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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => Topic started by: ValCharlie on Saturday 25 October 25 12:38 BST (UK)
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I have a Harriett Catt, born in Sussex in 1848, in my tree. The daughter of William Catt and Harriet Golding (or Golden) Phillips. The mother, Harriet Golding/Golden Phillips died in Sussex in 1852 and in the 1861 census her 3 children with William Catt are in Battle Workhouse.
There is much info available about a William Henry Catt, born in England in 1825, who travelled to NZ in 1856/7 and married (as a bachelor) a Mary Ann Morris in Wellington.
I am looking for definitive proof that the William Henry Catt who married in NZ is the William Catt (never any evidence of any Henry) who was born in Sussex.
William Catt's daughter Harriet did emigrate to NZ in 1908 but to a different part. Knowing NZ, I am sceptical about this geography & also about why an abandoned child (if it is the same William Catt) would a) follow her father years later and b) then move to a different part of the country.
I am looking for evidence in either New Zealnd on England. TIA
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It looks like all three of William's children ended up living in New Zealand. Harriett Golding Fuller died in Dunedin on the South Island 4th September 1939, however she was buried down in Invercargill, which is quite a way away from Dunedin. She was 94yrs old. Brother George William Catt died in Wellington, North Island 29th February 1948. Annie Catt sister died in Auckland, North Island in 1917.
It looks as if the Father William Henry Catt abandoned all of his three children, if as you say he went to New Zealand a few years after his wife died. Do you have his travel record going to New Zealand?
Regards.
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I have this person way out at the side of my family tree but I have not looked at these families for literally decades. What follows is not the help you need to prove the connection but might help with clarification.
In the days before research could be done on the internet I was in touch with a couple of William (of New Zealand)'s descendants - one who seemed like a competent researcher and one who definitely didn't. Looking at William's index card, I see I have a suggested possible middle wife for William (Ann Seal) in Hastings in 1853 but with the comment 'this doesn't look right!' presumably because there is no such marriage in the indexes.
I do have a New Zealand marriage, children and death for him but I do not have a middle name Henry anywhere. There is a pencil note 'find date of travel to Australia' which I obviously never did.
William and Harriet 'Golding'* are in Ore in the 1851 census, saying William was born in Westfield, clearly distinguishing him from the one born the same year in nearby Guestling. In 1861 William of Guestling is still there and William of Westfield has disappeared completely.
*The GRO indexes have Harriet Golden Phillips. I have not seen the certificate.
I have no further information on their children but emigration was encouraged at that time and if William had written to any of the family praising New Zealand then it would be a logical destination. Being in the workhouse does not neccesarily equate with desertion. At that time it would be difficult to earn a living as well as bring up young children, without a wife or paid housekeeper.
I always meant to have a fresh look at all my Kent and Sussex lines now that information is more readily available but I don't know if I will ever get round to it. William (of Westfield) Catt's great grandfather Soloman had a large family and my line goes to one of his daughters. Catt is a surprisingly common name in some areas.
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Thank you both for your replies.
William 1, who was born in England, in Westfield in Sussex, the son of George & Ann.
His wife Harriet Golding Catt died 24/04/1852. William 1 was present at the death.
William 2 marries in Wellington on 12/04/1857. If this is the same William, these dates give a relatively small window for travel. I can't find him. You mention Australia, was this a slip or should I look at Aussie records too? The Aus/NZ reords are te one I am less sure about.
When William2 marries in Wellington, it is as William, not William Henry. He appears to acquire the Henry later, but he also records his father as William, the father of William 1 was George.
William 2 married Mary Ann Morris in Wellington. She arrived in NZ with her family on the 'Ann Wilson' which arrived in Wellington on 29/03/57. There is a story online that William2was on the same ship as Mary Ann, which makes sense as the wedding was just 6 weeks after this date, but the passenger records are online and I can't find him.
Also, there is an electoral record for William Catt in 1853-4 in Porira road, Wellington but this is a different area to Hutt.
Can either of you find his travel records??
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In his will, written in 1890, which can be seen online, there is no Henry either.
Nor on his death registration.
Where are you seeing the passenger list for the Ann Wilson? I thought this was one for which a complete passenger list had not been found. Only cabin passengers listed in the newspapers of the day, and what lists there are complied gradually from other evidence.
The intention to marry does have the same length of time for residence, (upwards of 4 weeks) for each, so that is a positive. And, it says William is a widower (not a bachelor).
Also…1857 marriage certificates do not name the father. So where do you see him naming him as William?
At the bottom of this page is the actual ITM image
https://itm.howison.co.nz/year/1857/page/7770
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Date of marriage was 12 May not 12 April.
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I have been rooting in the depths of my computer and found William2s death cert. This is a copy of a copy of a copy so it is not very readable, sorry.
Added to what mckha has found I think they are the same person.
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Interesting that ages of the first family are known. Suggests to me they did have contact.
Added..link to report of death. Names Mrs Fuller in England.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WDT19000316.2.6?end_date=31-12-1900&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=William+Catt&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1900
Later..Corrected error in this.
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Regarding the in-between marriage on that death certificate.
Is that to Harriet Turner? August 1852. Image is on ancestry. He is a widower & labourer of Westfield, father George.
Perhaps her death?
CATT, HARRIET 34
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in THE HASTINGS UNION Volume 02B Page 8
Buried at Ore 28 August 1855
Son Mark age 8 mths buried at Westfield October 1855. Abode, Battle Union House
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Yes, I like the look of that one mckha. So he had lost two wives and the latest child in fairly quick succession - no wonder he decided to make a fresh start abroad. He probably intended to send for the children once he had got sufficiently established but it took some time.
Edit -Thinking about it a bit more that leaves an even narrower window for travel out, and sheds doubt on the electoral roll in reply 3.
Valcharlie - I don't know why my note says 'Australia', it was written a long time ago, but I understand it was not uncommon to start in Australia and then move on to New Zealand
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Thanks everyone
I think I have it now......
24/4/1852 First wife Harriet Golding Phillips dies of Puerperal Fever (6 days) in Ore. Tis suggests another birth, as yet no registration found.
28/4/1852 HGP buried in Fairlight
23/8/1852 William Catt marries Harriet Turner in Whatlington (her home village)
30/1/1855 Mark Catt born in Ore (there may be another child in this period?)
24/8/1855 Harriet Turner dies in Battle Workhouse & is buried at Ore
11/10/1855 Baby Mark dies in Workhouse and is buried
15/10/1855 in Westfield
The info that you have provided proves that this is the same George - my bad re date on Wellington marriage certificate and William's father. The NZ certificate has the groom's name where the UK one has the groom's father.
William isn't present at Mark's birth (or doesn't report it, Harriet does) and isn't present at Harriet's death so maybe he did leave England early enough to be in Wellington for that electoral roll entry?
This was my source for passengers on the Ann Wilson.
Thanks again
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https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~ourstuff/genealogy/AnnWilson1857.htm
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The other child born 1852 was Edmund.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01u2m/
CATT, EDMUND PHILLIPS
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in THE HASTINGS UNION Volume 02B Page 9
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Thank you.
Edmund's birth ties in with the death of Harriet Golding Phillips, she died 7 days aftr his birth suffering from Puerperal Fever, so post child birth complications.
In 1861 Edmund is in Battle Workhouse with his 3 older siblings.
William Catt had two further children with Harriet Turner - David and Mark. Mark is already covered in this thread. He died aged 8 months, shortly after the death of his mother Harriet Turner (also in the Workhouse).
David is on the 1861 census living with his mother's younger sister Martha in Hastings.
I am still wondering whether William left earlier than 1856 although if he wasn't on the Ann Thompson, which Mary Ann Morris was, there's was certainly a whirlwind romance, so he probably was.
I am not sure what happened to the two children we've 'found' today. The 3 eldest with Harriet Golding Phillips all appear to have travelled to NZ, I'm not sure about Edmund or David.
As you said, the inclusion of Harriet - called Fuller, but not really! - his second oldest child, in the newspaper article about William's death, suggests contact before 1900.
More work needed! I'm not familiar with NZ records. I've been their twice, once to follow the Lions in 2017 and once just before the Covid epidemic in 2020, but I'm slowly putting the pieces together.
Thanks for your help.
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Have you been able to see records of Battle Union House?
They might throw light on William’s movements.
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Sadly not. I think that they are only available in Brighton, not online. Unless you know different??? I'm in France so it's not easy, but it's also not impossible.
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Date of marriage was 12 May not 12 April.
As helpful as these ITM notices are, I'm finding with my own searches that it's worthwhile also checking the transcription of same, against the actual (original) scanned entry, provided.
So just posting the following for clarification. ;)
In the case of the CATT-MORRIS 1857 marriage >
Date of (ITM) Notice = 24th April 1857
Date of Certificate* = 9th May 1857
[* Certificate is issued on the exact date of the marriage] :
Also, the transcription of this particular ITM shows the place of marriage as (Episcopalian Church)
"known as Whitehead Church". "Whitehead" is incorrect - it's a transcription error.
The Episcopalian Church at Taita, Hutt, was/is in fact known as "Christ Church" (Taita).
Noting though that the original scanned record shows "Christchurch" (as one word). ;D
~ Lu
Edit: * for further clarification
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Hello Lu.
Do you know when the Christ Church congregation at Taita was established, and or when their church was built, as 1857 is fairly early.
The only papers Past references I was able to find for an Episcopalian Church; Christ’s Church; OR Christ Church, in the 1850’s was the one at Nelson NZ. Could Nelson have been a port of entry?
Alan.
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Hello Lu.
Do you know when the Christ Church congregation at Taita was established, and or when their church was built, as 1857 is fairly early.
Alan.
Yes I do. :D Why do you ask ?
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Greetings Lu
I was surprised to read that Taita had an established congregation in 1857.
I would have expected travelling ministries outside of the port settlements, through to the 1870's and 1880's. Based upon my more northern NZ research.
Alan.
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https://christ-church.org.nz/about/
Ian C
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Thanks.
Proof that my knowledge of the Wellington province is not as well informed as that of Auckland and the Waikato.
Alan.