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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: elliot on Tuesday 11 November 25 19:18 GMT (UK)
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Edward Alexander [ALEX] Rippingille
Birth abt 1855 Brighton, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Death 1911
Please can the birth be confirmed?
Some of the family returned to England and married my GF.
I have no idea about the death date accuracy!
I am struggling with this interesting RIPPINGILLE family as three generations appear to have identical names and possibly three marriages for one of them!
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POSSIBLE MOTHER
Elizabeth Bryant
Birth 1825 Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Death 8 AUG 1859 OR 8 OCT 1859 ??? Brighton, Melbourne AUSTRALIA
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Edward Alexander Rippingille appears to have married in 1880 to Florence Amelia Cockhill in Birmingham
Do you have the marriage cert showing his fathers name?
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An Edward Alexander Rippingille b 1826 d 1894 Aston. Cant see a 1911 death for Edward b 1855
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1891 has a James D Rippingille b 1867 Australia. Baptismal record shows him as James Davey Rippingille parents Alexander & Ella nee Bryant
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From the index of BIRTH REGISTRATION in VICTORIA
Registration number 5674 / 1855
Family name: RIPPINGILLE
Given name(s) Edward Alexander
Place of event: BRIGHTON, Australia
Mother's name Elizabeth
Mother's family name at birth BRYANT
Father's Name: , Edward Alexander
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BMD Certificates for VIC available here
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/search-your-family-history
MARRIAGE in Victoria 1851
Edward Alexander RIPPINGILLE to Elizabeth BRYANT
Other children births:
James Davey RIPPINGILLE born 1857 in Brighton
Alice Rose RIPPINGILLE born 1858 in Brighton
Death of Elizabeth RIPPINGILLE (nee Bryant) in Victoria 1859
Age 39 Wife of Alexander
Her father John Bryant
Her death notice
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5685972?searchTerm=RIPPINGILLE
It looks as if the family returned to England sometime after the the death of Elizabeth in 1859.
In 1871 census, they are in Hornsey, Middlesex
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Death and funeral notices for Elizabeth
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5685972
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5686017
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Alexander RIPPINGILLE was a "wholesale spouting manufacturer". Many advertisements for the business on trove:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/
In 1860 he retired from the business:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5685546 (RHS column, near the middle)
And a partnership dissolved in 1860 with James DAVEY
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5690166 (2nd column, near the middle)
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In 1860 he retired from the business:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5685546
And a partnership dissolved in 1860 with James DAVEY
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5690166 (2nd column, near the middle)
He re-married on 30 September 1863 North Meols, Lancashire to Ellen Sidebotham
and goes on to have a second family.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68VS-6X9?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJD8-NW7V&action=view&cc=1465701&lang=en&groupId=
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There is an Alex. RIPPINGILLE arrived July 1850 on the Francis Riley. A letter of thanks to the Captain and crew:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38450862
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Edward Alexander Rippingille and family
1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-V2MT?lang=en
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WCJH-C6Z?lang=en
Edward Alexander Rippingille
Death Date 29 Mar. 1894
Death Place Warwickshire, England
Probate Date 11 Jun. 1894
Probate Registry Birmingham, England
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Edward Alexander Rippingilles second marriage in 1863 gives his father as Edward Villiers Rippingille (artist)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Villiers_Rippingille
Edward Villiers died in 1859. Perhaps another reason that his son returned from Australia?
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An Edward Alexander Rippingille b 1826 d 1894 Aston.
"RIPPINGILLE - March 29, at Elsinore, Sutton Colefield (the residence of his son J.D. Rippingille, who died on the 26th March), Edward Alexander Rippingille, of Westwood, Torquay, and The Highlands, Sutton Coldfield, aged 67."
Monday, Apr. 2, 1894
Publication: The Standard
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You have possibly seen these adverisements:
This one from:
Thursday, May 21, 1896
Publication: Hearth and Home
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The son Edward Alexander Rippingille born 1855 in Australia
Is in 1881 census in Hornsey Middlesex working as a hardware merchant
He married Florence Amelia COCKILL in Aston Warwickshire in 1880
She is a widow by 1911 census.
I can see that Edward A Rippingille comes back to Melbourne in 1907, onboard "Cycle"
It looks as if he died in 1910 in Western Australia
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/147661788?searchTerm=%22edward%20Rippingille%22
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/26264496?searchTerm=%22edward%20Rippingille%22
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Death 1911
I have no idea about the death date accuracy!
There is an Edward Arthur RIPPINGILLE aged 55 died in Lower Blackwood, Western Australia in 1910. On Electoral rolls he appears to be Edward Alexander RIPPINGILLE. :-\
https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-justice/online-index-search-tool
There is an Edward A RIPPINGILLE aged 53 embarked Capetown for Western Australia on the Cycle in June 1907.
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There is an Edward Arthur RIPPINGILLE aged 55 died in Lower Blackwood, Western Australia in 1910. On Electoral rolls he appears to be Edward Alexander. :-\
See my previous post.
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Sorry Neale, missed that!
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Wow!
I wake up this morning to all your very helpful sources and further researches. [I will open all the links this afternoon].
I am needing to rebuild my whole RIPPINGILLE family with better quality sources. I recently spotted an unknown marriage and wife on an Ancestry tree and so needed to check it out and double check my own research that was done decades ago. [No responses from the tree owner].
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/182602647/person/132377797002/facts
https://www.combedown.org/tng/getperson.php?personID=I132377797002&tree=PtNfm2023
Srijah, Christiana
Birth Abt 1830
3rd wife of:
Rippingille, Edward Alexander [2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
Birth Abt 1826 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Gender Male
Married Jul 1863 Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
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BUT the ORMSKIRK marriage is for another wife:
Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%)
Rippingville Edward Alexander Ormskirk 8b 1019
Sidebotham Ellen Ormskirk 8b 1019
I wonder which country the SRIJAH family belongs? Perhaps Edward met her on a stop-off whilst travelling from or to Australia?
Many thanks for all your help.
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Elliot, I would advise that you ignore the trees that you have added links to. It is quite obvious that much of the information on them is just rubbish. There are no supporting sources or documents. There is no evidence of a wife, Christiana Srijah.
Always do your own research, and avoid copying errors or getting confused with errors from others trees.
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Death and funeral notices for Elizabeth
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5685972
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5686017
MADDY
Many thanks for finding this Death Notice for Elizabeth BRYANT [after 8 months of painful illness].
My Ancestry hints has just popped up with the missing marriage for Alex RIPPINGILLE.
and therefore a different mother to my Alice Rose RIPPINGILLE born 24 Nov 1859 to Christiana SRIJAH!
Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Compare details
Name Alice Rose Rippingille
Birth Abt 1858 Brighton, Victoria
Father Alexander Rippingille
Mother Christiana Srijah
Alice Rose Rippingille
Birth 24 NOV 1859 Gippsland, Brighton, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Death 4 MAY 1901 Pinner HENDON Middlesex England
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So good to now have the correct maternal line when before yesterday I had no idea that there was any query!
If I now presume that Christiana might have other SRIJAH family in Australia at this time, how might I proceed? Census, BMD, Newspapers, Passenger lists?
I wonder if there are many SRIJAH in Australia or may be they are from another country India or Ceylon?
Again thankyou to you all!
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Name Alice Rose Rippingille
Birth Abt 1858 Brighton, Victoria
Father Alexander Rippingille
Mother Christiana Srijah
Alice Rose Rippingille
Birth 24 NOV 1859 Gippsland, Brighton, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Death 4 MAY 1901 Pinner HENDON Middlesex England
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So good to now have the correct maternal line when before yesterday I had no idea that there was any query!
If I now presume that Christiana might have other SRIJAH family in Australia at this time, how might I proceed? Census, BMD, Newspapers, Passenger lists?
I wonder if there are many SRIJAH in Australia or may be they are from another country India or Ceylon?
Repeating, that this information appears to be incorrect. Dont rely on bad transcriptions of indexes.
Obtain Alice Roses birth certificate, and read the details yourself. Link for Victorian BMD certificates was provided earlier. There is no point proceeding without correct information.
Do let us know where and when Ancestry thinks there was a marriage to the non- existent Miss Srijah.
I draw you attention to my replies 5 and 6.
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NEALE,
Thank you for your continued interest.
I am confused that you suggest that my relation Christiana SRIJAH is 'non-existent'.
I assure you that I am not reliant upon the trees of others but am following any official resources that I can find such the as her marriage and the Australian Birth Index below. Yes, of course, these may always include spelling and transcription errors, but I have only just today, found these records so that I will now be able to purchase the formal certificates. Do you have, at this stage, additional evidence to be so confidently dismissive?
Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Compare details
Name Alice Rose Rippingille
Birth Abt 1858 Brighton, Victoria
Father Alexander Rippingille
Mother Christiana Srijah
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NEALE,
Thank you for your continued interest.
I am confused that you suggest that my relation Christiana SRIJAH is 'non-existent'.
I assure you that I am not reliant upon the trees of others but am following any official resources that I can find such the as her marriage and the Australian Birth Index below. Yes, of course, these may always include spelling and transcription errors, but I have only just today, found these records so that I will now be able to purchase the formal certificates. Do you have, at this stage, additional evidence to be so confidently dismissive?
Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Birth, Marriage & Death, including Parish
Compare details
Name Alice Rose Rippingille
Birth Abt 1858 Brighton, Victoria
Father Alexander Rippingille
Mother Christiana Srijah
Yes, its definitely important to purchase the birth certificate rather than believe an erroneous transcription. That is where "the evidence" will be found.
I have asked, but you have not provided any information about any Srijah marriage.
Of course, no such document exists.
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I'm not sure where the "Christiana" comes from, but I think it's quite possible "BRIJAH" (as on the Victorian BDM search for Alice's birth) is a mistranscription of BRYANT.
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/search-your-family-history
As Neale says, you need to see the actual certificate.
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I think it is likely that Alice Rose was actually born in SALE. Maybe registered Brighton.
The business dissolution in 1860 between DAVEY and RIPPINGILLE was in SALE (which is in Gippsland Victoria)
The creators of the online trees have it as Brighton, Gippsland. No such place. To my knowledge.
So the records are muddled. Brighton is a beachside suburb of Melbourne
However, on the 1901 census Alice states born in Gippsland.
Alex. RIPPINGILLE must have thought highly of James DAVEY to name his second son after him.
DAVEY was born in Bristol England and died by drowning in 1871 aged 43.
Sue
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Meant to add earlier, it seems clear from the timeline that Alexander RIPPINGILLE did not marry someone else before Alice was born.
1851 - marriage of Alexander RIPPINGILLE and Elizabeth BRYANT
1858 - birth of Alice Rose
1859 - death of Elizabeth RIPPINGILLE (nee BRYANT) "beloved wife of Alex Rippingille"
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Yes, and I'll add that I wonder if Elizabeth died of some complication following on from child birth. She was reportedly ill for 8 months before her death; and Alice Rose was born abt 8 months before her death.
Anyway, the death certificate may clarify that.
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Yes, It would also show the informant on the birth of the child Alice Rose.
To register a birth (be the informant) at that time you did not have to be related to the child.
The child did not need to be present.
You could be a minor.
I do agree with Maddy that the maiden surname of the mother is a mistranscription of BRYANT.
The reason for the wrong given name, Christiana, may be hinted at in the full certificate.
Sue
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There is an Alex. RIPPINGILLE arrived July 1850 on the Francis Riley. A letter of thanks to the Captain and crew:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38450862
MADDY
Many thanks. Once I had learnt how to navigate this very useful TROVE website, and found the RIPPINGILLE arrival listing on the ship FRANCIS RIDLEY. Was this a common practice of the era, to publically thank the crew for a safe arrival?
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Edward Alexander [ALEX] Rippingille
Birth abt 1855 Brighton, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Death 1911
Please can the birth be confirmed?
Some of the family returned to England and married my GF.
I have no idea about the death date accuracy!
I am struggling with this interesting RIPPINGILLE family as three generations appear to have identical names and possibly three marriages for one of them!
It is good that some aspects of your query have been answered.
Unfortunately unless you purchase original documents the rest will remain unclarified.
Ancestry hints and trees and errors won't help. Instead frequently compounding errors and obscuring facts
As mentioned, you need certificates of events if you seek accuracy.
If you need support in the purchase and downloading of images in Victoria, many here will assist.
What you might expect to see on a Victorian birth certificate
Name
Date
Place
Child present or not
By whom registered
Father's name
Father's occupation
Father's age
Father's birthplace
Mother's name
Maiden name
Mother's age
Mother's birthplace
Marriage date
Previous children
Sue
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Ancestry hints and trees and errors won't help. Instead frequently compounding errors and obscuring facts
As mentioned, you need certificates of events if you seek accuracy.
Well said Sue.
There are about 40 public trees for Alice Rose Rippingille on Ancestry, and all have the wrong date of birth for her. Clearly no-one has even bothered to look at the most important primary source:- her birth certificate, which is so easily available online. In some instances, the copying of errors across trees, and the recording of careless and illogical mistakes, is quite outstanding. The trees with the most records and sources attached are the ones with the most problems. This interesting family seems relatively straight-forward to follow through the records, so one wonders why Rippingille descendants dont seem to be interested in accuracy. ???
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Yes, all true Neale.
Also it is astonishing to me that none of the many tree authors regarding Alice, have noticed that Brighton is not in Gippsland. as I mentioned.
And because of logical timeline, there could not have been an extra a wife for Alex, as Maddy has noted above.
In reply to your question elliot.
Was this a common practice of the era, to publically thank the crew for a safe arrival?
Yes, it was common in those times. One's name was added to the thanking list upon request. not compulsorily.
Sue
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Thanks Sue, yes it was quite common to see thank you letters like this. One of my ancestors was a ship's doctor in this era, and it is lovely to read the letters written to him. :D
elliot - I'm not sure what process Ancestry uses in compiling their Australian Birth Index, but obviously an error has occurred in transcribing the Victorian Births Deaths and Marriages Index, which is itself merely a transcription. Whilst Ancestry may give useful hints, it is always best to look for the original documents. Here in Australia we are fortunate to have free access to the different States' indexes, though information available differs fro State to State. A useful guide to what can be found on certificates:
https://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
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SUE, MADDY and NEALE,
So many thanks for your care and understanding of some my stumbling efforts. I hope that I have learnt a little over recent decades! And please forgive my thoughtful ramble below.
As I recently spotted a person that I had never heard of, I resolved to rebuild all of my RIPPINGILLE family tree and with the the help of you good fellows at Rootschat, I have found that it is a far from a simple task and with a surprising number of bear-traps along the way. It is soon apparent that it is impossible to just concentrate upon one person, without at the same time revisiting their context in the rest of the family!
As we know to our expense, that family stories and myths are regularly found to contain much mis-information or even fibs that cover up some shame and that distort any attempts towards the realities and the inaccuracies of our family stories.
Perhaps, that even with our desire to record an intellectualy prove-able accuracy, it is the stories and the imaginations of the ancestors that remains even more fascinating. His-tory is never just about a mathematical spreadsheet.
Other branches of my family are riddled with an arbitary name-changing on the part of the parents. Changes even on the short journey beween baptism and Civil Registration of their children. This name changing tendency has infiltrated the self-concept of most members of the large sibling group, so that these variable versions of their self identity have been past down to several further generations along with further distortions and fantasy story-telling.
Perhaps, my interest in family genealogy is driven by my futile attempts to resolve some of the contradictions found in my own existance. Too many fluid identities and less able to maintain a single focus amonst so many interesting yet different versions.
And then after all our hard work, we die, leaving very little impact upon the universal attraction of myth and fantasy. Such is the similar uphill task to support rationality and a scientific approach when story-telling remains a vivid part of our mental evolution!
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As I recently spotted a person that I had never heard of, I resolved to rebuild all of my RIPPINGILLE family tree and with the the help of you good fellows at Rootschat, I have found that it is a far from a simple task and with a surprising number of bear-traps along the way. It is soon apparent that it is impossible to just concentrate upon one person, without at the same time revisiting their context in the rest of the family!
As we know to our expense, that family stories and myths are regularly found to contain much mis-information or even fibs that cover up some shame and that distort any attempts towards the realities and the inaccuracies of our family stories.
Perhaps, that even with our desire to record an intellectualy prove-able accuracy, it is the stories and the imaginations of the ancestors that remains even more fascinating. His-tory is never just about a mathematical spreadsheet.
I, and I think I can say others helping you in this query, believe the accurate facts make a better family history than a collection of nice stories. Although enjoyable and often colourful, the nice stories are just enrichment, not replacement.
Assuming when you say "the person I had never heard of ..." you mean Christiana Brijah, I hope you no longer mistake her for an existing identity.
Best wishes for now.
Sue
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Perhaps, that even with our desire to record an intellectualy prove-able accuracy, it is the stories and the imaginations of the ancestors that remains even more fascinating.
Fact is much more interesting and compelling than Fantasy.
Truth is stranger than Fiction
(Mark Twain)
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Found this in my previous notes so will post.
When closing his business in 1860 Alex noted his successors would be Messrs Sparey and Bryant, previously in his employ.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/5685595?searchTerm=%22Alex%20rippingile%20%20%22
The man BRYANT was William BRYANT.
I would think it likely he was in some way related to Alexander's wife Elizabeth.
Sue
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The man BRYANT was William BRYANT.
I would think it likely he was in some way related to Alexander's wife Elizabeth.
Sue
Yes Sue, I reached the same conclusion. I didnt bother posting or going any further, because that would involve the terrifying and impossible prospect of acquiring a certificate. :o
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;D ;D ;D