RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Sunday 02 November 25 00:08 GMT (UK)

Title: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: overlandermatt on Sunday 02 November 25 00:08 GMT (UK)
I posted recently about my grandfather's brother, Albert Pope who emigrated to Canada and then the US with his new wife Emily Elizabeth Armstrong. They married in 1910 and the wedding was attended by the father William Armstrong.

I was interested to find out more about Emily and her family. Coincidentally, Emily's birth in 1886 was registered in Shardlow, Derbyshire where I live these days and a long way from the normal Plymouth stomping grounds. Her father William Armstrong, a soldier/bugler born in Ireland, had married her mother Emily Luscombe in Plymouth in 1878 and there were two brothers on the 1881 census when William was in Chatham. The family must have moved to Derbyshire where 3 more children were born before they returned to Plymouth. Emily senior died in 1900 but I don't know what happened to William. He was there at the wedding in 1910 but deceased on his youngest daughter's wedding certificate in 1922.

I found him on the 1881 and 1901 censuses but I've not found him elsewhere. I have wondered if he was away on military service. If he was born in Belfast in 1852, he might have joined the army by 1870 and gone overseas.

Any clues on this man and his family would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: tonepad on Sunday 02 November 25 06:19 GMT (UK)
Armstrong
William
1854

1911
1911 Census For England & Wales
Urpeth, Chester Le Street, Durham, England

He is a Boarder and working as a Plasterer, a Widower born Belfast
Household Head is William George Fraser


Tony
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: overlandermatt on Sunday 02 November 25 15:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks Tony.

He's been a bit of a pain to find but I think I found him in East Stonehouse in 1911 at the same street address that was on his daughter's wedding certificate.

What is a bit strange is that his daughter is listed under her maiden name and there is no mention of the husband. The census only has initials rather than first names so this strangely enough proved to be quite helpful given there are quite a few William Armstrongs around the country... Less helpful was that the whole family were incorrectly listed as having been born in Stonehouse.

Just need to find him in 1861, 1871 and 1891. I did find an army record for W Armstrong from Shankhill, Belfast 1851 and Derbyshire regiment which sort of ties in with the story but that suggests he left in 1883 which was 3 years before one daughter was born in Derbyshire and he resided at the barracks...
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 02 November 25 15:53 GMT (UK)
Has this one been ruled out?

Death Plymouth Dec 1912 age 61
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 02 November 25 15:59 GMT (UK)
Which child was born closest to 1891 census?
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: heywood on Sunday 02 November 25 16:15 GMT (UK)
You might find his military record on Find My past.
One Fold3 information gives discharge as 3 Sept 1883 with pension date as 3 September 1889 which may be an error. I think it’s also indicates that he was a drummer.
Another shows 52nd Regiment of Foot, listing at the age of 17 years in 1868.
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 02 November 25 16:17 GMT (UK)
The baptism for son Christopher in Derbyshire mentioned he was a drummer
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: heywood on Sunday 02 November 25 16:19 GMT (UK)
A published tree shows Emily Elizabeth’s baptism in Normanton, 1886. The abode is ‘The Barracks’ and William is a drummer in the 3rd battalion, Derbyshire regiment.
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 02 November 25 16:40 GMT (UK)
Army records from 1868 to discharge in 1889:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F2211%2F111%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F2211%2F11123

He was in Malta at the time of the 1871 census
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 02 November 25 16:41 GMT (UK)
ARMSTRONG, SUSAN  HANNAH     LUSCOMB 
GRO Reference: 1889  S Quarter in SHARDLOW  Volume 07B  Page 457

1891 census


ARMSTRONG, GEORGE  ROBERT     LUSCOMBE 
GRO Reference: 1894  S Quarter in PLYMOUTH  Volume 05B  Page 256

SS
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: heywood on Sunday 02 November 25 16:52 GMT (UK)
Army records form 1868 to discharge in 1889:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F2211%2F111%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F2211%2F11123

He was in Malta at the time of the 1871 census

And in Ireland presumably  in 1861
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 02 November 25 17:04 GMT (UK)
Quote from opening post:

 Her father William Armstrong, a soldier/bugler born in Ireland, had married her mother Emily Luscombe in Plymouth in 1878 and there were two brothers (CHILDREN)on the 1881 census when William was in Chatham.
ARMSTRONG, -       LUSCOMBE 
GRO Reference: 1879  M Quarter in FARNHAM  Volume 02A  Page 100

ARMSTRONG, ROBERT  JOSEPH     LUSCAMB 
GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in MEDWAY  Volume 02A  Page 564

SS

added--death of wife Emily

Deaths Mar 1900   
Armstrong    Emily    aged 44    Plymouth    5b   236
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 02 November 25 17:13 GMT (UK)
Per the army records, the two sons born before Emily were:

William Francis, 2 March 1879
Christopher John, 1 March 1883


Robert Joseph not listed - perhaps he did not survive
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 02 November 25 17:16 GMT (UK)
Per the army records, the two sons born before Emily were:

William Francis, 2 March 1879
Christopher John, 1 March 1883


Robert Joseph not listed - perhaps he did not survive

Deaths Dec 1881   (
ARMSTRONG    Robert George    0    Shardlow    7b   265

SS
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 02 November 25 17:54 GMT (UK)
William Francis, 2 March 1879-should be somewhere in 1891. He appears in 1911 census, marries 1917, 1921 census, 1939 war register(dob .6.1879) and dies 1947.

ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM  FRANCIS     agd 68 
GRO Reference: 1947  M Quarter in ISLINGTON  Volume 05C  Page 1346

SS
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: overlandermatt on Sunday 02 November 25 19:35 GMT (UK)
Army records from 1868 to discharge in 1889:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F2211%2F111%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F2211%2F11123

He was in Malta at the time of the 1871 census

Thanks for sharing that Shaun. I will need a FindMyPast subscription to look at that - currently just have Ancestry. The wrong one when the time comes!
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: overlandermatt on Sunday 02 November 25 19:47 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for uncovering the details here. I had wondered whether he followed daughter Emily to Canada but seemingly he died shortly before or after they emigrated...

I am interested in the army details. I have had a few relatives in Plymouth who married soldiers, presumably as the unit passed through the city at some stage. What is unclear in this case is the unit - I couldn't really find anything about a 3rd Derbyshire Battalion in the 1880s and the 52nd Regiment in 1878 at the time of the marriage. I need to renew the FindMyPast subscription...   
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: softly softly on Sunday 02 November 25 20:12 GMT (UK)
Info only, Sarah Hannah and Christopher appear together in 1911 and 1921 census together, Christopher also 1939 war register. Christopher died 1945.

SS
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: Andy J2022 on Sunday 02 November 25 21:12 GMT (UK)
In case it is not clear from the foregoing, he enlisted in the 52nd (Oxfordshire) Regiment, which was a light infantry regiment, at Belfast on 2nd September 1868 and served with that regiment (it was a single battalion regiment at the time) until 1 June 1881 when he transferred to the 3rd (Militia) Battalion of the Derbyshire Regiment where he served for a further 8 years until 3 Sept 1889 when he was discharged having completed his engagement (21 years). Note that his Militia service was part time.
Title: Re: William Armstrong b1852 Ireland but British soldier
Post by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 12 November 25 08:23 GMT (UK)
In case it is not clear from the foregoing, he enlisted in the 52nd (Oxfordshire) Regiment, which was a light infantry regiment, at Belfast on 2nd September 1868 and served with that regiment (it was a single battalion regiment at the time) until 1 June 1881 when he transferred to the 3rd (Militia) Battalion of the Derbyshire Regiment where he served for a further 8 years until 3 Sept 1889 when he was discharged having completed his engagement (21 years). Note that his Militia service was part time.

Thank you Andy. That's a helpful summary. I think I have sufficient detail about this man's service now.