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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: CHERAN on Friday 14 November 25 21:08 GMT (UK)

Title: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Friday 14 November 25 21:08 GMT (UK)
Hi am looking for information re the deaths

PEFFER: William  there is a death on the GRO 1887
PEFFER: Emma born Taylor

I am tracing their daughter Alice Maud Heffer and have her marriage on the war records of her Husband Harold Shurven in 1917 (Harold is soldier from South Australia) I have these records Alice born in England died in South Australia

William is recorded as Packinging Case Maker on  this marriage record (also the same on his marriage to Emma) but is not recorded as deceased Alice's marriage record.

I can't seem to find anything on find a grave for Emma and William...

Thanks in advance

Cheran

update  I have found Emma (nee Taylor) and the 3 children on 1891 census she is widowed so the 1887 death is a possiblilty. and on the 1901 marriage of Alice's sister Emma in 1901 records her dad as William Augusta Peffer deceased (Packinging Case Maker)

Emma (nee Taylor) re marries to a George Watkins in 1896!

Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 14 November 25 22:38 GMT (UK)
Alice Maud Peffer bapt April 1886 in Shoreditch
Father William is a “dealer”

1881 census St Leonards Shoreditch
William Peffer 35 born Shoreditch packing case s….?
Emma Peffer 28 wife

MARRIAGE 9 Mar 1878 Saint Mary, Haggerston
William Peffer bachelor, packing case maker. Father – Richard Peffer, egg marchant
to Emma Taylor

BAPTISM William CHarles Pfeffer
4 Jun. 1848 Bermondsey: Tooley Street, Southwark
Father – Richard Augustus Pfeffer (egg merchant); mother Mary Ann Pfeffer

DEATH
PEFFER, WILLIAM       Age 39 
GRO Reference: 1887  M Quarter in BARNET  Volume 03A  Page 139
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Friday 14 November 25 23:48 GMT (UK)
Hi am looking for information re the deaths

PEFFER: William  there is a death on the GRO 1887
PEFFER: Emma born Taylor

I am tracing their daughter Alice Maud Heffer and have her marriage on the war records of her Husband Harold Shurven in 1917 (Harold is soldier from South Australia) I have these records Alice born in England died in South Australia

William is recorded as Packinging Case Maker on  this marriage record (also the same on his marriage to Emma) but is not recorded as deceased Alice's marriage record.

I can't seem to find anything on find a grave for Emma and William...

Thanks in advance

Cheran

update  I have found Emma (nee Taylor) and the 3 children on 1891 census she is widowed so the 1887 death is a possiblilty. and on the 1901 marriage of Alice's sister Emma in 1901 records her dad as William Augusta Peffer deceased (Packinging Case Maker)

Emma (nee Taylor) re marries to a George Watkins in 1896!


I am wondering if there is a variation with surname spelling "PFEFFER" adds another complexity
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Friday 14 November 25 23:50 GMT (UK)
Alice Maud Peffer bapt April 1886 in Shoreditch
Father William is a “dealer”

1881 census St Leonards Shoreditch
William Peffer 35 born Shoreditch packing case s….?
Emma Peffer 28 wife

MARRIAGE 9 Mar 1878 Saint Mary, Haggerston
William Peffer bachelor, packing case maker. Father – Richard Peffer, egg marchant
to Emma Taylor

BAPTISM William CHarles Pfeffer
4 Jun. 1848 Bermondsey: Tooley Street, Southwark
Father – Richard Augustus Pfeffer (egg merchant); mother Mary Ann Pfeffer

DEATH
PEFFER, WILLIAM       Age 39 
GRO Reference: 1887  M Quarter in BARNET  Volume 03A  Page 139

Thanks so much, I saw this after i posted about the possibility of it being "Pfeffer"
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 15 November 25 00:23 GMT (UK)
Marriage St Botolph, Aldgate March 1845
Richard Augustus PFEFFER (bachelor, egg merchant) to Mary DRURY (widow)
On this record Richard names his father as William Pfeffer – vellum binder

1851 census Bethnal Green
Richard PEFFER, 28 born Bethnal Green, egg merchant
Wife Mary and children William and Henry

By 1881 census Clerkenwell
Richard A PFEFFER 61 egg and fish grocer
He has a second wife Annie Maria HARIES who he married in 1865 Hackney
On this 2nd marriage record Richard names his father as William Pfeffer – Deceased, mariner.


Baptism Richard Augustus PFEFFER
12 May 1822 (born 1st April) St Giles, Cripplegate London
Parents - William and Ann Mary Elizabeth PFEFFER Vellum binder, Jewin street


MARRIAGE 1811 Saint Mary Woolnoth, City of London
 William PFEFFER to Ann Mary Elizabeth SHEPHARD
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Saturday 15 November 25 02:04 GMT (UK)
Thanks so Much...

I will add the details into my data base and keep searching...

On William's birth on the GRO it has the Mother's maiden name as Rickman same for his brother Alfred Henry, so the next?   Is Mary Ann Drury who is widow on marriage marry a Drury.... only problem it records her father's name as William Drury.

1861 Census has Richard with William and his brother Henry and sisters Mary Ann and Mary Louisa and a Julia whos aged 0.... and wife is Ann?   

I am chasing myself here.   A Julia Emma Harris Peffer is buried 10 June Hackney  Her birth is 1861    

PFEFFER, JULIA  EMMA     Mother Maiden Name is HARRIS 
the Gro ref is  1861  M Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 97  ???
 
but there is another Julia E on 1881 census!
Cheran
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 15 November 25 05:42 GMT (UK)
BAPTISMS
William CHarles Pfeffer bapt 4 Jun 1848 Surrey  (Parents - Richard augustus and Mary Ann)
BIRTH REGO
PFEFFER, WILLIAM  CHARLES     Mother - RICKMAN 
GRO Reference: 1848  J Quarter in SAINT OLAVE'S UNION SOUTHWARK  Volume 04  Page 497


Alfred Henry Pfeffer bapt 30 Sep 1849 Shoreditch (parents - Richard Augustus and Mary ann)
BIRTH REGO
PFEFFER, ALFRED  HENRY     Mother - BUCKMAN (Error? – RUCKMAN)
GRO Reference: 1849  S Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 02  Page 70


Mary Ann Pfeffer
Bapt 11 Sep 1853 (born 9 Aug 1851) Shoreditch (parents - Richard Augustus and Mary ann)
BIRTH REGO
PEPPER, MARY  ANN     Mother - RUCKMAN 
GRO Reference: 1853  S Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT  Volume 01C  Page 106


See 1851 census Bethnal Green
Sarah Ruckman age 56 (the mother of Mary) is living with the Peffer family.

Sarah Ruckman (age 65) burial 14 July 1859 St Leonard's, Shoreditch
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 15 November 25 06:24 GMT (UK)

I am chasing myself here.   A Julia Emma Harris Peffer is buried 10 June Hackney  Her birth is 1861    

PFEFFER, JULIA  EMMA     Mother Maiden Name is HARRIS 
the Gro ref is  1861  M Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 97  ???
 
but there is another Julia E on 1881 census!


Yes, two daughters. Second one taking the name of the first after she died.

BIRTH
PFEFFER, JULIA  EMMA     Mother - HARRIS 
GRO Reference: 1861  M Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 97
 
DEATH
PEFFER, JULIA  EMMA HARRIS    Age 3 
GRO Reference: 1864  J Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 89

BIRTH
PFEFFER, JULIA  EMMA     Mother - HARRIS 
GRO Reference: 1868  S Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 74
  
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Saturday 15 November 25 20:37 GMT (UK)
BAPTISMS
William CHarles Pfeffer bapt 4 Jun 1848 Surrey  (Parents - Richard augustus and Mary Ann)
BIRTH REGO
PFEFFER, WILLIAM  CHARLES     Mother - RICKMAN 
GRO Reference: 1848  J Quarter in SAINT OLAVE'S UNION SOUTHWARK  Volume 04  Page 497


Alfred Henry Pfeffer bapt 30 Sep 1849 Shoreditch (parents - Richard Augustus and Mary ann)
BIRTH REGO
PFEFFER, ALFRED  HENRY     Mother - BUCKMAN (Error? – RUCKMAN)
GRO Reference: 1849  S Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 02  Page 70


Mary Ann Pfeffer
Bapt 11 Sep 1853 (born 9 Aug 1851) Shoreditch (parents - Richard Augustus and Mary ann)
BIRTH REGO
PEPPER, MARY  ANN     Mother - RUCKMAN 
GRO Reference: 1853  S Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT  Volume 01C  Page 106


See 1851 census Bethnal Green
Sarah Ruckman age 56 (the mother of Mary) is living with the Peffer family.

Sarah Ruckman (age 65) burial 14 July 1859 St Leonard's, Shoreditch


Thankyou,  :) :)


Birth Rego

PFEFFER, MARIA       Mother's Maiden name: RUCKMAN 
GRO Reference: 1855  M Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT  Volume 01C  Page 120

Maria's Birth & Baptisim date : 12 Mar 1855 and 1 April 1855


I found the 1841 Census

Wllm Ruckman age 45 Sarah Ruckman age 45. Wllm Ruckman 15, Mary Ann 10, Elizabeth 8

Elizabeth Baptised 1832, Mother Sarah Father Willm and looks to have married Edward Charles Pfeffer in 1849, father William Ruckman

There is a Bapt of Mary Ann Ruckman 18 May 1828  birth 11 Jan F: Wlm M: Sarah St. Mary, Newington, Surrey Co., England  would this be too far from Shoreditch?

Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 15 November 25 21:57 GMT (UK)
Yes, I thought this was probably the right baptism, but her age in that 1841 census must be rounded down.
Mary Ann Ruckman baptised 18 May 1828 Saint Mary, Newington
Parents William and Sarah (labourer, Harper Street)

I didn’t find yet when Mary Ann married a Mr. DRURY?

However, did you note, her sister Elizabeth RUCKMAN married Edmund Charles PFEFFER in 1849.
Edmund Charles is brother to your Richard Augustus PFEFFER.
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 15 November 25 22:16 GMT (UK)
DEATH
PEFFER, MARY  ANN              age 29 
GRO Reference: 1859  D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL  Volume 01C  Page 230
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Sunday 16 November 25 00:33 GMT (UK)
Yes, I thought this was probably the right baptism, but her age in that 1841 census must be rounded down.
Mary Ann Ruckman baptised 18 May 1828 Saint Mary, Newington
Parents William and Sarah (labourer, Harper Street)

I didn’t find yet when Mary Ann married a Mr. DRURY?

However, did you note, her sister Elizabeth RUCKMAN married Edmund Charles PFEFFER in 1849.
Edmund Charles is brother to your Richard Augustus PFEFFER.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this little family.

I did know the 1841 census often rounded up or down... 

I found the marriage of her sister to Edmund.

but the same for I can't find the marriage of Mary Ann to a Drury


Interesting family, still lots to look for but just found Richard and Edmund's brother Henry was transported to Australia in 1833 for stealing a Hanky, he marries in Bathurst Aus in 1850... and died in Sydney 1898. 

Name: Henry Pleffer
Gender: Male
Born: 1st January, 1817
Death: 17th April, 1898
Age: 81 years
Occupation: Unknown
Crime: Pickpocket
Convicted at: Old Bailey
Sentence term: 7
Voyage Ship: Waterloo
Voyage: 11th March, 1833
Arrival: 3rd August, 1833
Place of Arrival: New South Wales
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 16 November 25 01:11 GMT (UK)
You will have some of this, but as I typed it up, will post ....

Family of William PFEFFER (vellum binder) and wife Ann Mary Elizabeth SHEPHARD (married 1811)
Baptisms -
•   William John George PFEFFER b. 7 Feb 1813. St Dunstan (Vellum binder, Mile End Old Town)
•   Edmund Charles PFEFFER 1815 Saint Giles Cripplegate (Vellum binder, London Wall)
•   Henry PFEFFER 1817 Saint Luke, Finsbury (book binder, White Cross Street)
•   Walter Pierson PFEFFER 1818 Saint Giles Cripplegate (vellum binder, White Cross Street)
•   Richard Augustus PFEFFER 1822 Saint Giles Cripplegate (Vellum binder, Jewin St)
•   Maria Sarah PFEFFER 1823 Saint Giles Cripplegate (Vellum binder, London Wall)
•   Emma Ann PFEFFER 1826 Saint Luke, Finsbury (Book binder, Philip Lane)
•   Mary Ann PFEFFER 1828 Saint Giles Cripplegate (Vellum binder, Grub St)

BURIAL 8 Feb 1828 Bunhill Row, London
William Pfeffer (46 yrs) Little Moorfields

A couple of notes of interest regarding children -
Walter Pierson PFEFFER (1818) was enrolled in the Greenwich hospital School
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14601759
This implies that his father had served in the Navy at some stage (probably during Napoleonic wars)


Henry Pfeffer / Pleffer (1817) at age 14 in 1831 he was convicted of stealing and sentenced to 7 yrs transportation
https://www.dhi.ac.uk/san/ob/1830s/183110200080.gif
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12326031

Transported on ship “Waterloo” to NSW in 1833 . Certificate of Freedom in 1839
I can see that he married in 1850 in Bathurst, NSW
and there is a death for Henry in NSW in 1898
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/238374248?searchTerm=%22Henry%20Pleffer%22


ADDED -
Ann Mary Elizabeth Pfeffer (nee Shepard) born abt 1789 in Stepney (according to census)
DEATH
PFEFFER, ANN  MARY ELIZABETH    Age 83 
GRO Reference: 1872  M Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 85
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 16 November 25 01:12 GMT (UK)
If it is the same Henry PFEFFER, a licensed hawker,  he was attacked and robbed in 1850 near Bathurst:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/62215082
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 16 November 25 01:17 GMT (UK)
Yep, I think it is the same person. He married in Bathurst in 1850
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: Neale1961 on Sunday 16 November 25 01:19 GMT (UK)
Going back one generation earlier --------

John George PFEFFER married Sarah PEIRSON (Pierson)
2 Feb 1772 Christ Church Spitalfields

BURIAL 26 May 1790 Christ Church Spitalfields
John George PFEFFER (age 50)


Children of John George PFEFFER and wife Sarah PIERSON
•   Sarah 1772 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green
•   Catherine 1774 Christ Church Spitalfields ** (Father a weaver of Wilkes Street)
•   John George 1777 Christ Church Spitalfields (Father a weaver of Wilkes Street)
•   Deborah 1779 Christ Church Spitalfields (Father a weaver of Wilkes Street)
•   Anna Barbara 1782 Christ Church Spitalfields (Father a weaver of Wilkes Street)
•   William abt 1784 (was also known as William SULLY / SOLLY)

** Catherine died unmarried in Dec 1839 and left a WILL – amongst others, she mentions Mary Elizabeth Pfeffer widow of her brother William.
Catherine Pfeffer (WILL proved 1840)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D103466
Title: Re: William Peffer
Post by: CHERAN on Sunday 16 November 25 02:19 GMT (UK)
Wow

What a great help :) 8) Thanks

Cheran