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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: aidansrest on Monday 03 November 25 13:12 GMT (UK)
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Hi Thomas Gordon was born illegitimately in Sunderland in 1863, being baptised on the 19th August, the son of Ann Gordon.
He doesn't appear as Thomas Gordon on the 1871 or 1881 census, but married in Holy Trinity, Sunderland (I haven't seen the certificate, but know the date and venue via Sunderland Registrars), as Thomas Gordon, to Isabella Swallow.
He is then missing again in 1891, but reappears with Isabella and their children in 1901 and 1911 (as Thomas Gordon), and died on the 2nd June 1913, aged 49 years.
I cannot trace him, with his mother, in 1871 or 1881, but an Ann Gordon married a John Scott in St Andrew, Deptford, Sunderland on the 25th December 1866.
She named her father as James Gordon and he named his father as Robert Scott, but can't find either of them prior to, or after, their marriage.
Can anyone trace them?
Sue
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Can you include Ann's birthyear & birthplace
GRO online shows Scott/Gordon births in Sunderland as follows. You may be able to find them using the childrens names
Robert 1867
Agnes 1869 - edit - died 1869
James 1871
Mary 1873
Elizabeth 1877
Ann 1879
Jane 1881
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1871 ref
Piece 5000 folio 31 page 55
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Thanks! No sign of Thomas though - frustratingly!
Sue
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Noticed husband John is on image but missed off transcription
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He is on FindMyPast transcription.
Sue
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Ancestry strikes again ;D
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;D
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1861 for John Scott
Piece 3767 Folio 73 Page number 42
Possible 1861 for Ann (or Mary Ann)
Piece 3770 Folio 18 Page number 29
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Thank you!! Will check it out!
Sue
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1901 census Nesham Place Sunderland
Thomas Garden aged 38 a painters labourer born Sunderland
Isabella wife aged 36 born Sunderland
Thomas aged 16
James aged 13
John G aged 10
Henry aged 5,
all children born Sunderland
sorry ignore you have him in 1901
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Hi thanks!!
Have him in 1901 and 1911...but not in 1871, 1881, prior to his marriage, nor in 1891, after his marriage to Isabella
Sue
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Is this Ann's burial at Bishopwearmouth Cemetery, 13 March 1923
Ann Scott
widow of John Scott
Age 74 years
Death occurred at 37 Wellington Lane
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS6T-NS45-X
Even on her census ages she would have been very young in 1863, when Thomas Gordon was born.
Are you sure it's the same Ann?
Birth reg
GORDON, THOMAS
Mother's Maiden Surname: —
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 410
Have you got his birth cert to see if there are any further clues or confirmation, one way or the other?
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Hi
I don't have Thomas' birth certificate - I was able to get additional information from the Sunderland Registrar's site which gave his date of birth as 2nd August 1863 (mother's maiden name 'Gordon'), and his baptism from FindMyPast, which took place on the 19th August 1863, naming the only parent as Ann Gordon.
I cannot trace him in 1871 or 1881 (or 1891 for that matter, his wife, Isabella, was alone with their three sons, in High Street, Sunderland.
I just thought, his mother may have married after his birth and he may be listed under a different surname until his marriage - he married as Thomas Gordon in 1883.
When Ann Gordon married John Scott, she named her father as James Scott.
It may be a coincidence, but Thomas named his first three sons, Thomas, then James, then John George (George was the name of Isabella's father), so thought they may have been a link there, possibly to John Scott too.
Who knows??
Sue
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Hi
Yes she might be Thomas's mother of course. She could have given him up soon after the birth.
I was just wondering if there might be any alternative possibilities :-\
Jon
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He obviously knew his original surname then, but who was caring for him during his childhood is frustratingly obscure
Sue
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Do you have his wife and children in 1891?
SS
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My cobbled together alternative is here! Corrections made.
Is this a late marriage for Ann, or just a coincidence of names? I haven't thoroughly checked.
Sep 1872 Sunderland 10a 760
Gordon, Ann
Jones, James
Sunderland indexes ref C026BK15/373
Leaving that aside, in Sunderland in the 1871 census (free resources only for me at the moment!)
Ann Jones 25 Mariners Wife Durham Shiney Row
Thomas Jones 7 Durham Sunderland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBZP-TJX
Is the same pair in the 1881 transcript? :-\
Ann Sells 36 Sailors Wife Durham Pensher
Thomas G Sells 17 Sailor Durham Sunderland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q271-JHGT
Could the G be for Gordon??
There is a baptism of Hannah Gordon in Penshaw, Durham, in 1845
Parents Henry and Mary Ann
I think abode will be Shiney Row.
A daughter Ann to those parents in Penshaw as well, maybe in about 1843.
Birth regs
GORDON, ANN
Mother's Maiden Surname: YOUNG
GRO Reference: 1843 J Quarter in HOUGHTON LE SPRING UNION Volume 24 Page 188
GORDON, HANNAH
Mother's Maiden Surname: YOUNG
GRO Reference: 1845 J Quarter in HOUGHTON LE SPRING UNION Volume 24 Page 190
So which one? (EDIT - Ann, I guess!)
Anyway, 1851, here they are in Washington
Ann and Hannah both born Shiney Row
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGJ1-7QJ
To complicate matters in 1851 an Ann Gordon, 7, with her Young grandparents!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGJY-TCP
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Genuki's page for Penshaw, which mentions Shiney Row
Map shows it's not very far away from Sunderland
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DUR/Penshaw
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Wow!! Thank you so much, really worth investigating!!
Sue
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I have checked Sunderland Registrar indexes between 1861 and 1870 - there are no Thomas Jones births with mother's maiden name 'Gordon' - so you could be onto something there!
Fingers crossed!
Sue
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I suspect going by the baptism of Thomas in 1863 he may have had a brother John Elliott Gordon baptised 4th January 1861--just mother Ann recorded.
SS
added
IT IS NOT ANY OF THESE 3--they can be found in 1861.
GORDON, JOHN ANDREW HARRISON
GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 406
GORDON, JOHN GEORGE GAUNTLETT
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 426
GORDON, JOHN JAMES RISEBOROUGH RISEBOROUGH
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 383
SS
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Wow!! Thanks again!
Wonder what happened to him??
Sue
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Wow!! Thanks again!
Wonder what happened to him??
Sue
So do I, cannot find a thing at the moment.
SS
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un named, male Gordon, birth recorded Sunderland D 1860, no mothers name recorded
record on the GRO
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un named, male Gordon, birth recorded Sunderland D 1860, no mothers name recorded
record on the GRO
ss
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excellent so she hadn't decided on a name at birth in November, and then had him baptised January as John Elliott Gordon
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Amazing! I wonder what happened to him?
Can't find a death.
Can't thank everyone enough for their interest and help
Sue
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in the 1891 census,High Street Sunderland,
Annie and James Sells ,Annie is aged 47 years, they live either next door to Isabella Gordon and her children or share the same house,
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Fantastic! What a conundrum- I would never had worked all that out
Sue
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little snippet but no clues, a Ann Sells is mentioned as a witness to a death in Church st in 1894,
John James Sells born circa 1847, was found drowned in the South Dock August 29th 1910, he was a watchman onboard the Thomas Anderson, he'd last been seen on the previous Saturday,
it appears he had a criminal record and was charged on various occasions ,either as James, or John James first arrest 1888
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James Sells was charged on remand with assaulting Annie Mills they lived in the same house in Vine st in 1906, but I don't think its the Annie of 1891 unless of course she came back with a new partner as the article says he allowed her and her man to stay with him as they had no place of their own
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Again thank you so much...I'm sure they will be all connected to Thomas Gordon in some way
Sue
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Bishopwearmouth cemetery
September 1st 1910
John James Sells
aged 63 years
a watchman,
died South Dock
buried section 19 ward a grave 4500, consecrated ground,
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Thankyou!