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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Jomot on Monday 03 November 25 20:59 GMT (UK)
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Although her birth was registered as Fanny Swift, she was baptised at Thorpe Arnold on 1 Mar 1840 as Frances, the youngest child of John & Jane Swift, nee Mackley.
In 1841 & 1851 she was living with her family in Thorpe Arnold, but I completely lose her after that. Her father, an Ag Lab, died in 1856, and by 1861 her mother is living in St Marylebone: RG9/82/36/18
Samuel Fitzjohn 32 Widower Licenced Victualler b Watford, Herts
Jane Swift 59 MiL, Widow, born Freeby, Leics
Mary A Swift, Sister in Law, Unmarried, born Thorpe Arnold, Leics
Samuel Fitzjohn had married Fanny’s older sister, Susannah Swift, in 1857, and following her death in 1861 he went on to marry Fanny’s other sister, Mary Ann Swift, in 1862.
I had wondered whether this marriage might be Fanny using a different forename, but I can’t find either of them afterwards to rule it in or out:
4 May 1862, St Marylebone
John Tobin, f/a, Bachelor, House Painter, St Marylebone, Father: Philip Tobin, Purser RN
Flora Swift, f/a, Spinster, St Marylebone. Father: John Swift, Farmer
Wits: John & Amelia Boylin
Fanny also had three brothers, Thomas 1825-1891, Robert 1827-1905 & Jesse 1833-1924. Thomas & Robert had both moved to Ontario, Canada by 1861, whereas Jesse joined the Coldstream Guards and fought at the Crimea. By 1861 he had been discharged from the army and spent the rest of his life in Kingston upon Thames where he was Park Constable at Richmond Park.
Before I give up, can anyone find anything more about Fanny/Frances Swift or Flora Swift/Tobin?
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Are there any Tobin/Swift births after 1862? **
Is there a Flora Swift birth father John a farmer to rule her in or out of being your Fanny?
** Flora Annie born Dec 1862
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Re: John Tobin/Flora Swift marriage 1862 Marylebone
Have a look at this 1881 entry for Marylebone
Piece 152 folio 105 page 34 - James (not John) & Flora Tobin. Flora is 37 b Leics - childrens births show mmn Swift
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Sorry yes, I found three Tobin/Swift births shortly after the marriage:
TOBIN, FLORA ANNIE mmn SWIFT GRO Ref: 1862 D Quarter in MARYLEBONE Vol 1a p455
TOBIN, JOHN ALEXANDER mmn SWIFT GRO Ref: 1864 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Vol 1a p40
[Died 1864, Kensington]
TOBIN, WILLIAM mmn SWIFT GRO Ref: 1865 S Quarter in KENSINGTON Vol 1a p93
[Died 1865 Kensington]
CaroleW, where did you find Georgina & Emma's births with the mmn Swift? I've found Caroline's (see below) but not those two. I've also found later school district records saying that the girls were illegitimate.
Flora Annie's 1862 birth confirms her father as John Tobin, House Painter but Caroline's birth has no father present:
28 Oct 1877 Marylebone Workhouse, Caroline d/o Flora TOBIN formerly Swift, Upholstress. Informant: Flora Tobin of 16 Richmond Street, Maida Hill
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I've also downloaded Flora's death, but apart from the 1881 census giving her PoB as Leicester, I still haven't found anything to confirm whether or not she's actually Fanny / Frances.
22 Apr 1883, Marylebone Infirmary, Flora TOBIN aged 40, Servant from 18 Carlisle Street. Informant was J Merchant, Steward at Marylebone Infirmary.
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Sorry - I found Caroline's birth with mmn Swift doing a "sweep" search of GRO online but my reply is misleading.
Strange no father is shown on her birth cert. James Tobin is a horse keeper in 1881 whereas John Tobin was shown as a house painter. The only Fanny etc Swift births in Leics in 1840's
1840 - mmn Mackley
1843 - mmn Meadows
1844 - Frances - illegit
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Are the 1862 marriage witnesses any help or completely unrelated?
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Just checking have you ruled out the marriage in Mar 1860 Leicester?
Fanny Swift
Thomas Beeby
Jane Hawley
Zacc?eus Hezekiah Branston
Jane and Z are together in 1861 so Fanny should be with Thomas
No forget all that she was an older lady than yours
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Just checking have you ruled out the marriage in Mar 1860 Leicester?
Thanks for this. The marriage licence looked very promising and gives their ages as '21 and upwards' but the certificate names her father as Thomas, not John. Thomas Beeby's occupation was given as Inn Keeper, and in 1861 at the Joiners Arms, High Cross Street, Leicester is Thomas Beeby, Inn Keeper aged 39 and Fanny his wife, aged 40 born Scraptoft, Leics, so unfortunately not 'my' Fanny Swift.
Are the 1862 marriage witnesses any help or completely unrelated?
They appear to be unrelated.
Sorry - I found Caroline's birth with mmn Swift doing a "sweep" search of GRO online but my reply is misleading.
Strange no father is shown on her birth cert. James Tobin is a horse keeper in 1881 whereas John Tobin was shown as a house painter.
I don't think that James Tobin and John Tobin are the same man, and I'm not even certain that James's surname is really Tobin, although I can't prove it either way. I also haven't found Flora in 1871, nor have I traced her first child, Flora Annie Tobin b1862.
I've discovered that shortly before Flora's death in 1883 the three girls from the 1881 census were sent to the Roman Catholic school at Totteridge, Hants, and all three are recorded as illegitimate. Emma was put into service in 1894 and Caroline in 1897, but Georgina was sent to Canada in 1889, where she married William Naylor.
I'm still working on it, but it seems that Caroline also moved to Canada, in 1899, followed (eventually!) by Emma in 1926.
Georgina's death certificate names her parents as JOHN Tobin & Florence Swift.
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There’s an admission entry for Flora Tobin in Marylebone 1862 age 23.
Think it refers to workhouse infirmary as the end column says cured.
What was her residence on the marriage? This entry has 11 Dorset Buildings
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At marriage both John Tobin & Flora Swift gave their address as just 'St Marylebone' but the address on Flora Annie's birth certificate a few months later was 11 Dorset Buildings, the same as the Infirmary entry you mention.
The informant for Flora Annie's birth was Isabella Ann Richardson, Occupier, 11 Dorset Buildings
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On the marriage John says his father is Phillip.
There is this family in 1861 but John only 10 so he can't be the groom.
Phillip Tobin 50 born Ireland - sugar boiler
Mary wife 45 born Ireland
Catherine dau 18 born Denmark St Middlesex - servant
John son 10 born Denmark St Middlesex - scholar
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28 Oct 1877 Marylebone Workhouse, Caroline d/o Flora TOBIN formerly Swift, Upholstress. Informant: Flora Tobin of 16 Richmond Street, Maida Hill
Briefest of settlement notes here
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31363_A106555-00184
Workhouse creed register
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31436_190456-00073
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Three Tobin children, creed register, Feb 1883
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31436_190458-00334
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A big thank you for those jonwarnn - I'd managed to find the creed registers but had given up on finding any form of settlement examination, so that's a brilliant find 8)
Next question is what does it say? I've got as far as:
8 Nov 1877
Flora Tobin, 32, W
4, 2 + 14 days
I lived with Mr Wright(?) as his wife at Charlotte Place, Paddington [???] for about 6 years and only left him about 5 months ago.
Paddington Order Made
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Thanks to those brief settlement notes I've been able to find Flora's Removal Order to Paddington.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2651/images/31952_a014583-00396?usePUB=true&_phsrc=MKO828
Unfortunately there's no further information about her origins but it does confirm that the father of her children is George Wright of 10 Charlotte Place, Paddington.
I'd suspected it was him from the 1871 newspapers where he initially proclaimed that he would not be responsible for his wife's debts and then shortly afterwards advertised two rooms for rent.
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Hi
Well done with the handwriting, and finding that removal order!
So I guess Georgina was named after Mr Wright? I don't see a birth reg though, and didn't find Flora/Fanny as Wright in 1871 (if she was by then)
Jon
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I've just found Flora Annie's baptism
England Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
St Francis of Assisi, Notting Hill, North Kensington
Flora Anna Tobin born 16 Oct 1862
Bap. 16 Jan 1865
Father John Alexander Tobin
Mother Flora Surft
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Thank you - just the small matter now of what happened to her after that ???
My gut tells me that Flora and Fanny/Frances are the same person, but proving it or even tipping the scales of probability still feels out of reach.