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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: cornishwalker on Saturday 08 November 25 20:40 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I'm trying to work out why there is a strange place of birth for my G.Grandfather
On his pension record for 14-18 war it has place of birth
Duetta, Balichestown
or thats what ancestry makes it it could be Quetta
Can anyone give me an idea why this would be on his records
Thanks in advance
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On his pension record for 14-18 war it has place of birth
Duetta, Balichestown
Quetta is in the Pakistani province of Balochistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetta
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Hi
Thank you, but this is totally confusing as I know he was British and his mother came from Brighton. His father has been a mystery but I have finally traced him as Frank Edwards so I have no idea how there is a reference for birth in Quetta. The records are correct as I have his medals and the service number is on them....Hmmmm another puzzle.
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If the father was also in the military or had certain professions that sent him across the world the family could have travelled to different countries. My grandparents were both British but had their children in multiple different countries due to military travel. The children are nevertheless still British and now live back here in the UK.
If his mother raised him without the father, it could be another member of the family (such as grandfather) or his mother may have had the profession, such as being a servant to a rich family able to move around.
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Thank you, I will keep looking, His father was an architect in London and I have no other military people in the tree, He did not have a birth cert after he married and this could be why the place is so strange. another of the great family tree mysteries....:-)
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If you would like help, then you would need to post name, dates, place, WW1 details, etc.
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Victor Luck 445 rifle brigade
born 1886
enlisted 25.4.1904
Army reserve 24.4.1907
Mobilised 5 august 1914
please ask if you need anything else
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As Neal says, nobody can do much to help without some names and dates.
Were his parents married when he was born. If not you should look for his birth in his mother's maiden name. Could his mother have been one of the many women who went out to India at that time to work, often for military families. That could explain a birth in Quetta which at that time was India, Partition was not until 1947.
Have you found his mother in all the appropriate Census prior to his birth.
As Ayashi has already told you, you can be born in different countries and still be British. My own family are all British but born in Malta, Gibraltar, Singapore,Hong Kong, Canada, Grenada and Africa to name but a few countries. It is the same with most military families.
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You mention his pension record but do not say if you have read his service record where he names his father as Robert Henry Luck.
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Yes, he lied about being born in Quetta India when he attested for the military in 1904. He also lied about his age. He may have wanted to disguise his true identity, because he was under age. Perhaps he thought if he gave the wrong place of birth, nobody could do a check on his age. He probably did not have his parents' permission to join the military.
Many young men did lie about their age, or give other false information, when they attested, for various reasons.
Don't rely on Ancestry transcripts. Read the actual record.
All his census records give his birth in Edmonton or Enfield or Wimbledon.
His BIRTH CERT.
HARMAN, LEVI PRINCE VICTOR -
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 403
His mother was Rose Florence HARMAN born 13 June 1862 Surrey.
His adoptive father was Robert Henry LUCK born 8 Nov 1862 Ealing.
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Hi,
You may already have done this but Findmypast has the original record to view, you may be able to see it for free at the moment.
The record definitely gives his birth as Quetta, and Bengal is corrected to Balochistan, so no real transcription error there, and it is repeated on his medical record, and gives his father’s name and his own marriage.
Perhaps it is the subsequent census records that are at issue.
When did his parents marry?
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Looks to me as if the only info you can assume is genuine fact may be the abodes on the census records ??? All the rest could be hearsay ... Apart from his mother of course.
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Possible parents marriage,
Marriages Dec 1897 )
Edwardes Rose Florence Kensington 1a 397
Luck Robert Henry Kensington 1a 397
SS
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Info only 1891 census
Piece 138
Folio 135
Page 6
Frank Edwards 29 Head
Rose Edwards 28 Wife
Prince Edwards 3 Son
William Herman 71 Father in law
William Herman 32 Brother-in-law
SS
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Don't rely on Ancestry transcripts. Read the actual record.
All his census records give his birth in Edmonton or Enfield or Wimbledon.
His BIRTH CERT.
HARMAN, LEVI PRINCE VICTOR -
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 403
His mother was Rose Florence HARMAN born 13 June 1862 Surrey.
His adoptive father was Robert Henry LUCK born 8 Nov 1862 Ealing.
Levi Prince Victor Harman-Luck Age 17
Birth Date 6 Aug 1889 (looks as if year should read 1887)
Residence Date 2 May 1907
Station Baynards
Company London, Brighton and South Coast
Description Traffic staff: register of appointments 1856 - 1907
UK, Railway Employment Records, 1833-1956
Same date of birth for Levi V Luck on 1939 register
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Info only 1891 census
Piece 138
Folio 135
Page 6
Frank Edwards 29 Head
Rose Edwards 28 Wife
Prince Edwards 3 Son
William Herman 71 Father in law
William Herman 32 Brother-in-law
For info.
Rose Harman
Baptism 2 Nov 1862 Godalming, Surrey,
Father William Harman, carpenter Mother Elizabeth
Prince Edwards Age 5
Birth Date 12 Aug 1887
Admission Date 9 Jul 1893
School Holy Trinity School
Father Frank, abode 16 Winchester Terrace
London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
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Prince Edwards was admitted to Holy Trinity School Westminster London on 9 July 1893
Dob 12 /8/87.
Parent Frank. 16 Winchester Terrace . Last school St Stephen's.
So he was educated well.
What happened to Frank Edwards
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LADYHAWK. We got there together 😆
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Chance, or is this him as well?
First name(s) Levi
Last name Harman
Relationship Boarder
Marital status -
Sex Male
Age 4
Birth year 1887
Birth town London
Birth county Middlesex
Birth county as transcribed LONDON
Birth place England
Occupation -
Full address 132, Lynton Road, Bermondsey, St Olave Southwark, London & Surrey, England
House number 132
Street Lynton Road
Parish Bermondsey
City Bermondsey
County London, Surrey
Country England
Registration district St Olave Southwark
Sub district St James Bermondsey
Enumeration district 25
Parliamentary borough or division Southwark
Ecclesiastical parish or district St Annes
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 378
Folio 111
Page 10
Schedule 64
Record set 1891 England, Wales & Scotland
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Yes he has a number of names
Prince Levi Victor Harmon (Harman) Luck
An enigma in the tree. He is listed a Edwards with Frank Edwards as his father but no marriage between Frank and his mother Rose Harmon, his birth cert is Harmon
I have had DNA results with others from the Edwards line that confirm a relation to the edwards
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I read that other 1891 entry as RENI Harman, possibly born France.
SS
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Yes he has a number of names
Prince Levi Victor Harmon (Harman) Luck
An enigma in the tree. He is listed a Edwards with Frank Edwards as his father but no marriage between Frank and his mother Rose Harmon, his birth cert is Harmon
I have had DNA results with others from the Edwards line that confirm a relation to the edwards
Is there a place of birth on the certificate.
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I did wonder about the transcription, but it seems to be Do, F*?
So in London somewhere.
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Chance, or is this him as well?
First name(s) Levi
Looking at the original, the word definitely starts with the letter'R'. It looks like Remi or possibly Rene to me.
I though S.S. had already established that the person in question was with his mother and family in 1891 (reply 13)
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Thank you, I will keep looking, His father was an architect in London and I have no other military people in the tree, He did not have a birth cert after he married and this could be why the place is so strange. another of the great family tree mysteries....:-)
Which father was an architect.. Frank Edwards or Robert Henry Luck.
Where did you find that information.
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Frank Edwards was the architect and from a census, sorry out and about at the mo so I dont have records with me
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That was rather why I put chance in my post.
This is obviously a somewhat complex family, and I would say this is worth a small amount of follow up.
Looks like a child living with relatives.
The OP might recognise the other surnames
I have found many people in unexpected places over the years, following exactly these kind of chance finds.
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I thought this sounded familiar - we have done some of this research before
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=889850.msg7635337#msg7635337
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Thank you, I will keep looking, His father was an architect in London and I have no other military people in the tree, He did not have a birth cert after he married and this could be why the place is so strange. another of the great family tree mysteries....:-)
Which father was an architect.. Frank Edwards or Robert Henry Luck.
Where did you find that information.
There is information about this on the other thread (my previous post).
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I thought this sounded familiar - we have done some of this research before
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=889850.msg7635337#msg7635337
:) Thank you for posting a link to the other thread JenB it saves me posting the info . I had found on the wrong Frank Edwards ::)