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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: GillianF on Monday 10 November 25 08:33 GMT (UK)
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A bit of a mystery. I have been researching the Hume family for many years. My husband's great uncle was Roderick Stuart Hume born 5th August 1884. In the 1901 census he is in school with two of his brothers and it makes sense, fits with the family folklore.
Recently, Ancestry threw up a record of an R. S. Hume born 5th August 1884 as an apprentice in the railway records for Cheadle Hulme Station Coaching Section. The record says he entered service on 14th March 1900 transferred from Handforth on 1st December 1900 and resigned 19th January 1901 - if I understand it correctly.
I have asked Roderick's grandson if he has any memory of hearing of this in the family and he says it makes no sense to him, he has never heard mention of it.
So, I'm wondering if there can be two R. S. Hume's with the exact same birth date or is this the same man giving an apprenticeship a try or on some sort of early work experience scheme?
Gillian
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What kind of school was he in? Just thinking he would have left school before then in those days.
I guess there could be another R S - can you find any evidence of another one? Pity we don’t know what the initials are on the railway entry.
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How about going back to check the birth records online.
LM
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The school in the 1901 census was Wem Grammar School in Wem, Shropshire and makes sense as 'right' as he is there with his brothers and Wem was the home town of their father's second wife.
I have looked at the birth records on line but with only initials of R. S. the GRO site doesn't throw up anything. I'm not sure if family history websites would throw up records using just initials and no place of birth?
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The 1901 Census entry for the three Hulme brothers shows birthplace as Ireland. Address is Grammar School, High Street, Wem.
RG13/2552, folio 5, page 2
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I cannot see another R.S. Hu*me in the 1901 census.
It does seem most odd, especially given his subsequent career as a bank manager.
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I would look at the circumstances of the father at this time. Did he have some loss of employment in pre-1900, and then recover financially by 1901. This might be why the son was first apprenticed to the railway (to help support the family), and subsequently sent to a Grammar school which must have required some cost to this father.
I see his father was previously in the army, and had been discharged in 1890. What was he doing from then until 1901? Perhaps it was not until 1901 that he started to earn a larger income, which then allowed him to give the boys a grammar school eduction.
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Have you the birth record of your husband's great uncle?
Born at Barrack Hill, Armagh, father Edward Winter Hume, a warrant officer in the Royal Irish Fusiliers. Mother Cathrine nee O'Hanlon.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1884/02683/1988068.pdf
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Name Roderick Stuart Hume
Jul-Aug-Sep Birth Date1884
Birth PlaceArmagh, Ireland
Birth Registration DateSep 1884
There is nothing similar in UK.
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The railway employment register is a Salaried Staff Register, including clerks.
Perhaps he wanted to try out that career and changed his mind and joined his brothers in school.
He is a banker’s clerk in 1911.
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Name Roderick Stuart Hume
.....................
Birth Registration DateSep 1884
???
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Name Roderick Stuart Hume
.....................
Birth Registration DateSep 1884
???
The full details are in my reply 🤔
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Have you looked at what was actually happening with the railways at that time?
I have only had a brief look but it does seem that in the Cheadle/Handforth/Stockport area there was still a lot of railway expansion taking place with changes to the main lines and competing railway companies.
This links to the Railway Map of Manchester in 1907, Cheadle is basically a crossroads with limited potential. No significant railway works are shown, so maybe his job had very limited and at best only short term prospects, hence the change.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/245958604
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The 1901 census has the head of Wem Grammar school as Joseph Oline 39 b Manchester .
In 1900, the school had an annual income of £269 and the school was presided over by Joseph Ohm M.A.
I am sure this is the school. There is a photo taken in 1902, could the brothers have still been there ?
http://www.wemlocal.org.uk/wempast/buildings/adams.htm
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Going back to the job which no one seems to have known about, as I wrote earlier he may have just been trying it out and persuaded/decided to go back to the grammar school.
If he didn’t discuss it with his family, maybe he just thought it not worth mentioning.
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An interesting set of replies, suggestions and research. I have spoken to Roderick's grandson who was quite close to his grandfather and he has no recollection of railways ever being mentioned and seems sure he would have heard it or remembered it. I have researched this whole Hume family extensively and wrote the following as part of a wider, fuller biography:
"In the 1901 census the three Hume boys at Wem Grammar School are aged 16 years old, 15 years old and 12 years old respectively.
Family folklore says that Edward’s sons spent school holidays in school because the headmaster was a friend of Edward. The assumption was that Edward was in the army and/or a single parent (his first wife, Catherine, had died) and could not provide a home for the boys during school holidays. The fact the census return for the school showed only 14 boys present and the ‘family folklore’ suggesting the three boys were in school during holidays led me to look a little more closely at the matter. Census night for 1901 was Sunday 31st March. Good Friday was 5th April so it may be some of the boys had left for the end of term holidays and those remaining were waiting to leave/be collected or spending the holidays in school.
Having confirmed Roderick and his brothers were in school I looked at some information from the school’s archives. One particular document says the headmaster in 1901 was Joseph Ohm and it seems he was a very well-respected head. Joseph Ohm is confirmed as the head in the 1901 census. Was he a friend of Edward? As Elizabeth (Edward's second wife after the death of his first, Irish wife who was the mother of all his children) was very much a local girl from a local family in Wem it seems possible Edward and Elizabeth did know Joseph and his family but whilst all the Ohm children were born in Wem neither Joseph nor his wife were born there.
There would seem to be no particularly good reason why the boys were not at home for the holidays as Edward and Elizabeth were, in 1901, at The George Hotel in Stockport. Edward gives his occupation as 'publican' working on his own account (i.e. working for himself) and "at home" which meant he also lived on the premises. Elizabeth Hume is also at the hotel along with Edward's two daughters: Eugenie aged 21 years old and a saleswoman and Alice at 18 years old with no occupation given. The rest of the household are staff occupied with the running of the hotel and all seem to be locals or from Elizabeth's home in and around Wem in Shropshire. Roderick’s older brother, Edward (known in the family as Ned) was in the army in 1901. Apart from the four family members at the hotel there are seven servants living and working in the hotel and no guests which might suggest it was closed until the Easter weekend.
Wem Grammar School is now The Thomas Adams School incorporating Adams College 6th Form Centre.
Roderick’s military service record tells us that just a year after the 1901 census, on 24th March 1902 he joined the 1st West Yorkshire Royal Engineers (Volunteers) as a Sapper. He would have been aged 18 years old but he was following a well-worn path given that his grandfathers, father and older brother were all military men. At the same time as being a volunteer Roderick was, I believe, working in a bank. The records show that on 12th November 1904 he left as a Corporal in the 3rd City Battalion of the King’s Liverpool Regiment and the reason given was “leaving City of Sheffield for promotion in the bank”.
I have Roderick in the 1911 census but not found him in 1921. As no other birth records show an R. S. Hume born in 1884 or appearing in census returns it seems certain the railway record is right but remains 'odd'. Is it possible he dipped out of school for a few months to try his hand at manual work with an apprenticeship and then went back to school? Would his father (an ambitious, pretentious man from my research) have allowed this and would the school have supported it although if Ohm was a friend of Roderick's father he might have been persuaded to go along with the idea. I'm thinking out loud on this .........
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The full details are in my reply 🤔
Full details are not in your reply. Kiltaglassan had in previous post put a link to the actual record (not the index details you posted).
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I have a photo of Roderick and his brothers said to be in school uniform. The photo on the Wem Grammar School website is not clear enough but my husband's grandfather (the youngest boy) could well be in it.
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Roderick’s military service record tells us that just a year after the 1901 census, on 24th March 1902 he joined the 1st West Yorkshire Royal Engineers (Volunteers) as a Sapper. He would have been aged 18 years old....
Born 5 August 1884 so 17 yrs old on 24/3/1902.
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The 1901 Census entry for the three Hulme brothers shows birthplace as Ireland.
Thomas Ross Hume born 5 March 1886.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1886/02617/1965879.pdf
Claud Lionel Hume born 8 December 1888. Edward Hume now a sergeant major in the Royal Irish Fusiliers.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1888/02498/1926382.pdf
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Thank you for the correction on his age and baptism records. I will add the information and documents to my files.
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Thank you for the correction on his age and baptism records. I will add the information and documents to my files.
Civil birth records were attached.
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Yes, thank you. I followed the links and have downloaded the documents. I don't think these were available (or I didn't find them) when I did my original research - some years ago now.
Gillian
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Civil birth records in Ireland back to 1864 have been available free since at least 2016 ( and possibly earlier).
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/
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My research into the Irish ancestors was done pre-2016 and although I did get a lot of information it was a struggle. Perhaps a 're-visit' is required.
Thank you.