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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ray T on Friday 07 November 25 14:49 GMT (UK)

Title: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ray T on Friday 07 November 25 14:49 GMT (UK)
Arthur Rhodes was born in Stockport on 1/11/1893; according to his baptism which took place at Christ Church, Heaton Norris (the inaccessible spire on the A6) on 28/3/1894. At the time, the family was living at Higher Bury Street (just west of what is now B&Q) and in 1911 at Longsight Street (now beneath the B&Q car park).

At the end of January 1916 Arthur enlisted but married Edith Lowe at St Matthew, Edgeley on 17/6/1916 prior to serving in Egypt between 3/7/1916 and 30/5/1919. At the end of this, he claimed to have a "Disordered Action of Heart" allegedly "Caused by bullet wound in chest". He gave his address as 7 Farmer Street, Heaton Norris - where hs wife's family had lived for some years.. The medic examining him apparently found no evidence of a gun shot wound in the chest and stated that "Heart is normal"

In 1921, his wife was still at Farmer Street, claiming to be married but he is missing. In 1939, His wife  is living at All Saints Road with her widowed mother, Catherine, claiming to be single and has reverted to her maiden name. (If you look at this be careful - there are two people named Edith Lowe the one you want was born in 1897).

The simple question is - what happened to Arthur - I can find nothing of him after his spell in the forces during WW1.

Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: amondg on Friday 07 November 25 15:24 GMT (UK)
When did his mother Hannah die?  was there a notice in the paper that mentions relatives.

The same with his father who if I have the correct man is still alive 1921. An article might mention
children of the deceased.
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Friday 07 November 25 15:25 GMT (UK)
Just reporting a negative result. In 1921 his (remarried) father John plus two of his brothers are at 24 Athens Street, Stockport, but there is no sign of Arthur.
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 07 November 25 16:10 GMT (UK)
His sister Edith Ellen Rhodes married in 1915 a James Willock, two of the witnesses were
Arthur Rhodes & Alice Bosson Rhodes (her siblings)
 
Take a look at the latest census in Stockport, Cheshire for
Arthur Bhodes 1899 Stockport, Cheshire or Edith Ellen Willock 1891 Stockport, Cheshire
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 07 November 25 16:17 GMT (UK)
Arthur Rhodes was born in Stockport on 1/11/1893; according to his baptism which took place at Christ Church, Heaton Norris (the inaccessible spire on the A6) on 28/3/1894. At the time, the family was living at Higher Bury Street (just west of what is now B&Q) and in 1911 at Longsight Street (now beneath the B&Q car park).

At the end of January 1916 Arthur enlisted but married Edith Lowe at St Matthew, Edgeley on 17/6/1916 prior to serving in Egypt between 3/7/1916 and 30/5/1919. At the end of this, he claimed to have a "Disordered Action of Heart" allegedly "Caused by bullet wound in chest". He gave his address as 7 Farmer Street, Heaton Norris - where hs wife's family had lived for some years.. The medic examining him apparently found no evidence of a gun shot wound in the chest and stated that "Heart is normal"

In 1921, his wife was still at Farmer Street, claiming to be married but he is missing. In 1939, His wife  is living at All Saints Road with her widowed mother, Catherine, claiming to be single and has reverted to her maiden name. (If you look at this be careful - there are two people named Edith Lowe the one you want was born in 1897).

The simple question is - what happened to Arthur - I can find nothing of him after his spell in the forces during WW1.

Thanks for looking.

There is a notice in the Stockport Advertiser 1 May 1931 about an Arthur Rhodes of Price St, Ancoats. He was supposed to have appeared in court but failed to show. It is alleged he committed suicide. Another article suggests he was under an affiliation order.  Maybe worth further investigation?
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Kay99 on Friday 07 November 25 17:05 GMT (UK)
The report of his suicide is in the Stockport County Express dated 23 April 1931 and describes Arthur as aged 36 and of 48 Price Street  Ancoats - a florists salesman in Smithfield Market.   Mrs Rhodes last saw him on Saturday morning when he left home early
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Friday 07 November 25 17:10 GMT (UK)
Added: same as Kay99’s post, but text included.

The occupation fits with that of the man in 1921 identified by Ladyhawk.


23 April 1931: Stockport County Express
Quote
DUE AT STOCKPORT POLICE COURT.
MAN IN ARREARS FOUND HANGED
A man who should have appeared at Stockport Borough Police Court on Saturday on a charge of arrears under an affiliation order, but failed to do so, was found on Monday hanging from a beam in a warehouse at 53a Tib-street, Manchester. He was Arthur Rhodes (36), a florist's salesman in Smithfield Market, living at 46 Price-street, Ancoats.

At the inquest on Wednesday it was stated by Constable Pearce that on April 16 he apprehended Rhodes under warrant at Smithfield Market. He cautioned and charged him at Cavendish-street police station with arrears under an order amounting to £15 15s. He was bailed out in the sum of £5 to appear at Stockport. Rhodes seemed quite normal, and said the reason he had not paid the money was that his wages had been reduced 10/- per week.

Mrs. Rhodes stated that her husband left home early on Saturday morning, and that was the last time she saw him alive. A verdiet of suicide while of unsound mind was recorded by Mr. P. Ridgway Bennett, Manchester Deputy City Coroner.
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 07 November 25 22:52 GMT (UK)
For info. the death certificate is available  to download from GRO as a digital image cost £3.00

RHODES, ARTHUR       36 
GRO Reference: 1931  J Quarter in MANCHESTER NORTH  Volume 08D  Page 651
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 08 November 25 00:51 GMT (UK)
The death cert is needed as the 1931 death shows a birthyear of 1895 & there is another Arthur Rhodes birth in Stockport which fits the birth year of the above death

Births Dec 1893   
Rhodes    Arthur     Stockport    8a   38   mmn Bossons  (parents Hannah & John)
Births Dec 1895 
Rhodes    Arthur     Stockport    8a   2       mmn Dent (???)
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Kay99 on Saturday 08 November 25 04:29 GMT (UK)
The Arthur Rhodes b 1895 Stockport was actually born in Marple Cheshire(part of the Stockport Reg District) the son of Frank Septimus Rhodes and Katherine nee Dent.   He died in WW1 in May 1915 and there are is a report of his life and death by his father in the Stockport Advertiser and Guardian 4 May 1915
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 08 November 25 07:31 GMT (UK)
Also compare 1893 mmn Bossons with name of witness in reply#3, Alice Bosson Rhodes.
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ray T on Saturday 08 November 25 08:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all the replies, lots to think about but I’m off to Northumberland tomorrow morning so further research will have to wait.

One thing you have however confirmed is that there are several “Arthur Rhodes” and, unfortunately Kay99, he wasn’t the one from Marple - his military records confirm that he survived WW1 and I’m sure I have the right one there. I have more or less concluded that Bossons was his MMN.

The discovery about the suicide/flower salesman is interesting. The thing putting me off is the mention of an attestation order - so far, I have no evidence of any children.

Thanks again - I will be back!
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 08 November 25 09:16 GMT (UK)
If Arthur, when he left the army in 1919, claimed he had an injury as a result of his war service, which was proved to be false, wouldn't he be liable to be prosecuted for claiming compensation or pension, to which he wasn't entitled? Maybe he changed his name to avoid arrest. Or maybe he genuinely believed he had been injured due to suffering from PTSD or similar. If he was deemed to have a mental disorder he might be in an institution.
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Kay99 on Saturday 08 November 25 09:27 GMT (UK)
Presumably the affilailation order mentioned in the newspaper report was not relating to his wife's child as he was living with her at the time he died?? :-\
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 08 November 25 12:48 GMT (UK)
Apart from the age at death everything fits so perfectly that – unless I'm missing something– the only conclusion has to be that the Arthur Rhodes born November 1893 is the same man who committed suicide in 1931.

Just to recap: In 1921 an Arthur Rhodes (married, no wife in the household) is boarding with James and Edith Ellen Willock. His age (27.7) is a match and his occupation is florist, Smithfield market, the same as the suicide.

At her marriage to James Willock in 1915, Edith Ellen Rhodes gives her address as 14 St Matthews Road which is the same address as Arthur's father John's address on his military record. And the witness at this wedding, Alice Bosson Rodes, went on to marry in 1916 with father John Rhodes and the same address again. And of course the other witness at Edith Ellen's wedding is Arthur Rhodes.

Nothing in the earlier census records for the family is inconsistent with any of this.

The age at death must be wrong, and he must have been subject to an affiliation order: is it possible that his wife didn't know about this, and he believed that the court proceedings would mean that everything was about to be revealed?
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 08 November 25 15:07 GMT (UK)
Apart from the age at death everything fits so perfectly that – unless I'm missing something– the only conclusion has to be that the Arthur Rhodes born November 1893 is the same man who committed suicide in 1931.

Just to recap: In 1921 an Arthur Rhodes (married, no wife in the household) is boarding with James and Edith Ellen Willock. His age (27.7) is a match and his occupation is florist, Smithfield market, the same as the suicide.

At her marriage to James Willock in 1915, Edith Ellen Rhodes gives her address as 14 St Matthews Road which is the same address as Arthur's father John's address on his military record. And the witness at this wedding, Alice Bosson Rodes, went on to marry in 1916 with father John Rhodes and the same address again. And of course the other witness at Edith Ellen's wedding is Arthur Rhodes.

Nothing in the earlier census records for the family is inconsistent with any of this.

The age at death must be wrong, and he must have been subject to an affiliation order: is it possible that his wife didn't know about this, and he believed that the court proceedings would mean that everything was about to be revealed?

I don't think you are missing anything Alan

Arthur Rhodes was born in Stockport on 1/11/1893; according to his baptism which took place at Christ Church, Heaton Norris


Thanks for all the replies, lots to think about but I’m off to Northumberland tomorrow morning so further research will have to wait.

One thing you have however confirmed is that there are several “Arthur Rhodes” and, unfortunately Kay99, he wasn’t the one from Marple - his military records confirm that he survived WW1 and I’m sure I have the right one there. I have more or less concluded that Bossons was his MMN.

The discovery about the suicide/flower salesman is interesting. The thing putting me off is the mention of an attestation order - so far, I have no evidence of any children.

Thanks again - I will be back!


For info. - parents names not given on the baptism above - from all the baptisms listed below on Anc*y parents are John & Hannah address 28 Higher Bury Street Heaton Norris father occ labourer , the same address  the family are living on 1901 and 1891 censuses)

Alice Rhodes age 2 Birth  9 May 1887
Baptism 29 May 1889 Heaton Norris, Christ Church, Lancashire
John Willie Rhodes baptised same day born 20th April 1889

BOSSONS, ALICE   -
GRO Reference: 1887  S Quarter in CONGLETON  Volume 08A  Page 312

Alice was born before her parents John Rhodes & Hannah Bossons marriage 3 Dec 1887
(image on Anc*y)

RHODES, JOHN  WILLIE   mmn BOSSONS
GRO Reference: 1889  J Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 42   

Edith Ellen Rhodes Birth    7 Jun 1891
Baptism    29 Jul 1891 Heaton Norris, Christ Church, Lancashire

RHODES, EDITH  ELLEN   mmn BOSSOMS
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 47   

Arthur Rhodes Birth 1 Nov 1893
Baptism 28 Mar 1894 Heaton Norris, Christ Church, Lancashire

Births Dec 1893   (posted by CaroleW (reply8)
Rhodes    Arthur     Stockport    8a   38   mmn Bossons (parents Hannah & John)

Elsie Rhodes Birth 15 Jun 1898
Baptism Date   27 Jul 1898 Heaton Norris, Christ Church, Lancashire, England

RHODES, ELSIE   mmn BOSSAM
GRO Reference: 1898  S Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 37
Elsie Rhodes died age 3 death reg. Stockport Dec 1901

Albert Edward Rhodes Birth 20 Dec 1900
Baptism 21 Jul 1901   Heaton Norris, Christ Church, Lancashire

RHODES, ALBERT  EDWARD   mmn BOSSONS
GRO Reference: 1901  M Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 32   

Ray T - please do let us know your thoughts when you get back and whether or not you decided to obtain the 1931 digital death certificate for Arthur Rhodes perhaps the informant was a family member

Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 08 November 25 15:20 GMT (UK)

so far, I have no evidence of any children.


Could this be their child?

Marjorie Rhodes
Registration Sep 1916 Stockport
Mother's Maiden Name   Lowe
Volume Number   8a Page number   163

Possible death

RHODES, MARJORIE       0 
GRO Reference: 1916  D Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 122
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: amondg on Saturday 08 November 25 15:20 GMT (UK)
1921 the transcription has DOB 1899 making him 21.7  but if you look at the actual image its 27. 7
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: Ray T on Saturday 08 November 25 17:24 GMT (UK)
Ladyhawk - that’ll take some looking at! I did order the death cert but, instead of identifying the informant, it simply refers to the inquest so I assume the informant was the Coroner. It takes us no further forward.
R
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: cath151 on Saturday 08 November 25 18:22 GMT (UK)
There is a report of the inquest in the
Stockport County Express 23rd April 1931

It mentions that Arthur Rhodes was still living with his wife at the time.

Cathy
Title: Re: Arthur Rhodes from Stockport - Post WW1?
Post by: jorose on Saturday 08 November 25 22:10 GMT (UK)
For there to be an affiliation order, we would be looking at a child not belonging to his wife.  Perhas from during his time in service? Unless the original court records survive, perhaps at Stockport Archives, they might be nearly impossible to track, though.  It is highly likely the child was not registered under his surname.