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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Petros on Thursday 06 November 25 13:41 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: Petros on Thursday 06 November 25 13:41 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT was born in Otham in 1859, the second daughter of William Richard Moorcraft and Mary Ann Flanagan. She married Alfred John Peters, a baker from Chatham, at Frindsbury Parish church on 18 October 1879.  The son of John Peters

In the 1881 census Mary Ann is shown as a married woman at her parents address, while Alfred is nowhere to be seen. I can find no trace of either, or evidence of any children born to them after this date
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 06 November 25 15:48 GMT (UK)
Do you know how old Alfred John was when he married?

There is a John Peters death in Sevenoaks Kent 1885 age 24  :-\  so if we could find him in 1881 to rule in or out it might help

Mary Ann could have remarried before 1891 if widowed
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: Milliepede on Thursday 06 November 25 15:52 GMT (UK)
Just in case there is a Mary Ann Peters marriage in Greenwich in 1889

Caroline Haarer
William Jaeger
William John Lower
Mary Ann Peters
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 06 November 25 17:28 GMT (UK)
MoorcrAft or MoorcrOft??  1859 birth is MoorcrAft but 1879 marriage reg shows Moorcroft

What is Alfreds fathers occupation on the marriage cert? 

Have you looked for him on the 1871 census to establish his birthplace - there are 2 Alfred John Peters births on freebmd - one in 1859 & one in 1861

How are they connected to your FH if no children are known
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 06 November 25 17:32 GMT (UK)
Not the 1889 marriage.

Tree on Ancestry - The 1889 marriage shows father as John Valentine Peters.  Spouse was Wm John Lower
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 06 November 25 19:56 GMT (UK)
The 1879 marriage records Alfred's age as 20.

PETERS, ALFRED  JOHN     mmn CULLUM 
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in PLYMOUTH  Volume 05B  Page 229

He appears in 1861 aged 12 months   with mother Margaret (widow) and sister Amelia.

FindMyPast has a wealth of documents re his "activities" between 1880-96 in Plymouth. Believe he died 1902 Plymouth aged 43.

SS
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: heywood on Thursday 06 November 25 20:07 GMT (UK)
Presumably Petros has sight of the marriage certificate as father is stated as John in the first post.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 06 November 25 20:14 GMT (UK)
It would appear that Alfred probably did not know who his father was. Going by his sister Amelia Sarah's baptism the father was Thomas Gould/Gold Peters. Thomas was a Butcher.

PETERS, AMELIA  SARAH     CULLUM 
GRO Reference: 1856  S Quarter in PLYMOUTH  Volume 05B  Page 215

Marriages Sep 1846   
Collum    Margaret Mary Rixon        Plymouth    9   447    
Peters    Thomas Gold                Plymouth    9   447    

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Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 06 November 25 20:15 GMT (UK)
Presumably Petros has sight of the marriage certificate as father is stated as John in the first post.

Image is available on FindMyPast

SS
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: heywood on Thursday 06 November 25 20:20 GMT (UK)
So are you saying that Alfred married Mary A A Moorcroft in 1879 and then married Mary Strowbridge in Stoke Damarel in 1880?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 06 November 25 20:31 GMT (UK)
1871 census--Morice Street, Stoke Damerel, Devon

John   Webber Head - 68 Butcher b Devonport, Devon
Margaret Peters Servant   - 46 Servant b Tavistock, Devon
Ellen   Peters Daughter    14 -   b Plymouth, Devon
Alpha Peters Son - 11 - b Plymouth, Devon

This is why he may have said John was his father at marriage ??

------------

1861--14, White Cross Street, Charles, Plymouth, Devon

Margaret Peters   Wife - 36 -   b Tavistock, Devon
Amelia Peters Daughter - 4 - b Plymouth, Devon
Alfred Peters Son - 1   - b Plymouth, Devon
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: heywood on Thursday 06 November 25 20:36 GMT (UK)
Sorry, I am still not understanding this but you must have access to those records on FindMyPast which indicate it is the right person.
Petros says that Alfred was a baker ‘from Chatham’ on marriage but Alfred in Plymouth is a labourer.
What is the father‘s occupation on the marriage certificate?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 06 November 25 20:44 GMT (UK)
Hi heywood, the fathers occupation was recorded as "book Binder".
I have purely gone by age at marriage(20) in 1879. There are only 2 births between 1857-62, 1 in 1859, and 1 in 1862 who I have discounted.

I did not look or see the 1880 marriage until you pointed it out. I'm more than happy to be shown I have gone down a rabbit hole.

SS
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: heywood on Thursday 06 November 25 21:04 GMT (UK)
I could see your reasoning, but that Alfred seemed rooted in Plymouth.
The difficulty is that this Alfred from Chatham might only be living there at the time.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 06 November 25 21:10 GMT (UK)
OP states in opening post that by 1881 Mary (1879 wife) was back home with parents,

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Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: amondg on Friday 07 November 25 07:50 GMT (UK)
Thomas Gould Peters married Margaret Mary Rixon Collum 1846 reg. Plymouth

They had
Thomas Edwin 1846
Edmund 1848   -- buried 14 October 1848
Amelia Sarah 1850 (born 26 November , bap. 11 December 1850) must have died before 1856
William Henry 1854  death reg. 1858 age 3 in Plymouth
Amelia Sarah 1856
Alfred John 1859**
---------
Possible death for Thomas Gould Peters 1859 reg Plymouth age 36
 -----------
1851 Census  7 Green Street Plymouth
Thomas Gould Peters 27  Butcher
Margaret   26
Thomas 4
Amelia 4 months   (1850 - ?)  possible death 1855 age 4 recorded as Ellen Peters

The second Amelia Sarah 1856 is called Ellen in 1871 Census found by softly softly
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: amondg on Friday 07 November 25 08:13 GMT (UK)
FindMyPast has Electoral registers for Kent and Alfred John Peters is only listed 1880 and 1881.

All other listings are for Alfred Peters, who I expect is the person in the newspapers.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: amondg on Friday 07 November 25 08:58 GMT (UK)
Did they emigrate ?

I cannot find her with any of the brothers and sisters.

Rebecca married William Vaughan

Amy married George Lester

Walter married Ellen
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: heywood on Friday 07 November 25 09:14 GMT (UK)
FindMyPast has Electoral registers for Kent and Alfred John Peters is only listed 1880 and 1881.

All other listings are for Alfred Peters, who I expect is the person in the newspapers.

Is Alfred John Peters in Chatham in those years?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: Petros on Friday 07 November 25 10:00 GMT (UK)
Did they emigrate ?

I cannot find her with any of the brothers and sisters.

Rebecca married William Vaughan

Amy married George Lester

Walter married Ellen

I suspect that may have been the case but have failed to find any evidence for them doing so.

And Mary's surname was MOORCRAFT but this was sometimes entered as MOORCROFT
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 07 November 25 10:41 GMT (UK)
So are you saying that Alfred married Mary A A Moorcroft in 1879 and then married Mary Strowbridge in Stoke Damarel in 1880?

I did not look or see the 1880 marriage until you pointed it out. I'm more than happy to be shown I have gone down a rabbit hole.


This was the only Alfred Peters I could find occ baker, born b1858 on 1881 census

Alfred Peters age 23
Relationship to Head   Lodger
Where born   Maspen, Sussex
Civil parish   Thames Ditton Surrey
Street Address   12 Mathews Terrace
Occupation   Baker
1881c Piece 839 Folio   57 Page number   14

For info. only

Unless I've overlooked I don't think this has been posted

This appears to be the Alfred Peters that married Mary Strowbridge on 1881 census

1881c Piece 2209 Folio   58 Page number   32
1 Ordnance Lane Stoke Damerel   
Alfred J. Peters 21 born  Plymouth Devon , occ labourer   
Mary Peters 20   Wife                               "
Amelia S. Peters    Daughter

PETERS, AMELIA  SARAH   mmn STROWBRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1881  J Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL  Volume 05B  Page 337   

Registration District   Stoke Damerel Sub registration district   Morice
1891 c Piece   1743 Folio   44
3 Ordnance Row
Alfred J Peters   31  born Plymouth Devon, occ Mason's labourer
Mary Peters   32   Wife Stonehouse Devon
Amelia S Peters   10   Daughter

1901 Mary Peters transcribed as Mary Perry 42 ‘m’ with her married daughter (Minnie DAVIES 20 & Lily 3)

1901 Alfred J Peters 39, 's' born Plymouth Devon occ Mason's labourer , boarder, Piece   2098 Folio   120 Page number 60

1911 surname DAVIS John 33, Amelia 31, Lily 13, John 1

Amelia Peters married 1899 John Avery Davies
Amelia S Davies remarried 1920 Henry M Price
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: amondg on Friday 07 November 25 14:58 GMT (UK)
Reply to Heyward  #18

The Electoral Roll is a transcription, the only other information listed is Record Type -Jury service List.

There is no address at all.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: heywood on Friday 07 November 25 16:24 GMT (UK)
Thanks. I thought it might give an indication of area.
I can see an Albert John in those years but not an Alfred John.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: Petros on Saturday 08 November 25 08:16 GMT (UK)
Ladyhawk
Thanks but the Alfred Peters baker you found is described as single.
I've checked the 1861 and 1871 census and can find no Alfred Peters of the correct age in the same households as John Peters
Title: Re: Mary Ann Amelia MOORCRAFT and Alfred John PETERS both born 1859
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 08 November 25 12:51 GMT (UK)
It's unfortunate that the marriage of Alfred in 1881 is not available to view online. I would love to know the details recorded. I personally believe it to be the Alfred who married 1879.

SS