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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 19:18 GMT (UK)

Title: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 19:18 GMT (UK)
I have a manifest for Lancelot Rouse - "REJECTED", whatever that means, of 92 St Urbain St, Montreal. He was seemingly heading to stay with his uncle, George Sampson, in Jersey City, in 1924.
What happened to Lancelot after this? I crave to know his future and (hopefully) his descendants.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:27 GMT (UK)


Same name from Urbain Street....??

The Gazette
Montreal, Quebec, Canada 
Wed, 19 Sept 1923
Page 7

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-gazette/184893190/

Sandra

Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:36 GMT (UK)


Could this be him ??

The Gazette
Montreal, Quebec, Canada 
Mon, 26 Apr 1999
Page 56

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-gazette-obituary-for-lancelot-rouse/184893313/

1921 census 163 St Antoine Montreal Quebec.

All Rouse 41 Head. Ireland.
Eva Rouse 34 Wife. USA.
Lancelot Rouse   14   Son. USA.

1931 census 3936 Rivard. Montreal. Quiebec.

Lancelot Rouse   25   Chef (Head)
Germaine Rouse 21 Epouse (Wife)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u38/

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:40 GMT (UK)

Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

Lancelot Felix Rouse (Marriage)  (26 Apr 1930)
Marriage Place   Montreal (Montréal), Québec (Quebec), Canada
Marriage Church   Basilique Notre-Dame; Montréal
Place of Worship or Institution   Basilique Notre-Dame
Father    Henry Rouse- Mother    Alice Lampron - Spouse    Germaine Le Bail.

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:43 GMT (UK)

The Gazette
Montreal, Quebec, Canada 
Mon, 29 May 2000
Page 49

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-gazette/184894319/

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 19:43 GMT (UK)
Oh… he's rather discarded his stepfather, Liebert Gifford?
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:49 GMT (UK)


Is this the correct person ?
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 19:50 GMT (UK)
I'm so delighted that he has 12 lovely great-grandchildren.
It was really his stepfather, Liebert, that I was after, but after all, Liebert sounds to have been a succesfull father, or perhaps stepfather.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 19:51 GMT (UK)
Yes, it sounds to be the right person.
Liebert worked on ships, and later as a sailmaker, etc; he married Lancelot's mother.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:53 GMT (UK)
That wasn't your original question -


Quebec, Canada, Death Registers 1926-1997

Liebert Edward Gifford 21 April 1880  (aged 53 years)
Residence Place   Montreal
Death Date 22 Feb 1934   Montreal (Montréal), Quebec, Canada.

Burial - Notre-Dame, Montreal (Montréal), Québec (Quebec), Canada.
Witness Lancelot Rouse & John McCabe.
Spouse Eva Alice Sampson.

Sandra

Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 19:55 GMT (UK)
It was not indeed; I was wondering about Lancelot because he was Liebert's stepson, and it is good to hear of a happy outcome for him.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 13 November 25 19:59 GMT (UK)

1931 census 3936 Rivard. Montreal

Liebert Gifford 48 Chef (Head)
Eva Gifford   42   Epouse (Wife)

The Montreal Star
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tue, 14 Dec 1937
Page 26

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-montreal-star/184895508/

Marriage

Eva Alice Rouse (Marriage) spouse Liebert Gifford
Marriage Date    (22 Aug 1928)
Marriage Place   Montreal (Montréal), Québec (Quebec), Canada
Marriage Church   Mountain Street; Montréal
Place of Worship or Institution   United Church Mountain Street
Religion   United Church


Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 20:09 GMT (UK)
Merci, Sandra!
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 20:22 GMT (UK)
Liebert, (né 1876 Irlande) était beau-père de Lancelot. Ce Liebert etait l'enfant cheri de sa mère; il a travaillé sur les bateaux de 16 ans d'age.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 13 November 25 20:54 GMT (UK)

Lebirt Gifford born 27 April 1876 in Dublin.  Father Frederick, a solicitor's apprentice.  MMN Burton
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1876/03058/2121155.pdf


Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 13 November 25 20:58 GMT (UK)

Parent's marriage.
Frederick Gifford to Isabella Julia Burton - 27 April 1872
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11307/8148744.pdf



Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Thursday 13 November 25 21:24 GMT (UK)
Sometime in the early days of the internet I found Liebert serving on a ship somewhere in South America aged 16 - I suppose around 1992, but then the internet grew and concealed the record.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: oldohiohome on Thursday 13 November 25 21:46 GMT (UK)

at International Falls, Minnesota
arriving US December 31, 1909
Liebert Giford, 31, b Dublin, sails maker, last permanent residence: Sheho, Manitoba
headed to Cusson, Minnesota
5ft 8in, fair complexion, red hair, blue eyes,

arrived Canada Quebec, on the Emperor of Ireland, March 1907, but boat and date scrached out and replaced with 1900

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK31-VZNF?lang=en


same event, but says Sheho, Sask. as last residence
carrying $25
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CTQN-CYT2?lang=en
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: oldohiohome on Thursday 13 November 25 22:03 GMT (UK)

arrived Canada Quebec, on the Emperor of Ireland, March 1907, but boat and date scrached out and replaced with 1900


the manifest for this arrival doesn't mention 1907 or the ship, but just says he arrived Canada 1900
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: oldohiohome on Thursday 13 November 25 22:05 GMT (UK)
at International Falls, Minnesota
arriving US December 31, 1909
Liebert Giford, 31, b Dublin, sails maker, last permanent residence: Sheho, Manitoba
headed to Cusson, Minnesota
5ft 8in, fair complexion, red hair, blue eyes,

arrived Canada Quebec, on the Emperor of Ireland, March 1907, but boat and date scrached out and replaced with 1900

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK31-VZNF?lang=en


same event, but says Sheo, Sask. as last residence
carrying $25
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CTQN-CYT2?lang=en

-----
Land grant, Saskatchewan, Canada
applied 3 August 1907, granted 11 March 1911
middle name of Edw. is scratched out

-----
age 28
arriving London
embarked: Wellington, New Zealand
8 June 1905 on the Gothic
ports of voyage: New York [from ancestry's index to the record]
occupation: Shreman (?) Slireman? Stereman?
the image says nothing about New York


-----
I can't access this, so I don't know if it is him
Edward Gifford
Publication Date    10 Mar 1900
Publication Place    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Newspaper Title    The Montreal Daily Star

-----
to add to Sandra's post
they were living on Rivard St when married and in 1931

-----
edited to remove some duplication with Sandra's posts earlier, which I had passed over. I think I removed all the duplication.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: oldohiohome on Thursday 13 November 25 22:16 GMT (UK)

I found this:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/183279-liebert-gifford-british-navy/

but when I got to the last post, I realized it was you. :) To quote: " (Around 1998 or so in the earliest incarnation of the internet, I came across a reference to Liebert Gifford working on a boat sailing from Ireland to, I think it was South America at the age of 16; unfortunately the internet ate the reference later and I haven't found it again."

-----
I didn't find the voyage to South America.
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Friday 14 November 25 08:04 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for all this!
Liebert seems to have preferred to live strangely inland for a seaman!
Edward could have been his brother, Frederick Edward Gifford - if there's an age it would be clearer which it was.
There were five of the lads in the Americas at various stages: Liebert (I have no idea where this name came from - perhaps a family name, perhaps from a French branch); Cecil, who became a tragic alcoholic after WWI and died, I think, trying to cross from NY State to get to Liebert; Edward, who went to San Francisco where I've found little about him; Claude, a barrister; Gabriel, an artist, who lived in New York; also their sister Ada, and, briefly, their sisters Helen and Sidney. (I've failed to find Sidney's marriage to Arpad Czira…)
As far as I can track him, Liebert first left home around 16, after an education which included the Metropolitan School of Art and the excellent Dublin school called High School. He worked for the British "Merchant Navy" (British ships sailing around the world collecting and delivering goods).
In 1924 Lancelot Rouse tried to cross into the US, naming Liebert as his father.
In 1928 Liebert and Alice Eva Rouse marry.
(In the 1921 census of Canada, in Montreal, district something like St Autant, the Rouse family includes what looks like Ali(?), Eva and Lancelot - the birthplace of the father is given as Ireland, and everything else about him as Ireland or Irish. I can't read a lot of this, it's very scrawly.)
There are some Rouse births 1879-81 in Ireland listed in the civil records - https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/search/?church-or-civil=all&firstname=&lastname=Rouse+&location=&yearStart=1879&yearEnd=1881&event-birth=1&_day=&month=&mothers-surname=&age-at-death=&relation-0= and there are 205 Rouses in the 1901 census of Ireland http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=Rouse&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&search=Search&sort=countySort&pageSize=100&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&pager.offset=0
(I tried to save the 1921 census page here but the server spat it back.)
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 14 November 25 08:40 GMT (UK)


http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=Rouse&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&search=Search&sort=countySort&pageSize=100&houseNumber=&famil
iesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&pager.offset=0


Use ShrinkLink for long links
https://www.rootschat.com/links/


Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 14 November 25 08:45 GMT (UK)


Parent's marriage.
Frederick Gifford to Isabella Julia Burton - 27 April 1872
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11307/8148744.pdf

Gifford - 1901 census
House 375 in Palmerston Road (Rathmines & Rathgar East, Dublin)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmines___Rathgar_East/Palmerston_Road/1293833/


Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 09:54 GMT (UK)
Liebert, (né 1876 Irlande) était beau-père de Lancelot. Ce Liebert etait l'enfant cheri de sa mère; il a travaillé sur les bateaux de 16 ans d'age.

Translation :-

Liebert (born 1876 in Ireland) was Lancelot's stepfather. This Liebert was his mother's darling child; he worked on ships from the age of 16.

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 09:59 GMT (UK)
Mothers first marriage :-

Alice May Sampson - Spinster -   Marriage Banns (Marriage Bann) 1901
Marriage Banns Place   Saint Mary, Islington: Upper Street, Islington, England
Spouse   Henry James Rouse  - Bachelor -   Parish Register.



Henry James Rouse passed away 1921 Calgary

Alberta Death Index
Name: Henry Rouse - Death Date: 1921
Death Place: Calgary, Alberta, Canada - Registration Number: 640

FIND A GRAVE


Inscription
434110 PTE. H ROUSE 31ST BTN. C.E.F.

Union Cemetery
Calgary, Calgary Census Division, Alberta, Canada
Plot
Section N-Field, Block 9, Lot 34

Bio as per find a grave :- WWI Regimental - 434110
Enlisted Dec. 31, 1914 at Calgary, Alberta in the 31st Battalion and served in France. Severely wounded in 1916. Discharged Dec. 31, 1917, being medically unfit for further service.
Next-of-kin: Mrs. Lizzie Craig, High Rd., Chiswick, London, England.

Son of Mark and Annie Rouse.
Henry James Rouse and Alice May Sampson were married at London, England in 1902.

Father of Henry James Rouse- Mark Rouse - 1840 - 1898 buried :- 

FIND A GRAVE

St Mary the Virgin Churchyard
Merton, London Borough of Merton, Greater London.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/281299445/mark-rouse

The Daily Telegraph
London, Greater London
Thu, 1 Dec 1898
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-daily-telegraph/184932028/




Mark Rouse married twice. First marriage..


Annie Josephine Reeves - Father's Name   John Reeves
Spouse's Name   Mark Rouse - Marriage Date   9 Jan 1870
Marriage Place   Newington, England.

Ann passed 8 th April 1884 Islington London

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=1054279

Father Mark remarried 1887


Mark Rouse - 15 October 1887  (aged 47 years)
Birth Date   abt 1840
Marriage Place   Saint George the Martyr: Borough High Street, Southwark, England
Father   John Beaumont Rouse
Spouse   Susanna Harriet Roberts

Brother Edward Mark Rouse 1872 - passed 1925

FIND A GRAVE

Epsom Cemetery
Epsom, Epsom and Ewell Borough, Surrey.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/187825506/edward_mark-rouse

Edward Mark Rouse married Gertrude Kate Page at the Church of St George Matryn. Southwark.
16/12/1897

Sandra




Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 10:00 GMT (UK)


Death Notice

The Calgary Albertan
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Sat, 5 Nov 1921
Page 19

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-calgary-albertan/184931529/

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 10:03 GMT (UK)
Canadian Attestation Papers for Henry James Rouse - born Wimbledon Surrey. Unmarried at this date.  Next of kin Mrs Lizzie Craig. High Road. Chiswick.  31/12/1914

https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=pffww&IdNumber=605148&ecopy=617577a

Appears on a returning Canadian Passenger list

Henry James Rouse - Henry James Rouse - Henry James Rouse - Labourer - returning to Calgary.
Embarkation Port   Liverpool
Arrival Date   24 Aug 1917 Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Ship   Megantic
Residence Place   Calgary


Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 10:25 GMT (UK)


Newspaper looking for creditors of Mark Rouse.
Will proved by Susannah Harriet Rouse
The Times
London, Greater London.
Fri, 30 Dec 1898
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-times/184931906/

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 10:34 GMT (UK)

A generation further back John Beaumont Rouse (1851 census shows Mark Rouse)

John B Rouse   61   Head
Elizabeth Rouse 59 Wife
James Rouse 22 Son
Henry Rouse 20 Son
Elizabeth Rouse 16 Daughter
Mark Rouse14 Son
Henry Rouse 6 Grandson

John Beaumont Rouse Marriage Date   4 Nov 1811
Marriage Place   Sutton-Valence, Kent, England
Spouse    Elizabeth Town

John Beaumont Rouse passed away 1868

John Beaumont Rouse - 1788 - 1868  (aged 80 years)
Death Registration Place   Hollingbourn, Kent
Death Date   Mar 1868   Kent, United Kingdom
Volume   2a Page   353

Burial - John Beaumont Rouse 1788 - 1868  (aged 80 years)
Death Place   Chart Sutton Kent
Burial Date   21 Mar 1868 - Burial Place   Chart Sutton, England.

Elizabeth Rouse burial 1883

Elizabeth Rouse - 1792 - 1883 (aged 91 years)
Death Place   Chart Sutton Kent England
Burial Date   17 Mar 1883 Burial Place   Chart Sutton, England.

Sandra

Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Friday 14 November 25 11:09 GMT (UK)
Hmm.
But if Henry Rouse was a born Kentishman (or Man of Kent, depending on the area), what would he be doing describing his origin as Ireland and his nationality as Irish in the Canadian census of 1921?
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 14 November 25 11:12 GMT (UK)


Depends who was filling the information in !!  Not all census details were exactly right.
The attestation papers say he was born Wimbledon. Surrey

Sandra
Title: Re: Lancelot Rouse, where are you?
Post by: Abhanliath on Friday 14 November 25 12:04 GMT (UK)
I'm becoming suspicious that the "Rouse" listed in that 1921 Canadian census might actually be Liebert - the name of the paterfamilious seems to be "Alb." - and Liebert is occasionally named as Albert on documents. All the details sound like his: Church of England, born in Ireland, nationality Irish, etc.
He "converted" to Catholicism when he married Eva Alice Rouse (he must have been unaware of the fact that he'd actually been baptised Catholic when he was a sprog).
Attached (if it works) some of the details from the census form. Oh - looking at it again, I think they were in 265 Stantoine Street - oh, St Antoine Street? (maybe St Antoine again after those words).
The attachments didn't work, they were bigger than the 500kb allowed here.