RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Jim Webster on Thursday 30 October 25 21:37 GMT (UK)
-
Good evening all.
Looking to find Ronald's mother. Her Christian name was Hannah (b 14th October 1904) and her Surname on a marriage transcription (to William Henry Lines) suggests her maiden name was Heyburn. Other than this transcription I cannot find any information relating to a Hannah Heyburn. I am given to understand she was also born in the Birmingham area and possibly has an Irish connection. Any help on this search would be greatly appreciated.
Jim
-
1939 register
There is a Wayman "Hayden" born 12 January 1916 living with them
ADDED
His mother's maiden name is Middleton reg 1916 at Aston
Look at the 1921 census - I cannot quote here due to copyright rules.
Look for Weyman Hadyn born 1916
-
Who is her father on the marriage certificate?.
-
I wonder if the 1939 is one year out
Hannah Heyburn birth date 14th October 1903
no father on birth cert
mother Martha , a domestic servant
Frederick St Newtonards
-
Sorry I don't have their marriage certificate only the FindMyPast transcript.
Just looked at the 1939 register and will do some work on Wayman Hayden.
Also noticed that the family immediately above the Lines' family are called Middleton. I think this could be Hannah's mother in law's (Florence Rebecca Middleton) relations.
More work to do.
-
Ireland Civil reg births 1864-1958. A tree on Ancestry shows her birth in Dec 1903 Newtownards Vol 1 page 759 but no other info
4 Lines children b 1928-1933 Birmingham
-
John Henry Lines married Florence Rebecca Middleton 1898
They had
Florence Gertrude 1899 reg. Birmingham
**William Henry 1901 reg. Birmingham
Jessie 1903 reg. Aston
John James 1905 reg. Aston
Annie 1906 reg. Aston
Elizabeth 1909 reg. Aston
-------
Possible death for John Henry Lines 1911
-
There is no obvious Lines/Heyburn marriage in England so they may possibly have married in Ireland
-
POSSIBLE HALF SIBLING
Margaret Ramsay
birth date 21st October 1919
abode Neville st Newtonards
father Henry Ramsay
mother Martha Jane nee Hayburn
-
same parents
Marion Ramsay 8th October 1918
Thomasina Ramsay 24th June 1921 both have mother Martha Hayburn
-
Parish church Newtownards
22nd December 1917
Henry Ramsay full age bachelor, father Hugh Ramsay, Dealer
Martha Jane Heyburn, spinster full age no father recorded
witnesses to the marriage by licence Thomas and Rose Ann Ramsey
-
Jane Heyburn no fathers name recorded
mother Ellen Heyburn
1st March 1879 ?????? leave this one for another day
-
Parish church Newtownards
22nd December 1917
Henry Ramsay full age bachelor, father Hugh Ramsay, Dealer
Martha Jane Heyburn, spinster full age no father recorded
witnesses to the marriage by licence Thomas and Rose Ann Ramsey
Link-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09759/5542287.pdf
-
same parents
Marion Ramsay 8th October 1918
Thomasina Ramsay 24th June 1921 both have mother Martha Hayburn
Links-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1918/01267/1525778.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1921/01179/1491501.pdf
-
POSSIBLE HALF SIBLING
Margaret Ramsay
birth date 21st October 1919
abode Neville st Newtonards
father Henry Ramsay
mother Martha Jane nee Hayburn
Link-
31 October 1919
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1919/01235/1513856.pdf
-
...................
Hannah Heyburn birth date 14th October 1903
no father on birth cert
mother Martha , a domestic servant
Frederick St Newtonards
Link-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1903/01853/1722496.pdf
-
Census of Ireland 1901
Samuel Boyd aged 63 general dealer
Catherine Boyd aged 60,
Mary Boyd, Granddaughter aged 7
Martha Jane Heborn Granddaughter aged 3
Mill Street Newtownards,.
ignore this please . as Martha Jane can't be her mother born in 1903
Edited it looks like Martha is her sister
-
Has the marriage been posted yet?
William Lines 10 Mar.1923 Ards Registration district (which covers Newtownards area) to Hannah Hayburn.
The marriage is available to view immediately from GRONI (General Registry Office of Northern Ireland) once you register and purchase a few credits (select FULL from right side of results. If you put in Lines for the surname and 1923 for the year it will come up in the index once you've registered and have credits)
https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
Added- probably birth of first child was also in Northern Ireland-
U/1923/201/1024/46/62 Florence Lines 23rd November 1923 Female Heyburn Newtownards
Births less than 100 years old will not be shown in index so there could be ones born late 1925-1928.
-
Irish civil records unnamed child of Martha Heyburn was born at Newtownards workhouse
20th March 1898
Baptised Martha Jane Heyburn with the same birth date was baptised 23rd April 1898 Greenwell St Presbyterian church Newtownard to Martha Jane Heyburn, so the Martha that married is most likely Hannahs , sister she lives with her Boyd Grandparents in 1901
-
So what happened to their mother Martha Jane after 1903
-
Ref : CaroleW #5
Thank you. My sister-in-law knows of the 4 children you mention (3 uncles and an aunt).
-
so Jim, are you following what has been posted and searching the possible people mentioned, you have the marriage of Hannah and you have her birth,
-
Lots more information but also some corrections to some of the details posted previously.
Margaret Ramsay
birth date 21st October 1919
abode Neville st Newtonards
father Henry Ramsay
mother Martha Jane nee Hayburn
The address is Movilla Street in Newtownards. Birthdate is 31 Oct.1919 as Kiltaglassan has already posted.
Ref : CaroleW #5
Thank you. My sister-in-law knows of the 4 children you mention (3 uncles and an aunt).
Were you aware of the first child born in Ireland in 1923?
I have some quite interesting bits about Hannah and her mother Martha but will hold off from posting until Jim Webster responds.
-
Evening all
Quite a lot of information to digest has been provided.
I'm free over the weekend so, hopefully, should be able to get to grips with it all.
Thanks to all contributors.
Jim
-
I have tried to get to grips with the information provided and ready to be proved wrong but here goes.
my Hannah born 14/10/1903 in the Birmingham area would seem to be wrong.
Another Hannah born exactly 1 year earlier in Newtownards is more likely.
If the Newtownards one is right Hannah has an older sister (Martha Jane 23/4/1898). No fathers name on either birth certificate.
Martha Jane and Hannah's mother Martha goes on to marry Henry Ramsay (22/12/1917} and they have 3 children (Margaret, Marion and Thomasina) who are Hannah's half sisters.
If I have understood the information correctly I will speak to my sister-in-law (who was born in the same area in Birmingham) and let her know what I have found. She is adamant that her grandmother Hannah was of Irish decent.
Thank you again for the information you have provided.
Jim
-
Jim , you are getting to grips but I need to correct my replies , Martha Jane that married Henry Ramsay would have been your Hannahs sister also born to single mother Martha Jane, now where Martha Mum went is a mystery to me,
Aghadowey, said he has some snippets to post when you came back to your post,
if you are correct and your Hannah was born in Birmingham, where is her birth certificate and why would she marry in Ireland ? and how rare would it be to have two ladies of the same name born on the same date
-
Good evening
Thank you for your reply.
I arrived at Hannah's dob from the 1939 record.
I thought I had found her on a 1921 census but having now double checked this is now incorrect
This census is for a Hannah Evelyn Lines and now fully support the Irish birthplace.
Jim
-
Ref : CaroleW #5
Thank you. My sister-in-law knows of the 4 children you mention (3 uncles and an aunt).
Were you aware of the first child born in Ireland in 1923?
I have some quite interesting bits about Hannah and her mother Martha but will hold off from posting until Jim Webster responds.
-
Ref Kiltaglassan
Appreciate the links. Can you help with a link to the Martha Jane (Hannah's sister / half sister) birth registration in 1898.
Jim
-
Ref : CaroleW #5
Thank you. My sister-in-law knows of the 4 children you mention (3 uncles and an aunt).
Were you aware of the first child born in Ireland in 1923?
No. Is this child Henry / Martha Jane's
I have some quite interesting bits about Hannah and her mother Martha but will hold off from posting until Jim Webster responds.
-
Ref : CaroleW #5
Thank you. My sister-in-law knows of the 4 children you mention (3 uncles and an aunt).
Were you aware of the first child born in Ireland in 1923?
No. Is this child Henry / Martha Jane's or William Henry Lines / Hannah Heyburn's?
I have some quite interesting bits about Hannah and her mother Martha but will hold off from posting until Jim Webster responds.
-
Ref : CaroleW #5
Thank you. My sister-in-law knows of the 4 children you mention (3 uncles and an aunt).
Were you aware of the first child born in Ireland in 1923?
No. Is this child Henry Ramsay / Martha Jane's or William Henry Lines / Hannah Heyburn's?
I have some quite interesting bits about Hannah and her mother Martha but will hold off from posting until Jim Webster responds.
-
Please don't keep re-quoting so many replies as it gets more and more confusing to read.
The 1923 birth is [presumably] eldest child of William Lines and Hannah Heyburn. They married on 10 Mar.1923 and daughter Florence was born 23 Nov.1923 (Newtownards registration district).
I asked if you were aware of this child since it would have provided yet more evidence that we have found the correct Heyburn family.
I have just checked for a death in Northern Ireland (1923-1940) but there was none for Florence. Perhaps you'll be able to find information about her in English records.
Before I post details about the Heyburn family, I did find a possible death for Hannah's mother, Martha Heyburn, in Scotland. I say possible because the name and age fit. However, I have not viewed the certificate. IF Martha died in Scotland the informant may not have known much about her so the details on the death registration may not be able to confirm it is Hannah's mother. It would probably be worth first checking to see if she died in England in case she went to live near Hannah.
HEYBURN MARTHA 69 F 1939 595 / 80 Irvine
-
Robert Heyburn, Ballymacormick, m. Margaret Johnston
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Bangor/Ballymacormack/1251585/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Bangor/Ballymacormick/260114/
Jeannie Heyburn’s son- https://barryniblock.co.uk/world-war-two-war-dead/names-listed-alphabetically-by-surname/dalzell-to-dunwoody/duff-robert-heyburn-no-d-kx94612/
Their daughter-
Martha Heyburn (6 Nov.1869 Ballymacormick)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1869/03377/2238187.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Bangor/Orlock/1251801/ (transcribed as Keyburn)
1. Daughter (8 Apr.1892 Ballymacormick-11 Apr.1892 Ballymacormick)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1892/02351/1879008.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06039/4720379.pdf
2. Daughter (23 Jan.1894 Ballymacormick-28 Jan.1894 Ballymacormick)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1894/02276/1855047.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05980/4700722.pdf
3. Margaret Heyburn (15 Mar.1896 Ballymacormick-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1896/02176/1824257.pdf
Maggie age 4 with grandparents in Ballymacormick in 1901 and age 16 in 1911.
4. Martha Jane Heyburn (20 Mar.1898 Newtownards Workhouse) m.(22 Dec.1917 Newtownards) Henry Ramsey. See next post.
5. Hannah Heyburn (14 Oct.1903 Frederick St., Newtownards) m.(10 Mar.1923 Ards R.D.) William Lines
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1903/01853/1722496.pdf
a. Florence Lines (23 Nov.1923 Newtownards R.D.)
-
Martha Jane Heyburn (20 Mar.1898 Newtownards Workhouse) m.(22 Dec.1917 Newtownards) Henry Ramsey
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1898/02088/1796560.pdf
Baptised Martha Jane Heyburn with the same birth date was baptised 23rd April 1898 Greenwell St Presbyterian church Newtownard to Martha Jane Heyburn
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09759/5542287.pdf
a. Marion Ramsay (8 Oct.1918 Movilla St., Newtownards)
b. Margaret Ramsay (31 Oct.1919 Newtownards)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1919/01235/1513856.pdf
c. Thomasina Ramsay (24 June 1921).
d. Kathleen Ramsay (14 Sept.1923).
There could be other children born after 1925.
-
Census of Ireland 1901
Samuel Boyd aged 63 general dealer
Catherine Boyd aged 60,
Mary Boyd, Granddaughter aged 7
Martha Jane Heborn Granddaughter aged 3
Mill Street Newtownards,.
ignore this please . as Martha Jane can't be her mother born in 1903
Edited it looks like Martha is her sister
The above transcription contains several errors-
Samuel Boyd in a general labourer.
Wife is Cathern.
Also a boarder Bella McLure in household.
Actual census return is here-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Newtownards_Urban/Mill_Street_Part_of_/1260546/
Samuel Boyd died in 1909 (age varies from census)-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05455/4526627.pdf
Catherine Boyd in 1911-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newtownards_Urban/Frederick_Street/269478/
Her sister Mary Mills died in 1915-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05262/4459959.pdf