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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => Topic started by: minniehaha on Sunday 23 November 25 03:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
On behalf of a friend, I'm hoping someone may be able to find some information about this family. Unfortunately, there is very little to go on. Just a few names handwritten on a small piece of paper.
Roy STEWART, (also known as Roy Edward STEWART) was apparently born in Dunedin in 1901. Birth registration not found.
Roy's 1925 marriage certificate provides his parents' names and place of birth. His age, 24.
Details on Roy's 1957 death certificate are the same. His age, 56.
Mother: Elizabeth STEWART, nee GREY. Father: Joseph STEWART.
Also recorded on this piece of paper is the following:
“1902 Electoral Roll: 131 Maitland Street, domestic duties.” No name attached but this could perhaps be for Elizabeth STEWART??
The note has 1875 as the birth year for Joseph and death year which we cannot read, but either 1930 or 1950.
Not a lot to hook into I know but maybe something can be found?
Minniehaha.
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Elizabeth GRAY at that address 1902 (spelled with an A) no others with same surname there
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Thank you mckha489...😊
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Is there an occupation given for Joseph?
Is Roy the Harnett marriage in 1925?
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Pinning this here for general information https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/sources/LHP9-PVG
No source except death record or obituary given as source for birth.
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Thanks for that TwiggyTree.
Yes, that is the marriage mckha.
Unfortunately, no information for either parent other than that shown above.
Minniehaha.
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The incident involving Mrs Elizabeth GRAY of Maitland Street had wide coverage.
Here is one article.
No idea if it is the mother of Roy. She had a daughter named Jane.https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19011023.2.21?
items_per_page=10&page=3&query=%22elizabeth+gray+mother+%22~4+&snippet=true
Sue
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Mmmm, interesting reading. The victim, daughter of Elizabeth Gray was obviously married, so if this Elizabeth was Roy's mother, there was a big age gap between the siblings. Not that that would have been unusual.
We really have no confirmed information to work with re Elizabeth or Joseph.
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
I did a wildcard surname search from 1898 to 1903 using only "." and found no obvious candidates (I"m sure you're already done this, just sayin' ;D).
Have you considered that he might have been born in Australia or England? Any idea when the parents emigrated or were they born here?
Spades
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An Elizabeth GRAY married a STEWART in New Zealand in 1881.
If it's the correct couple it lends support for a New Zealand birth for Roy.
Spades
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The groom was a James STEWART. Dead end, sorry.
Spades
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Hello Spades,
Nice to 'see' you again. :)
Thank you for your contributions. My friend whose family it is, has not managed to progress beyond what I have shown above. Roy's marriage certificate appears to be the first record of his age and parentage. On this, his name is recorded as Roy STEWART but his death certificate shows Roy Edward STEWART.
Nothing is known about his parentage other than the names provided on the marriage and death certificates.
Minniehaha.
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Might an Intention to Marry shed some light on how long Roy / Mum / Dad had been in the area?
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I'm not sure that would help as we don't have any marriage details for Roy's parents.
Roy married in Waimamaku where his wife was born.
I wonder if Roy can be found on any Electoral rolls prior to his marriage in 1925?
Minniehaha.
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This is a tricky one!
Have you considered approaching any local history society, the local branch of the NZSG, or local church records?
I can get the ITM if you think it might help.
Spades
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It certainly is a very tricky one. My friend, whose family it is, has been "all around the houses" with this search.
Roy was married at the home of his bride, so no church record there. Thank you for the look up offer, but I don't think it would reveal more than the marriage certificate details.
Clutching at straws here, I'm thinking it might be helpful to obtain the marriage printout, because it will show the witnesses.
Minniehaha.
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I wonder if Roy can be found on any Electoral rolls prior to his marriage in 1925?
Hi Minnie
These two electoral listings >
1925 - Northland - Bay of Islands - (Supplementary roll)
STEWART - Roy - motor driver - at Rawene
(at this location with Evelyn May in later years)
?? 1922 - same electorate - added: also, Supplementary roll
STEWART - Roy - at Waiotemarama* - occupation - cinematographer ???
(* Waiotemarama - is west of Waimamaku village )
1922 - looks promising - just not sure about the occupation ??
~ Lu
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Hi Lu,
Thank you. Yes, you are on the right track. Marriage certificate shows occupation as "Mechanic". Death certificate shows, "Theatre Manager".
Marriage certificate shows usual address as Rawene.
Minniehaha.
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Ah, that's good news ("cinematographer" to "motor driver" - particularly in that "neck of the woods" - somehow seemed a tad odd). ;D
~ Lu
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Agreed... ;D
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Roy of Rawene 1935 bankrupt.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19350327.2.111.4?query=%22roy+stewart+rawene%22~7&snippet=true
Married with 2 children
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19350315.2.64?query=%22roy+stewart+rawene%22~7&snippet=true
Evelyn May was in Bay of Islands in 1943 at Kawakawa.
Her parents were farming in Northlands too for many years. At Waimamka.
Sue
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Thanks for that Sue. I will pass that information on to my friend. As far as the children were concerned, yes it is known he had two and we have all their details from birth to death.
Minniehaha.
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Are there any school records for Roy?
What documents would Roy have had to procure if he claimed the Pension?
Did he serve in WW2? Might that record have something?
What if Roy had lived in the area all along, and wasn't born in Dunedin? (That's where a local family history group or museum may be of help).
Are Elizabeth and Joseph; or is it Roy that are part of your friend's branch of interest?
Might Roy's birth have been at sea? Or upon landing (and therefore new immigrants were not aware of the registration process)?
Is there a death or funeral directors record for any of the three in NZ? There didn't appear to be a death for Joseph within 1930-1951, does there?
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Hi TwiggyTree,
Unfortunately we know absolutely nothing about Roy prior to his marriage, when the details as shown above were provided.
As he was aged 56 at death there was possibly no pension involved.
Can't find war records for him.
We are looking for Elizabeth, Joseph and son Roy.
Death record for Roy, but as for his supposed parents, we don't have anything.
Minniehaha.
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This appears to be the closest history archive to Waimamaku, who may be able to help further?
https://www.ourhokianga.com/MuseumArchives.htm
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Thank you.. :)
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Isn't the cemetery record for Roy a little strange, in that it lacks details, he was in hospital, and it is so far away from Waimamaku?
https://www.pncc.govt.nz/Services/Cemetery-and-cremation-search
The funeral director is now called Lychway https://thelychway.co.nz/about-us/ if you think they may have a register with tidbits of information that might help, although given the former I am dubious.
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Again at death, a number of details were unknown about Roy. Maybe the hospital situation, although you say it was far from home, ( I don't know the region) was the best option in his circumstances?
Minniehaha.
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Hello thread.
In reference to reply #18.
While NZ Papers Past searches, of that period, mainly refer to the Government Cinematographer
There was no TV, so between WWI and WWII even quite small local halls hosted a promoter / projectionist, with a travelling projector, and a can of film. Visiting monthly or more frequently.
Those enterprises had their seasons of popularity, and relied heavily on the availability of a healthy local work force. But could provide a secondary income to a qualified/experienced operator.
For a period in the mid 1930’s even Rawene had it’s own Eclipse Theatre opposite the garage mentioned in the bankruptcy. In reality a tad run down community hall, administered by the local Council.
PP searches in the same period will find quite a number of references to; film projectionist, picture projectionist, and less frequently cinematograph projectionist.
Alan.
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Awesome educational update Alan.
I knew there had to be some sort of explanation. ;)
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The incident involving Mrs Elizabeth GRAY of Maitland Street had wide coverage.
Here is one article.
No idea if it is the mother of Roy. She had a daughter named Jane.https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19011023.2.21?
items_per_page=10&page=3&query=%22elizabeth+gray+mother+%22~4+&snippet=true
Sue
One of the articles says that Jane is the wife of Kennedy RENWICK but they didn't actually marry until 1908. She added the name 'Mabel' which I think she probably invented herself, and she also later used the name 'Annie'. His proper name was William Kennedy RENWICK.
Here they are courting in 1900 ;D
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19001231.2.22
Jane in 1915/16
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTR19150807.2.47
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19160613.2.31
There was a Jane ASTON born in 1869 but that would make her aged 10 years older than stated in the papers. Her age was recorded as 48 when she died in 1922.
1869/38741
ASTON, Jane
Parents: Elisabeth/William
Unfortunately, there is very little to go on. Just a few names handwritten on a small piece of paper.
Do you know where this came from? Even vaguely - does it look old or was it written recently?
Debra :)
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Hi Debra,
Thank you for your response. Yes, I know the notes on the scrap of paper were put togther by a relative of my friend, possibly about 20 years ago? Very quickly drawing a blank, as has been the case since then. 🤔
Minniehaha.
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One of the articles says that Jane is the wife of Kennedy RENWICK but they didn't actually marry until 1908. She added the name 'Mabel' which I think she probably invented herself, and she also later used the name 'Annie'. His proper name was William Kennedy RENWICK.
There was a Jane ASTON born in 1869 but that would make her aged 10 years older than stated in the papers. Her age was recorded as 48 when she died in 1922.
1869/38741
ASTON, Jane
Parents: Elisabeth/William
Debra :)
I'd also dug up similar information earlier, in an effort to "sort out" a connection to Elizabeth GRAY of 131 Maitland Street, Dunedin. (Hadn't yet posted here as became very distracted by the antics of her daughter Jane - alias Mabel / Annie ... and also locating Elizabeth.). ;D
The aforementioned Elizabeth GRAY is, I believe, one and the same as. "Elisabeth / Elizabeth ASTON".
[Elizabeth JACKSON m. (NZ) William ASTON - 1862. 4 children of that union. The child Jane ASTON 1869 (-birth registered at Stewart Island according to one source ? - another child reg'd at Riverton).
re: William Kennedy RENWICK : Born at Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC - c. 1875 : Colourful character with a variety of occupations : Appears to have deserted Mabel Jane c. 1916 - and gone to AUS - newspaper notice early 1917 in effort for anxious wife to locate him. He died AUS 1941.
Mabel Jane/Jane, had convictions recorded under forename of "Annie" - bc 1877.
Re: Age difference from that of Jane ASTON - given that she altered her name, and, married a man some years younger, she very likely tinkered with her age also ?
1908 Marriage probably took place in or near, Auckland ? William Kennedy RENWICK is on e/roll Ak-Manukau 1903 claiming seaman's voting right.
??? There's always a slim possibility that Jane was the birth mother of Roy STEWART - and that he was handed over to her mother Elizabeth STEWART to raise ?
And, perhaps later put in foster care ?
* Might be worthwhile checking if "Roy STEWART" appears on NZ school rolls ?? (A guardians' name would be helpful).
~ Lu
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Hi Lu,
As usual, you have been busy covering a lot of ground and being very thorough. Thank you. :)
Re the school rolls. How are these searchable?
Minniehaha.
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Yes, I know the notes on the scrap of paper were put togther by a relative of my friend, possibly about 20 years ago? Very quickly drawing a blank, as has been the case since then. 🤔
Oops missed seeing this before I posted last reply. ;D
Helpful to have confirmed that the notes on scrap of paper were added by another researcher. I was thinking maybe that information re: Elizabeth STEWART was simply just taken from a Dunedin electoral roll in an effort to make some headway with the search ?? (Sort of a preliminary research step ?)
Marriage printout really needed now ;D ... hopefully an occupation for "father" Joseph ?
Also wonder too, how Roy gained experience as a "cinematographer" - and seemingly at quite an early age ??
~ Lu
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Hi Lu,
As usual, you have been busy covering a lot of ground and being very thorough. Thank you. :)
Re the school rolls. How are these searchable?
Minniehaha.
Hi ... you will need to call on a favour from someone who has the relevant NZSG CD. ;D (Sorry I can't help with that).
[You probably don't want a trip to Auckland library ? ... but possibly they hold "Library Editions" of NZSG CD's ? ].
Fingers crossed though that a helpful RootsChatter can assist. ;)
~ Lu
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Thanks for everything Lu....😊
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To keep you in the loop, the marriage printout will be ordered. :)
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
Yes, I think you'll need every bit of documentation you can find with this family.
Spades
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It is certainly presenting a challenge. Not too hopeful about the printout coming up with the goods, but it is all we have at the moment.
Minniehaha.
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The quickest turn around ever by B.D.M.? Marriage printout ordered last night, received today!!
The occupation for Joseph Stewart, Roy's father, is shown as "engineer".
Witnesses were from the Bride's family.
Minniehaha.
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WOW .... onya B.D.M. :D
We'll go in search of "Joseph .... engineer" then.
~ Lu
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;D
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just a thought here.
I do think Roy was reasonably educated, considering his occupations.
This makes me think that the spelling of his mother's name GREY was probably correct.
So, if the part about being born in Dunedin was true, we might search about for Elizabeth GREY of the right age and place.
I sighted one Elizabeth Somerville GREY b.1885. Young for a mother, but.....
She was in Dunedin before training as a nurse and marrying in 1924 (1924/6834)
Sue
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Thank you for your response Sue.
I have just sent an enquiry to Auckland Library asking if they hold the NZGS CD for New Zealand school rolls. And if so, could they please do a search for Roy.
Automated response sent:
"Your enquiry will be reviewed within 10 working days".
Minniehaha.
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I have not given up on this quite yet.
I found a Supreme Court Criminal List (Auckland?) in Papers Past for May 1897. A couple of reports mention Elizabeth Grey, alias Mabel Grey, alias Stewart. I thought I could be on to something, until I read in other reports together with the NZ Police Gazette report, that the last alias was Stevens. The girl was said to be aged about 17 years old.
Drawing a very long bow, I'm wondering about this birth. Different spelling and different Christian name I know. Can anyone tell me where the birth was registered, please?
1901/15594 Stephens Frederick Elizabeth NR
Minniehaha.
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That birth appears to be in Christchurch according to the old birth index.
Ian C
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Sad story involving Roy in March 1927
Motor-cyclist Killed.
Collision with Lorry.
Obstruction in Grass.
Rider thrown from Seat.
A fatal accident occurred on the Kaikohe-Rawene Road at about seven
o'clock this morning, the victim being Mr. Ernest Edward Robbins, aged
28. Deceased was riding a motor-cycle, which collided with a motor-lorry
driven by Mr. Roy Stewart, who is in the employ of Mr. Paul Spender.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19270315.2.41
At the inquest Roy was exonerated
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19270329.2.77
Here's his deposition, in which he says, I have been driving motor veckels (vehicles) for the last 10 years as well as having other experience with machinery
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS2M-CSWX-5
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Drawing a very long bow, I'm wondering about this birth. Different spelling and different Christian name I know. Can anyone tell me where the birth was registered, please?
1901/15594 Stephens Frederick Elizabeth NR
Hi ... the above child (birth reg'd Christchurch - d.o.b. 15 August 1901) appears to have died shortly after birth.
NZ BDM - Death :
1901/4968 - STEPHENS - Frederick - aged 25 days
Date of Death : 9 September 1901 - registered at Christchurch.
~ Lu
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Thank you Lu. I am now hoping that some Stewart family members may remember something about Roy which we can hook into. This must surely be one of the most difficult puzzles we have tried to solve. 🤔
Minniehaha.
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I have not given up on this quite yet.
.... and nor should you. ;D
In cases like this, every little snippet, is "grist to the mill". ;)
Hi Minnie ... maybe worth contacting Palmerston North Library (I see they style themselves these days as "Palmy City Library" :D) ?
https://citylibrary.pncc.govt.nz/explore/heritage
Roy appears to have been resident in PN for some years prior to his death there.
Q. Did the local newspaper at that time publish an obituary for him ... or make any mention of his passing (as smaller towns/cities tended to do in that era) ?
Have always found "Palmy" to have great resources and helpful volunteers/staff. [See their "Search for Family History section"].
~ Lu
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Still clutching at straws! I found this and wonder if it could be taken further?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19040819.2.11?end_date=31-12-1905&items_per_page=10&page=9&phrase=2&query=Elizabeth+stewart&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1890
Minniehaha.
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wonder if it could be taken further?
Bit more detail here
Evening Star, 18 August 1904
Husband James Stewart, age 27
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ESD19040818.2.39?items_per_page=10&query=%22Klizcheth+stewart%22&snippet=true
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Thank you. Now if the article had only mentioned Joseph instead of James.. ;D
Minniehaha.