RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: raggyroo on Tuesday 11 November 25 14:53 GMT (UK)

Title: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Tuesday 11 November 25 14:53 GMT (UK)
hi sorry if im in the wrong place its my first time try to get somewhere with english records.

im trying to trace a william wales and his parents and any siblings he may have had.

if my reserch is correct so far william was in the millitary and married a scottish girl so what i have so far is as follows

think his mother may have been a rose wales but havent found anything on a father as of yet

william wales B 30 july 1884 hackney london
                     M  october 1914 portsmouth  hamshire
                      D 1 june 1935 dundee scotland
dundee is also where his wife is from

i also think i may have found a millitary entery saying he joined nov 1900 but not sure if defently him or not.

any help would be really appreaited as im really unsure of how english records work only done scottish till now

raggyroo
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: nanny jan on Tuesday 11 November 25 14:58 GMT (UK)
His marriage certificate should show the name and occupation of his father. Sometimes a family member (brother, cousin etc) appears as a witness.

Using that information you can look for him on English census records.
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 November 25 15:07 GMT (UK)
His marriage on familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6NXX-4Q6V?lang=en

William Wales
Age   30
Residence Place   Submarine Depot
Occupation -Leading Seaman R N
Father Deceased

Lydia Wales Anderson
Age   22
Abode 43 Newcomers Road
Father Alexandrea Anderson
Father's Occupation   Labourer
Witnesses    Mary Agnes Rink & Arthur Hurrell Forster
Date of marriage 5 Dec 1914
Note   Licence
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 11 November 25 15:09 GMT (UK)
Red post, will continue as transcription is misleading about father.

Details from parish marriage register
St Marks Portsmouth 5 Dec 1914
William Wales 30 bach Leading Seaman RN Submarine Depot (details for father blank)
Lydia Coutts Anderson 22 spinster 48 Newcomen Rd father Alexander Anderson labourer
witnesses Mary Agnes Rink & Arthur Hurrell Forster

Lack of info on father implies he was illegitimate.
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Tuesday 11 November 25 15:10 GMT (UK)
thank you

rosie99 thank you for that so much i will go look at the cert

thank you raggyroo
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 11 November 25 15:16 GMT (UK)
The birth certificate has been added to the Ancestry website and confirms that his mother is Rose Wales, no mention of a father
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Tuesday 11 November 25 15:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you osprey i did wonder if that was the case as i just wasnt finding anything concrete other than their marriage only because of the bride.  i wonder how they met and maybe need to see why she was so far from home and living somewhere else at time of marriage as the both came back to dundee scotland and both died their too. think im just that unsure of english records i didnt know where to start other than ancestry but that can be wrong too sometimes

raggyroo
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 11 November 25 16:37 GMT (UK)
If you have access to Ancestry, take a look at the records for Rose Wales in the London Metropolitan Archives.
There is a reference to William Wales born July 1884, admitted to workhouse Saturday 13 Sept 1884 with mother Rose b. 1863, both admitted from infirmary.
Both admitted from the infirmary again Wed 18 Feb 1885.

Also a school record from Sidney Road School dated 18 July 1892 for William Wales born 29 July 1884 father William living at 40 Cadogan Terrace.
I've checked the 1891 census for that address and no William or Rose there.
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Tuesday 11 November 25 19:20 GMT (UK)
osprey thank you so so much i do have access to ancestry so i will go look at those records i cant thank you all enough for your help
raggyroo
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 11 November 25 19:52 GMT (UK)
 some info on the infirmary here

https://horridhackney.com/f/hackney-poor-law-union-workhouse-hackney-hospital-1841-1930

https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Hackney/
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Tuesday 11 November 25 20:28 GMT (UK)
thank you for the info osprey
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 11 November 25 21:02 GMT (UK)
The military/naval record is likely to be him as it notes place of birth as hackney. DOB is 30 Jul 1884 which just about matches the workhouse and school records found earlier

1901 census he's a boy under training on HMS Lion, a training ship in Devonport
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 11 November 25 21:10 GMT (UK)
Rose's mother is noted on her workhouse records - Emma Wales, 48 Lamprie (?) St, Old Ford

1891 possibility? 486 Old Ford Road, Stratford Le Bow St Mary

Emma Wales    47    widow b Hoxton
Rose Wales    29    Daughter, single b Kingsland. Domestic servant (cook)
Ellen Wales    13    Daughter b Old Ford
Arthur Wales   6    Son   b Old Ford
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 12 November 25 16:40 GMT (UK)
1881 no Rose
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-RN6Q?lang=en

1871 with Rose
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB6Z-H9X?lang=en

Likely death reg for Charles Wales age 53 march qtr 1889 Poplar vol 1c pg 367

School record dated 26 Aug 1895 Sidney Road School for Arthur Wales born 10 Jan 1885, guardian -
mother, a widow address 28 Powerscroft Rd.
1901 census at same address
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9C7-373?lang=en
implying that Emma has married William Potts but haven't spotted the marriage as yet. Also, Potts was Emma's maiden name
birth reg
Rosa Wales dec qtr 1860 Shoreditch mmn Potts
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 12 November 25 21:19 GMT (UK)
It looks very much like she died and was buried as Emma Wales in 1916
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Wednesday 12 November 25 21:25 GMT (UK)
i cant thank you all enough for all your help i was totaly lost and had no idea where to start with tracking own records

kind regards raggy
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: raggyroo on Wednesday 12 November 25 21:27 GMT (UK)
It looks very much like she died and was buried as Emma Wales in 1916

so you think rose changed her name to her mothers and emma was the name given when she died
Title: Re: william wales
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 12 November 25 22:21 GMT (UK)
No. I was talking about her mother, who appears to have the surname Potts in 1901 and 1911 as per Osprey's post, but no marriage could be found