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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: penguins5679 on Friday 14 November 25 02:15 GMT (UK)

Title: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Friday 14 November 25 02:15 GMT (UK)
Hello. Thank you for letting me join this site.

I am trying to find the parents or a birth for Agnes Scott. She married Anthony Halliday in 1924 as Agnes Gertrude Scott at Durham.

In the 1939 Register at 50 Oak Avenue, Durham she is Agnes Isabella G Halliday, born 15 September 1904.

I believe two of her children (Lilian & Robert) were registered under the surname Weir in 1926 and 1928 respectively. Agnes died on 1 December 1956 aged 52 in Durham.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: AllanUK on Saturday 15 November 25 11:32 GMT (UK)
Have you considered purchasing her marriage certificate to Anthony? This would give you the name and occupation of her father. With her father's name, you will be able to search for his marriage details.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 12:35 GMT (UK)

[/s]
SS

post amended
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 15 November 25 12:42 GMT (UK)
She is Isabella Halliday on the electorals
1929, 93 Framwellgate (if this is right)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-RZZP

1939, 50 Oak Avenue
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39V-4SN5-V

1947, 50 Oak Avenue
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39J-1VRM
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 13:04 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat. Just as a small starter all of her children who appear in 1939 do have a mother's maiden name of Scott. Believe Agnes's birth was as below but still checking out,

SS

SCOTT, AGNES  ISABELLA     mothers maiden name STOBBS 
GRO Reference: 1904  S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 200

Baptism gives birth date as 29 May 1904
St Luke, Wallsend
25th June 1904, born 29 May 1904, Agnes Isabella daughter of John Walton Scott, clerk, and Dorothy Scott

Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 13:25 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat. Just as a small starter all of her children who appear in 1939 do have a mother's maiden name of Scott

If I’m looking at the right people, the oldest child has mmn Scott, the other two appear to have Weir  :-\
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 13:59 GMT (UK)
She is Isabella Halliday on the electorals
1929, 93 Framwellgate (if this is right)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-RZZP

Looking more closely at the 1939 entry, her name was originally entered as Isabella Halliday.  Agnes G. was added later.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 14:55 GMT (UK)
She is Isabella Halliday on the electorals
1929, 93 Framwellgate (if this is right)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-RZZP

1939, 50 Oak Avenue
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39V-4SN5-V

1947, 50 Oak Avenue
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39J-1VRM

Thank you, I hadn’t considered the Electoral Registers.

93 Framwellgate would be right as Anthony’s family lived around there at the same time.

Anthony & Agnes’ infant daughter Lilian (the first one) also died there in April 1925.

HALLIDAY, LILIAN       SCOTT 
GRO Reference: 1925  J Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 812

HALLIDAY, LILIAN       0 
GRO Reference: 1925  J Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 446
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 16:00 GMT (UK)
She is Isabella Halliday on the electorals
1929, 93 Framwellgate (if this is right)

How about this latest census --address only--check out occupants.

106, Framwellgate, Durham, Durham, England

1911--35 New Elvet Durham, Elvet, Durham, England

Paddy   Weir   Head   Married   Male   49   1862   Bricklayer labourer   Northumberland
Mary   Weir   Wife   Married   Female   39   1872   -   Bedlington Northd
Bella   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   7   1904   -   Yorkshire Middlesbrough
Kate   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   4   1907   -   Durham City DM
Ada   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   4   1907   -   Durham City DM
Evelen   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   2   1909   -   Durham City DM

SS

added

WEAR, ADA       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEIR, EVELINE       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 402

Births Dec 1917   
Weir    Joseph    Hughes    Durham    10a   693         (as per 1921 census)
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 16:12 GMT (UK)
Quote from: softly softly link=topic=895021.msg7695278#msg7695278 date=


106, [b
Framwellgate[/b], Durham, Durham, England

1901--35 New Elvet Durham, Elvet, Durham, England

Paddy   Weir   Head   Married   Male   49   1862   Bricklayer labourer   Northumberland
Mary   Weir   Wife   Married   Female   39   1872   -   Bedlington Northd
Bella   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   7   1904   -   Yorkshire Middlesbrough
Kate   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   4   1907   -   Durham City DM
Ada   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   4   1907   -   Durham City DM
Evelen   Weir   Daughter   -   Female   2   1909   -   Durham City DM

SS

added

WEAR, ADA       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES   
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEIR, EVELINE       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 402

I think this is the 1911 census, not the 1901?

In the 1921 census Isabella is 17, Patrick’s stepdaughter, born in Sunderland  :-\
.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 16:14 GMT (UK)
Sorry typo re 1901--amended post

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 17:20 GMT (UK)
this looks very promising! (I don’t know how to attach the image) Patrick’s death record shows

Patrick Weir died 106 Framwellgate 21 February 1928 aged 64 years

The informant A. Halliday, son-in-law of 93 Framwellgate
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 17:32 GMT (UK)
this looks very promising! (I don’t know how to attach the image) Patrick’s death record shows

Patrick Weir died 106 Framwellgate 21 February 1928 aged 64 years

The informant A. Halliday, son-in-law of 93 Framwellgate

Now that does look good.

Great find by s.s.

Looking at the censuses, Patrick clearly had no idea how old he was  :D
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 17:53 GMT (UK)
this looks very promising! (I don’t know how to attach the image) Patrick’s death record shows

Patrick Weir died 106 Framwellgate 21 February 1928 aged 64 years

The informant A. Halliday, son-in-law of 93 Framwellgate

Now that does look good.

Great find by s.s.

Looking at the censuses, Patrick clearly had no idea how old he was  :D

Clearly not  ;) I don’t think he had an idea of location either.

1921 census then has him as the one born in Bedlington, not Mary.

Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 17:54 GMT (UK)
I’m not seeing any obvious marriage between Patrick and Mary   ???
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 18:00 GMT (UK)
Death

WEIR, MARY  ANN     aged 59 
GRO Reference: 1928  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 385

SS
 
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 18:10 GMT (UK)
Patrick was born Bedlington. Very comprehensive military record available on FindMyPast

Births Mar 1864 
WEAR    Patrick        Morpeth    10b   298



SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 18:51 GMT (UK)
Military record shows he was in South Africa 1901-2. His nok recoreded as Patrick Weir, Walker Terrace, Bedlington, Northumberland & ELLEN (WIFE) Jamestown, St Helena. Also records he was home by 30.7.1902.

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 19:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you for these.

It looks like he might’ve been in Durham by February 1906. Newcastle Evening Chronicle (14 Feb 1906) mentions Patrick Wear, a cooper lodging at 4 Water Lane.

Twins Ada & Catherine were born 29 October 1906 at 2 Hallgarth Street Durham.

Still a lot of mysteries even with such a small gap 1902-06.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 19:50 GMT (UK)
Military record shows he was in South Africa 1901-2. His nok recoreded as Patrick Weir, Walker Terrace, Bedlington, Northumberland & ELLEN (WIFE) Jamestown, St Helena. Also records he was home by 30.7.1902.

SS

Patrick and Patrick senior are at Walker Terrace in 1881 see RG11/5115/92/44
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 19:54 GMT (UK)
It's still hard work finding out where Isabella was born and under what surname.

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 19:56 GMT (UK)
Just noticed 1911 census has them as married for 15 years.

Is Mary Hughes the same as “Ellen” mentioned in Patrick’s military records?  ???

Or could be a cover up of course.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 15 November 25 20:06 GMT (UK)
Well done SS, great stuff.

WEAR, ADA       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

Twins Ada & Catherine were born 29 October 1906 at 2 Hallgarth Street Durham.

I don't have access to them, but I think there are school records for those two in 1911, father Patrick.
Two schools are quoted though, Durham, St. Oswald, Church Of England Infants School, and    
Barnard Castle Wesleyan Day School ?

Can't find a promising entry for Isabella/Agnes G at those schools though.

Hang on!
There is an Isabel Scott, no birth year in the free index, at Bearpark Board Infants School in 1911.
15 + Sep as keywords brings her up, and also using keywords her father/guardian may be Patrick Weir.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 20:19 GMT (UK)
Well done SS, great stuff.

WEAR, ADA       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424


Hang on!
There is an Isabel Scott, no birth year in the free index, at Bearpark Board Infants School in 1911.
15 + Sep as keywords brings her up, and also using keywords her father/guardian may be Patrick Weir.

Isabel Scott, father/guardian Patrick Weir, 35 New Elvet.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 15 November 25 20:21 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jen. That's her then!
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 20:27 GMT (UK)
Forgot to add birthdate 15 September 1904  :D
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 20:49 GMT (UK)
Possible rabbit hole, please do not laugh ;D

Births Dec 1904   
STANNERS    Isabella        Glendale    10b   523

Baptism

Isabella Stainers   Baptised 9th Feb 1905 Wooler Northumberland, parents William Stainer & Mary SCOTT.

Cannot find a gro ref, also I've spent a fortune last 3 days downloading others gro certs.

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 20:56 GMT (UK)
But we know that Isabella was born in September 1904  :-\
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 20:58 GMT (UK)
But we know that Isabella was born in September 1904  :-\

That's why I posted a freebmd ref for 1904

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 21:03 GMT (UK)
Well done SS, great stuff.

WEAR, ADA       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES 
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

Twins Ada & Catherine were born 29 October 1906 at 2 Hallgarth Street Durham.

I don't have access to them, but I think there are school records for those two in 1911, father Patrick.
Two schools are quoted though, Durham, St. Oswald, Church Of England Infants School, and    
Barnard Castle Wesleyan Day School ?

Can't find a promising entry for Isabella/Agnes G at those schools though.

Hang on!
There is an Isabel Scott, no birth year in the free index, at Bearpark Board Infants School in 1911.
15 + Sep as keywords brings her up, and also using keywords her father/guardian may be Patrick Weir.

Excellent work, thank you  ;D
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 21:05 GMT (UK)
Possible rabbit hole, please do not laugh ;D

Births Dec 1904   
STANNERS    Isabella        Glendale    10b   523

Baptism

Isabella Stainers   Baptised 9th Feb 1905 Wooler Northumberland, parents William Stainer & Mary SCOTT.

Cannot find a gro ref, also I've spent a fortune last 3 days downloading others gro certs.

SS

She is at Ewart Tilesheds in Wooler in 1911 as Stanners :-\
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 21:09 GMT (UK)
Quote
WEAR, ADA       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEIR, EVELINE       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 402

Another longshot

1911 census gives birthplace Middlesbrough.

Isabella Hughes, 3rd q. 1904, Middlesbrough 9d 671

Haven’t followed this any further yet.


Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 21:10 GMT (UK)
Hmm…

BROOKS, ISABELLA  SCOTT     BROOKS 
GRO Reference: 1904  S Quarter in GATESHEAD  Volume 10A  Page 1048
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 21:20 GMT (UK)
Isabella S Brooks married one of these people
Peter Albert

Isabella Scott Alberts
27 Jul 1904
Apr 1992
Gateshead
Tyne and Wear

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 21:29 GMT (UK)
Quote
WEAR, ADA       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEIR, EVELINE       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 402

Another longshot

1911 census gives birthplace Middlesbrough.

Isabella Hughes, 3rd q. 1904, Middlesbrough 9d 671

Haven’t followed this any further yet.


HUGHES, ISABELLA       mmn MCPHERSON 
GRO Reference: 1904  S Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH  Volume 09D  Page 671

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 November 25 21:32 GMT (UK)
Quote
WEAR, ADA       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEAR, CATHERINE       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 424

WEIR, EVELINE       HUGHES
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in DURHAM  Volume 10A  Page 402

Another longshot

1911 census gives birthplace Middlesbrough.

Isabella Hughes, 3rd q. 1904, Middlesbrough 9d 671

Haven’t followed this any further yet.

I spoke too soon. Looks like she died aged one.
Isabella Hughes, 4q 1905, Middlesbrough 9D 392
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 15 November 25 21:36 GMT (UK)
WE must not be afraid to post longshots, better to eliminate than not post.

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Saturday 15 November 25 22:01 GMT (UK)
Not that this is necessarily her birth but I wonder if Hughes could also appear as McCue / McHugh

MCCUE, AGNES   MCCUE
GRO Reference: 1904  S Quarter in LANCHESTER  Volume 10A  Page 386   
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 16 November 25 09:04 GMT (UK)
Just wanting to precise down known facts about Isabella's mother & Isabella.
Please advise if incorrect

Died as Mary Ann Weir aged 59 in 1928= c 1869

1921 aged 54y 6m = c1866 Born Middlesborough

1911 aged 39y = c 1872 Born Middlesborough. Married 15 years (To Whom) 4 children incl Isabella.

Set up home early/mid 1905 followed by twin births in DQ1906

Is she Mary Ann Hughes as per 4 Weir birth mmn Hughes

Did she marry a Mr Scott leading to birth of Isabella.

Was she born Mary Ann Scott. Only real consistant fact is pob in 1911/21 so appears to be native to Northumberland.

---------------

Isabella born 15th September 1904 as per school and 1939 war register.

1911 pob Durham City
1921 pob Sunderland

Married Anthony Halliday

Died  1956 aged 52.

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Sunday 16 November 25 12:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the timeline, that looks pretty spot on.

Mary Ann died 12 Oct 1928 at 106 Framwellgate, informant daughter Catherine. Buried 15 Oct 1928

Agnes/Isabella died 1 December 1956. Buried 4 December 1956 as Agnes Gertrude.

Both buried in Redhills Catholic Cemetery Durham
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 16 November 25 13:26 GMT (UK)
Agnes/Isabella died 1 December 1956. Buried 4 December 1956 as Agnes Gertrude.

A burial image on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-4X8T

Anthony buried April same year
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-4XN2

Sadly, a Lilian Halliday, age 4 hours, in 1925. Residence 93 Framwellgate.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-48ZZ

So she was the Lilian registered with mmn Scott in Durham RD.
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 16 November 25 13:37 GMT (UK)
A triple baptism (catholic, names latinized) in 1915 in Durham of Ada, Catherine and Evelyn Weir.
Father Patrick
Mother Mary, olim Scott (!)
Might be a few sponsors?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3VC-P9QC-T
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 16 November 25 14:00 GMT (UK)
Must confess i have run out of ideas on this.

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: JenB on Sunday 16 November 25 14:03 GMT (UK)

Was she born Mary Ann Scott. Only real consistant fact is pob in 1911/21 so appears to be native to Northumberland.


Pedantry alert  ;D  ;D Middlesbrough isn't in Northumberland, it's in Yorkshire  ;D
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Sunday 16 November 25 14:06 GMT (UK)
Only one sponsor I think?

Anna Moran


If she’s MMN Scott where did Hughes come from  ???
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Sunday 16 November 25 14:20 GMT (UK)
I might be reaching here…

Ann Moran b. 1883 at Framwellgate Moor with an elder brother Michael b. 1883. Both registered in Durham with the maiden name Hughes

Children of Michael Moran & Alice Hughes (b. 1855, Blaydon)
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 16 November 25 15:28 GMT (UK)
Are Anna and Thomas Moran related??

Marriages Dec 1894 
Moran    Thomas        Morpeth    10b   610    
Scott    Mary Ann                 Morpeth    10b   610    

1901--Gladstone Terrace, Bedlington, Morpeth, Durham & Northumberland, England

Thomas   Moran   Head   Married   Male   35   1866   Roadman   Holy Island, Northumberland, England
Mary A   Moran   Wife   Married   Female   32   1869   -   Ulgham, Northumberland, England
Barbara   Moran   Daughter   Single   Female   5   1896   -   Bedlington, Northumberland, England

MORAN, BARBARA       mmn SCOTT 
GRO Reference: 1896  J Quarter in MORPETH  Volume 10B  Page 406

----------

1911
Thomas   Moran   Head   Married   Male   44   1867   Road foreman   Holy Island Northumberland
Catherine   Moran   Wife   Married   Female   46   1865   -   Borrington Ancroft Parish Northumberland
Barbara   Moran   Stepdaughter   Single   Female   15   1896   -   Bedlington Northumberland

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Sunday 16 November 25 15:49 GMT (UK)
13 Jan 1905, Berwick Advertiser

At St. Cuthbert’s Catholic Chapel, Ravensdowne, Berwick, by the Rev. Wm. M. Smythe, Thomas Moran, road foreman, Hetton-le-Hole to Catherine, daughter of Andrew Murray, Berwick

 :(

MORAN, MARY  ANN     33 
GRO Reference: 1903  M Quarter in HOUGHTON-LE-SPRING  Volume 10A  Page 294
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 16 November 25 15:52 GMT (UK)
1871 census for possibly Mary Ann Scott. May have named her own daughter after her mother!

ref 5162 37 13

SS
Title: Re: Help finding Agnes Scott
Post by: penguins5679 on Sunday 16 November 25 16:20 GMT (UK)
Noticed that are these two in the lodging house where Patrick Wear was in 1906.

1901 Census Water Lane, Elvet
Mary Scott, 49, wid, pedlar, Ferryhill
Edith M Scott, 12, dau, South Hetton