the 1891 but that’s the only info i can find and not guaranteed to be the right William. Not found a birth or marriage yet. Nor a marriage for his parents (several trees on Ancestry have the wrong mother).
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Sliney sounds a bit Irish to me so what have you found?
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Don't think he is your man..
Was looking at this family. 1901 Mary in Ireland . 1911 - 1921 in Wales
1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2353/records/1726849
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William still in Llanbradach November 1905
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4157826/4157828/44/William%2BOR%2BBush?from=search
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Yes he’s also listed as attending his brother Thomas’s funeral in Llanbradach in 1936. Best indication that he is the right family.
added…. Just wondering why i can’t find him in any of the censuses (other than 1861 and possibly 1891), given we have his name, occupation and reputed place of birth.
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He is a slippery one isn't he...wife also.
I do think the 1891 is him, but it does not look like they had children
Possible marriage in 1873 Merthyr to Margaret Warren, cannot find any children.. only match for a Bush/Warren birth was Arthur Bush b Brighton 1877..not checked further on child as like you cannot pin family down in census.
Possibly not born to couple, or not correct marriage
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CANTON ELOPEMENT.
Emma Bush, wife of a fishmonger, of Wellington-street, eloped with a man named Woods
the husband, William Bush issued a warrant against Woods. He stated that he return home on Wednesday last, and found that during his absence his wife had absconded with Woods wbo had entered the house and taken bedding, wearing apparel, watch.
The applicant remarked that he didn't want his wife but wanted his clothes
Cardiff Times - Saturday 12 June 1869.
Edited because of poor OCR.
Did you have this one .
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Hi wilcoxon, but that must be William senior. Fascinating find though, will check into that now 😀
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I wonder if that's the same Emma? By 1870 she's back in Aberdare with the children, and with her husband in 1871
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3075184/3075187/12/emma%2BOR%2Bbush?from=search
ADDED: there's a few news reports of a William in and around Canton, Grangetown and Llandaff in the 1860s and 1870s, and a William b Bath c1836 on the 1871 census at one of the addresses mentioned (with a differently named wife). So different chap?
Also interesting fracas involving a William and Margaret Bush - but Landore is a bit out of their area, and labourer not fishmonger
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3420569/3420571/11/margaret%2BOR%2Bbush?from=search
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Hi wilcoxon, but that must be William senior. Fascinating find though, will check into that now 😀
And Mabel…… thanks
The family (William senior) was definitely in Canton, Cardiff at some point as daughter Ruth was born at Union St, Canton, on 22 May 1868, father William, greengrocer, mother Emma, formerly Evans. The family was in Llangynidr in 1871. Had not found found anything to suggest a problem with Wm senior and Emma, Wm born Blagdon, Somerset on all censuses, though age varies hugely, Emma born in Llysdinam (i believe, though variances in the census spellings) around 1829. Not found any mention of her prior to 1851 census though.
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Earlier piece on the same story. Daughter Ruth - if the same baby - was 13 months old.
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In 1871 he is lodging in Aberdare as a Collier, age 21 born Tredegar. Transcribed on Ancestry as BUTH. Was his birth registered in Abergavenny in 1851?
Possible marriage for parents, names appear on the same page.
Marriages Jun 1847
BUSH, William
EVANS, Amelia
Abergavenny 26 60
Debra :)
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Brilliant thanks Debra, had discounted that birth initially but certainly fits.
Mum was always Emma on the censuses though, and at death. Will suggest my friend gets that certificate though.
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Just realised William is not with his parents William and Emma on 1851 census though 🤔
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There’s aWilliam Bush aged 4 months on the 1851, born Penybont, Abergavenny, with William and Margaret Bush. Possible marriage of William Bush and Margaret Edmunds in Abergavenny in 1849, maybe a mistranscription on the birth entry 🤔
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This is turning into a real puzzle, even more so as i was looking for William Bush junior.
Turns out that daughter / sister Ruth died aged 13 in Brynmawr in 1881, but registered by John Bush, father, huckster 🙄 Buried with her mother Emma (died 1906), both named on the headstone. William is buried with them (died 1904) but not named. 🤔
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https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3742142/3742149/132/William%2BOR%2Bbush?from=search (https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3742142/3742149/132/William%2BOR%2Bbush?from=search)
William Bush.1899 Aberdare. A fish market is mentioned
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Thanks Wilcoxon, assuming this is now the younger Wm.
William senior entered on 1901 in Brynmawr, aged 90 (though i believe he was around 10 years younger), former greengrocer.
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1900 Aberdare. William Bush fish hawker ;D
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3030509/3030512/29/William%2BOR%2Bbush?from=search
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Thanks again Wilcoxon, not seen that one, though have found plenty of others.
Sadly none mention his father or a wife by name to tie the family down, nor any addresses.
He appears to move to Llanbradach (Caerphilly) in 1905, leaving a wife chargeable to the Crickhowell parish.
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There's a few of that name around. The one in the Aberdare Court / market is in court again but this time he's a green grocer.
1901 William Bush b1851 married born Maesteg is in Prison in Swansea .He is a general labourer speaks English.
Just to help eliminate some.
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Thanks, didn’t find many William Bushes when i started this a few days ago, but they are coming thick and fast now.
Have found a funeral report for his brother Thomas in 1936 in Llanbradach, where a Mr W Bush brother was in attendance, so he was still alive then though in his eighties. Ties in with the report of him abandoning his wife to the Crickhowell parish.
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Radnor Express - Thursday 21 September 1905
Wm Bush, fishmonger, was brought up on a warrant, at the instance of the Crickhowell Guardians, charged with neglecting to maintain his wife
J. 'F. Turner, relieving officer, said defendant Wm Bush was the husband of Margaret Bush. now an inmate in the Crickhowell Union Workhouse,
there is a lot more. unfortunately I can't attach images , a problem with my settings
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Brill thanks, ties in with my initial post but gives his wife’s name and that she’s in the workhouse. I’ll look for that article and see if i can find Margaret’s death too.
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Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)Bush Margaret 70 Crickhowell 11b81
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Yes just found that thanks. Have told my friend if she wants to buy it (i’d buy it if it were my tree but even £3 adds up).
Would love a trip to the archives too to see if anything else is available 😀
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Another possibility.
Caerphilly Journal - Saturday 10 April 1926
Sent to prison 83 year old Wm Bush of Llandradoch charged with insulting behaviour.
He asked to be sent to the workhouse but was sent to prison.
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You’re kidding! Thought he’d settled down in recent years but that looks a possibility. Thanks again 🌺
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Just realised William is not with his parents William and Emma on 1851 census though 🤔
That is because he wasn't yet born.
BUSH, WILLIAM
Mother's maiden surname: EVANS
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 26 Page 43
There’s aWilliam Bush aged 4 months on the 1851, born Penybont, Abergavenny, with William and Margaret Bush. Possible marriage of William Bush and Margaret Edmunds in Abergavenny in 1849, maybe a mistranscription on the birth entry 🤔
BUSH, WILLIAM
Mother's maiden surname: EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 26 Page 9
Debra :)
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Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)Bush Margaret 70 Crickhowell 11b81
I am lost, who is this?
Debra :)
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Deaths Dec 1906 (>99%)Bush Margaret 70 Crickhowell 11b81
I am lost, who is this?
Debra :)
For Debra - it's his wife
1891 - 151 King? Street, Aberbaiden, Breconshire, Wales
Registration District Crickhowell
Piece 4576, Folio 96, Page number 11
William Bush 40 Head, fishmonger, Tredegar, Monmouthshire
Margaret Bush 48 Wife, Pickal, Co Limerick, Ireland
If access - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/6897/records/758658
Cas
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She seems a bit old but it looks like Margaret didn't know how old she was, she may have been innumerate. She was 48 in 1891, 82 in 1901 and 70 in 1906.
Debra :)
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I think that Margaret is the wife of Michael DALY who William BUSH was lodging with in 1871. She was aged 28 and a similar place of birth as in other census records. I wonder if it is supposed to be Rathkeale?
Rickale, Pickal, Rickale.
Debra :)
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Check out 1 June 1939 burial at St Fagins Aberdare. William Budh aged 94. Died at Windsor House Trecynon It was a workhouse.
William seems to putting his age as a lot older than if he is the one in 1861,
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Debra, i’m not surprised you’re confused, i am too. Probably the most confusing tree i’ve ever worked on.
Wilcoxon, that looks promising thanks. Ages certainly don’t help; his parents were both almost 10 years older when they died than they actually were.
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Wanting to tie this up i bought the digital image (even though it’s not my tree!) Doesn’t look like it’s him though, as occupation listed as formerly a coal hewer.
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It might be worth looking at Thomas the brother, did he marry Alice Perkins, if so then his father was William Bush a banksman. .
It's really confusing isn't. ::)
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Very! Yes Thomas did marry Alice Perkins, but his father William (senior) was a fishmonger then greengrocer on all other records. No idea where the banksman came from. The friend i’m helping is descended from Thomas and Alice and has a lot of info on the family, though mainly Alice’s side. The Bush side is very sketchy!
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Just realised William is not with his parents William and Emma on 1851 census though 🤔
That is because he wasn't yet born.
BUSH, WILLIAM
Mother's maiden surname: EVANS
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 26 Page 43
There’s aWilliam Bush aged 4 months on the 1851, born Penybont, Abergavenny, with William and Margaret Bush. Possible marriage of William Bush and Margaret Edmunds in Abergavenny in 1849, maybe a mistranscription on the birth entry 🤔
BUSH, WILLIAM
Mother's maiden surname: EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 26 Page 9
Debra :)
Many apologies Debra, didn’t check that properly. Going round in circles with this chap 🙄
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Ruth in 1871.
BUSH, RUTH mmn EVANS GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A
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William Bush / Margaret Edmunds
1851 William Bush 23 engine worker Margaret 25 and son William
1861 William Bush Wid engine driver Enoch and Elias twins 5
1871 William Bush , wife Margaret has come back from the dead ::)
One or both of the sons are with them
1881 William and Margaret with sons, William now a quarry owner.
Margaret Bush dies March 1891
William Bush died 1897 , made a will, probate to Enoch.
I haven't looked for William b 1851.
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William Bush bc 1850
Name William Bush Age19 Birth Year abt 1850 Ship Name Royal Dane
Port of Departure Plymouth, England Port of Arrival Brisbane Arrival Date25 Sep 1869
NameWilliam Bush Marriage Date1 Apr 1873
Marriage Place Queensland Australia
Spouse Sarah Jessie Carswell
William Bush Employment Date30 Jan 1912
Employment Place Silver Spur, Queensland, Australia
EmployerSilverspurDeath Date30 Jan 1912Death PlaceSilver Spur, Australia, Queensland
Notes Killed. He went down to the 300 ft. level to effect repairs. Before commencing work, he put his head over the door protecting the shaft, when the cage came down and smashed his head, killing him instantaneously.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u3y/
Says Wales on Findagrave
Marriage is a transcript so can't be certain if it's the son of William and Margaret.
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Just home from a frustrating 8 hours in A&E. Don’t think these are the right family sorry 🤔
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Death registration:
William BUSH
Death date: 30/01/1912
Mother's name: Margaret Edmonds
Father/parent's name: William Bush
Registration details: 1912/C/4994
Debra :)
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1871 William Bush , wife Margaret has come back from the dead ::)
One or both of the sons are with them
I am pretty sure this is a second wife.
Debra :)
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Margaret Bush 34 died 1859 Pontypool
August 1861 William Bush married Margaret Williams a widow .
It was really just to discount this family.
There are other William Bush around but none that lived long enough to be at the funeral of Thomas.
Maybe the death in 1939 was the right one, even though occupation isn't right. It's a pity he didn't live a bit longer to be in 1939 register.
Workhouse admissions might help but I can't find them.
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Published: 12th Sep 1934
Newspaper: South Wales Daily Post
COURT APPEARANCE AT 91 A 91-years-old man who was stated to have a deplorable record was before the Cardiff Bench to-day He was William Bush who It stated would cause a scene when told to stop begging in order to cause a crowd to gather He would then earn their sympathy and as a result get a lot of money It was said that Bush had no fixed abode but was well known in many parts of Glamorganshire The case was adjourned for three months-
Sounds about right.