RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Milliepede on Friday 24 October 25 10:16 BST (UK)
-
Born Grace Edwards in Clifton Bristol c1845 father Joseph mother Grace
In 1880 she marries Edward Neaves 48 widow occ painter as Grace Lester 34 widow father Joseph Edwards.
Residence at time of marriage 81 Hampstead Rd. I cannot find a marriage to a Mr Lester or find her as Edwards or Lester in 1871.
In 1881 I can’t find her either as Neaves. She and Edward had a daughter 30 Oct 1881, residence then 67 Pratt St Camden Town and another daughter in Dec 1883.
Death for Grace Emily Neaves (no idea where the Emily has come from) same quarter Dec 1883.
Can anyone find a first marriage or any possible census sightings for her please?
-
Am I on the right track. Grace has 2 children with Edward Neaves. Grace dies 1883 and Edward remarries Caroline Orgles in 1885.
SS
-
Yes that’s correct. Edward has wives before and after Grace.
-
Daughter Grace Eva Elizabeth Neaves was b Dec qtr 1883 - mmn Lester. Died June qtr 1886.
Grace snr died Dec qtr 1883 - presumably as a result of the birth
-
Info not needed.
SS
-
Info already posted.
-
Only looking for Grace - marriage to Mr Lester and her whereabouts in 1871 as Edwards or Lester and in 1881 as Neaves.
-
I appreciate who you are looking for, just trying to see how many surnames might be involved,
SS
added--cannot find a suitable Adams/Lester marriage or indeed Clara/Charles/Grace after birth.
LESTER, CLARA AMELIA MAUD mmn ADAMS
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 79
added--quote-Death for Grace Emily Neaves (no idea where the Emily has come from) same quarter Dec 1883.
-
Looking at Charles’ occupation, this looks interesting, but I cannot find the case in the old Bailey transcripts.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/3c94c8f8-dd05-4ecd-a3f8-179c14051281
Sentenced to 15 yrs penal servitude in next column.
Added..found Old Bailey, which referred back to this case.
Mr Hunt now Edward
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/record/t18800301-276?text=Garrett
More detail
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/c2d247b0-7459-4b9d-8723-61b3d7cee123
-
In the criminal records on ancestry, he is Charles Lister, not Lester.
‘ Habitually Criminals Register’ - Charles Lister, alias Edward Hunt, Barman, born 1850, London.
-
In the criminal records on ancestry, he is Charles Lister, not Lester.
‘ Habitually Criminals Register’ - Charles Lister, alias Edward Hunt, Barman, born 1850, London.
For info 1871 census
Charles Lister Age 22
Relation Servant occ barman
Where born St Pancras, Middlesex
Piece 436 Folio 24 Page number 6
probably this is him on 1881 census
Charles Lister Age 31, single
Relationship to Head Prisoner
Where born London, Middlesex
Street Address "H M Convict Prison" Chatham Kent
Occupation Convict
Only looking for Grace - marriage to Mr Lester and her whereabouts in 1871 as Edwards or Lester and in 1881 as Neaves.
Proving pretty elusive ???
Is this her baptism?
Grace Edwards
Baptism 20 Jul 1845 Clifton, St John the Evangelist, Gloucestershire
Father Joseph, labourer Mother Grace
Did her mother Grace remarry a William Parslow?
-
Gosh thanks everyone for the input. Adams is a new surname in the mix and the Lester child Clara.
Have to go out shortly but there is a Maud Clara Lester age 12 lodger with a Darbon family in 1891 Hammersmith to check out.
If Charles was alive and imprisoned in 1881 then Grace wasn’t a widow in 1880. But then if she never married Charles in the first place it wouldn’t matter. Lot to think about.
Yes Ladyhawk that is the correct baptism for Grace Edwards and her mother did remarry to Parslow.
-
A tree on Anc suggests that Maud Clara Lester married a Thomas Arthur Wilkins and I noticed a possible marriage in 1905.
Maud Clara Lester
Thomas Arthur Willkins
Jun Qtr 1905
Brentford Vol 3a Page 320
-
A tree on Anc suggests that Maud Clara Lester married a Thomas Arthur Wilkins and I noticed a possible marriage in 1905.
Maud Clara Lester
Thomas Arthur Willkins
Jun Qtr 1905
Brentford Vol 3a Page 320
Name Maud Clara Willkins
Age 30
Estimated Birth Year abt 1878
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place Brentford, Middlesex, United Kingdom
Death Date Sep 1908
Inferred Death Place Middlesex, United Kingdom
Volume 3a
Page 101
Following Charles Lister if I have the correct one is easy from marriage in 1890 until death in 1904.
However, as requested Milliepede only wants Grace in 1871/81 and Edward Neaves.
SS
-
On 15.2.1884 Maud Lester enters school. Her dob recorded as 17.8.1879. Her father recorded as Edward Lester, abode 10 College Grove, Camden.
SS
-
Thank you so Maud is alive in 1881 but who was she living with :-\. Can’t have been her father if he was in prison.
Mother was married to Edward Neaves by then. Can’t work out the Adams surname yet but it’s looking like the same woman throughout.
-
I am not sure about all this really.
The baptism and birth shown have Charles Lester as a clerk/commercial clerk.
The official criminal records show Charles Lister as a barman.
-
I am not sure about all this really.
The baptism and birth shown have Charles Lester as a clerk/commercial clerk.
The official criminal records show Charles Lister as a barman.
One of the first newspaper entries I found had him as a clerk, which was why I continued looking. But agree, most inconsiderate of him to become a barman.
-
On 15.2.1884 Maud Lester enters school. Her dob recorded as 17.8.1879. Her father recorded as Edward Lester, abode 10 College Grove, Camden.
SS
Letitia Neaves b 30.10.1881 attended the same school (Camden Street) which really confused me as Maud's entry is on the same page. She enters the school on 2.8.1886 father listed as Edward address at the time 67 Pratt Street round the corner from College Grove https://maps.nls.uk/view/103312967#zoom=5.3&lat=1837&lon=12009&layers=BT
-
I think Maude Lester entered the school in 1886 not 1884. It does look like a four, but the page before is 85.
-
On 15.2.1884 Maud Lester enters school. Her dob recorded as 17.8.1879. Her father recorded as Edward Lester, abode 10 College Grove, Camden.
SS
Letitia Neaves b 30.10.1881 attended the same school (Camden Street) which really confused me as Maud's entry is on the same page. She enters the school on 2.8.1886 father listed as Edward address at the time 67 Pratt Street round the corner from College Grove https://maps.nls.uk/view/103312967#zoom=5.3&lat=1837&lon=12009&layers=BT
I was looking at the same school record late last night. Her baptism 5 Mar 1882 born 30th Oct. 18801 father Edward occ painter same address, she is transcribed as Letitia Ncarss on 1891c (Anc*y) with father Edward and his wife Caroline. Mary marries as Etty Neaves in 1901 but still can't find Edward or Grace anywhere on the 1881 census ???
NEAVES, MARY LOTTIE LETITIA mmn EDWARDS
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in ST PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 117
Edited above born 1881 not 1880 so Mary wouldn't be on the 1881 census her birth registered Dec 1881 born 30 October 1881
-
I found some Pratt Street addresses in 1881 but none after number 55, I think.
I wonder if there are missing pages in the census?
-
I found some Pratt Street addresses in 1881 but none after number 55, I think.
I wonder if there are missing pages in the census?
I've been wondering the same Heywood
-
I found some Pratt Street addresses in 1881 but none after number 55, I think.
I wonder if there are missing pages in the census?
I've been wondering the same Heywood
Piece 207, folio 54, page 10, schedule 588 and next page. But no help that I can see.
-
Thank you – good find - even though it doesn’t help, it stops us searching.
If I have the right 10 College Grove, there is a George and Sophia Abbott there over the period .
1881 208/13/19
There are baptisms in 1879 with the same address.
-
If I have the right 10 College Grove, there is a George and Sophia Abbott there over the period .
1881 208/13/19
ABBOTT George
Electoral Date 1881
Street Address 10 Upper College-Grove
Ward or Division/Constituency St Pancras
County or Borough Marylebone
The Electoral Register is listed in alphabetical order there are no persons with the surname Neaves Edward listed
Re: SS reply 7 address 46 Cardington Street for the Lester,'s living there in 1881 was a
John William Ware occ Crown Message (G S) & family, he’s listed on the 1881 Electoral Register again in alphabetical order there’s no Lester/Lister or Neaves listed ???
John William Ware
Electoral Date 1881
Street Address 46 Cardington-Street
Ward or Division/Constituency St Pancras
County or Borough Marylebone
London Electoral Register - couldn’t find Edward Neave searched just Pratt Street looked at this entry and searched back as it's in alphabetical order
George Torrance
Electoral Date 1884
Street Address 67 Pratt-Street
Ward or Division/Constituency Paddington and St Marylebone
County or Borough Westminster
He is listed as NEVE. Edward 67 Pratt Street, dwelling house
-
Thanks for persevering with this :)
I’ve been looking for any evidence of any other Grace E Adams, all I have found so far is an 1861 entry in Middlesex for a Grace E Adams 16** niece along with an Emma S Adams 12 niece both born Calcutta.
Head of house is Charles Cooley.
**looking at the image think age is 10 not 16.
Just can’t work out if she is Grace Edwards from Glos where Adams comes into it for the birth of Maud.
-
I have been wondering how you know that Grace is the one born in Clifton as there are no later records before her death.
-
Can’t be sure she is without other evidence but this is the only card on the table for what happened to her.
Her father was indeed Joseph Edwards as per the Lester marriage and 2 of her sisters - Fanny and Eliza were also living in the London area and having children there.
It isn’t much but haven’t found a death for her as Grace Edwards or any other likely marriages.
She is with family in 1851 age 5 and in 1861 age 16.
-
Milliepede, I was going down the same route, trying to start at the beginning as such.
1851.
Grace Edwards Head Widow 42 Laundress b Bristol, Gloucestershire,
Ann Edwards Daughter Unmarried 18 Servant b Clifton, Gloucestershire,
Thomas Edwards Son - 13 Errand boy b Clifton, Gloucestershire
Fanny Edwards Daughter - 11 Scholar b Clifton, Gloucestershire
J Edwards Son - 7 Scholar b Clifton, Gloucestershire
Grace Edwards Daughter - 5 Scholar b Clifton, Gloucestershire,
Cannot find any GRO registrations with "mmn Hill" in Glous. Grace does appear to have a baptism in 1845 that ties in with same address as 1851. Cannot find the other 3 births though.
SS
-
Yes there aren't many Grace's to choose from are there :-\
I've been helping a friend with this family for several years on and off slowly tracing all the children.
I couldn't find a birth record for Grace either but from memory some of the children were born in Wales then moved to Bristol.
-
Hello everyone, Millipede is my friend helping me.The six eldest children were born in Monmouth.Joseph their father was a turnpike labourer.The family moved back to Bristol and Grace was the only one born there.Joseph was killed in a quarry accident 1847.But on the 1851 census Grace puts them all down from Clifton,Bristol(i think).and her maiden name was Grace Hill.They told me at Bristol archives,a lot of records were lost in the bombing WW2.
-
Hi glen11, welcome. Thanks for clarifying a few issues. You will find us "rootschatters" taking apart all previous research and putting it back together to assure ourselves of facts. I am pretty sure in my own mind that we have the correct Grace. It's a shame we all seem to be struggling with her from 1861-1880. I like others will continue to look until nothing new appears.
SS
-
The thing is, except for one son, George Henry Edwards who died from smallpox 1848,they all had only one name.
-
:) Afternoon everyone - not sure yet if there might be a connection to the Charles Lester/Grace (Emily) Edwards we are looking for so thought I’d post to get other opinions.....
Charles Lester Age 6
Birth Date Mar 1867
Admission Date 10 Nov 1873
School St Mark's School
Father Charles Lester, address 34 Elgin Terrace
Date of leaving Oct 1875
Also listed with him is Edward Lester born Jun 1864(5) date of leaving May 1877
Last school attended Private S
Charles Lester Age 8
Birth Date 24 Mar 1867
Admission Date 29 Nov 1875
School St Augustine's School
Father Charles Lester, address 3 Cambridge Terrace
Last school attending S. Mark’s date of leaving 24.11.76
Chas Lester Age 9
Birth Date 24 Mar 1867
Admission Date 4 Dec 1876
School St Mark's School
No address and no father or guardians name
left Feb 1877
I thought this might be Charles Lester birth entry so took a chance as he had mn Edwards not found a matching birth entry for an Edward Lester Jun/Sept qtr. 1864 or 65 with mn Edwards ???
LESTER, Charles mn EDWARDS
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 545
I downloaded the digital image his dob matches that of the School admissions records above :)
Is this just a coincidence that his mother is named Emily :-\
Born 24 March 1867
address 59 Bell Street Marylebone
Father Charles Lester occ Accountant,
Mother Emily formerly EDWARDS
Mother E Lester registered his birth 4th May 1867, same address
Not having much luck finding a Charles LESTER , accountant, Emily, Edward & Charles or variants) on 1871 census ??? Nor could I find a Charles Lester / Emily Edwards marriage on FreeBMD ???
Also tried searching for a Charles Lester/Lister with all the addresses mentioned on LER but only found these names so far listed with those addresses :-\
John Rennies. 59 Bell Street Marylebone 1873
Henry Collins 34 Elgin Terrace Paddington 1875
Henry Hiscock 8 Cambridge Terrace Kilburn. 1878
Henry Matthews 59 Bell Street Marylebone 1893
I did find a Charles LISTER age 37 born Staffordshire married 1835 St Leonards Shoreditch a Mary (nee Stevens) they are on 1851 census with 4 children, Mary, Edith, Harriett and Charlotte his occupation Accountant they are living in Oxfordshire. In 1861/71 this Charles & Mary are now living in Alverstoke Hampshire
-
Born Grace Edwards in Clifton Bristol c1845 father Joseph mother Grace
In 1880 she marries Edward Neaves 48 widow occ painter as Grace Lester 34 widow father Joseph Edwards.
Residence at time of marriage 81 Hampstead Rd. I cannot find a marriage to a Mr Lester or find her as Edwards or Lester in 1871.
She and Edward had a daughter 30 Oct 1881, residence then 67 Pratt St Camden Town and another daughter in Dec 1883.
Death for Grace Emily Neaves (no idea where the Emily has come from) same quarter Dec 1883.
Can’t be sure she is without other evidence but this is the only card on the table for what happened to her.
Her father was indeed Joseph Edwards as per the Lester marriage and 2 of her sisters - Fanny and Eliza were also living in the London area and having children there.
It isn’t much but haven’t found a death for her as Grace Edwards or any other likely marriages.
She is with family in 1851 age 5 and in 1861 age 16.
For info.
No details of the death were given for Grace Emily NEAVES so not sure if the details are known - downloaded the digital image
Edward Neaves occ painter on 1880 marriage to Grace Lester :-\
18 November 1883
67 Pratt Street
Grace Emily Neaves age 36 wife of Edward Neaves a Tailor
cause of death Septicemia 5 days, Peritonitis 3 days
Informant E Neaves widower of deceased present at death, same address
-
Think I've found them in 1871 transcribed LEITER :)
Piece 5029
Folio 11
Page number 15
Dale Street South Shields Durham
Charles 43 Head Grays Essex occ Wine Spirits Merchant Clerk
Grace Emily 27 Wife Clifton near Bristol Somerset
Edward 6 Son W?dsor Berkshire
Charles 4 Son London
-
Amazing - Transcribed on FindMyPast as Leitu!
-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MG-NS4K?lang=en
Here's a Charles Lester age 30 single wine merchant cl born Grays Essex on 1861
posting whilst red writing
Edit to add this is how they are transcribed on Anc*y
Piece 385
Folio 63
Page number 28
23 Asylum Road Camberwell
Henry J Lester 57 Head Frome Somerset occ coachman
Ann Lester 50 Wife Soho Middx.
Charles Leslie 30 Son wine merchants cl. Essex Grays
-
Super find, Ladyhawk - well done!
And she is ‘our Grace’. :)
-
Well done Ladyhawk,
SS
-
Birth 1867, Marylebone
Charles Lester mmn Edwards
-
Birth 1867, Marylebone
Charles Lester mmn Edwards
details posted reply 34 - couldn't find brother Edward's entry though
Super find, Ladyhawk - well done!
And she is ‘our Grace’. :)
Well done Ladyhawk,
SS
Thank you both :)
-
Amazing work Ladyhawk!
-
Oh fantastic work thank you so much you are brilliant to find that 1871.
Thank you for the death info as well to complete the picture. Will message friend immediately and share the good news :)
-
Thank you everyone, Grace was the only one i couldn't find. She had a brother,Joseph,his 1st wife was Emily.Perhaps thats the connection.And thanks to Millipede for persevering!!and posting for me.xxx
-
Is this a rough draft of children to Charles & Grace/Emily
1 Edward, born ? July 1864/5 Windsor Berks--may be a son of Charles from a previous relationship and not Grace's son or vice versa ie her son not Charles.
2 Charles born 1867
3 Another possible.
LESTER, JOSHUA mmn EDWARDS
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 491
LESTER, JOSHUA aged 1
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS Volume 10A Page 371
Baptised 14th March 1870, baptised 6th December 1870. Parents Charles (Clerk) & Emily, abode South Shields. Image on FindMyPast with surname transcribed as LOSTER
4 Clara born 1878.
Still a big gap between 1869-78
SS
-
i thought that unless Charles was in jail again!!
-
Another good find SS
So where are Grace & Edward Neaves hiding in 1881 ??? Are they together?
Still looking but nothing found as yet ???
Looking to see what happened to her two Lester sons after 1871 census, school records both left year 1877 :-\
I think this is Edward's death
Edward Neaves Age 60, address 12 Carlow Street
Burial 3 Aug 1894 Saint Pancras Parish Church: Euston Road, Camden
Censuses for Edward Neaves born c1833 Kew, Surrey
1833 22 Dec Bpt. son of George & Letitia Louisa Neaves (nee Clarke)
1841 Meves (Neaves) with parents George & Louisa & siblings
1851 ? not with parents
1861 Neaves bc1834 Kew, gardener son for George & Louisa
1871 Neaves bc1833 Kew, painter, wife Fanny (nee Maling) sons Richard J & Edwd G
Fanny Maling married Richard Tubbs 1864
Richard Thomas Tubbs (mn Mayling b1865) (Edward George mn Maling b1868)
1880 Edward married Grace Lester both widowed occ painter
1881?
1885 Edward widow married Caroline Orgles occ painter
1891 surname Ncrass bc 1833 Kew Surrey, decorator & painter wife Caroline, dau Letitia
-
I too for my own sanity was/still trying to find the 2 Lester/Edwards sons. But what happened to Charles snr. Also I have failed badly to find him pre 1861 census in any shape or form.
SS
-
I too for my own sanity was/still trying to find the 2 Lester/Edwards sons. But what happened to Charles snr. Also I have failed badly to find him pre 1861 census in any shape or form.
SS
Likewise :)
K
-
I too for my own sanity was/still trying to find the 2 Lester/Edwards sons. But what happened to Charles snr. Also I have failed badly to find him pre 1861 census in any shape or form.
Likewise :)
Ditto ??? ??? ??? - I wanted to check birth daughter Grace Eva Elizabeth Neaves definitely gives mother formerly Lester the birth was registered by father E Neaves
Just put this together - from 1881 onwards address consistently 67 Pratt Street, Camden ???
1880 marriage address 81 Hampstead Road
1845 Jul 20 Bpt Grace EDWARDS parents Joseph & Grace (nee HILL)
1851 Grace EDWARDS born c 1846 Clifton, Gloucester with mother Grace (wid) & 4 siblings
1861 Grace born c1845 Bristol, Clifton mother Grace remarried 1855 (Henry)William PARSLOW
1871 Grace LESTER born c1846 Bristol Nr. Gloucester husband Charles
children Edward born Jun 1864(5) & Charles born 26 Mar 1867 (mn Edward)
No marriage found for Grace & Charles (so assume he was not free to marry :-\)
1878 Aug 17 Clara Amelia Maud Lester f Charles commercial clerk m Grace Emily formerly ADAMS ???
Bpt 6 Apr 1879 (details from SS)
1880 Grace Lester married Edward Neaves, father Joseph Edwards, both widowed
1881 Oct 30 Mary Lottie Letitia Neaves (mn Edwards) Bpt 5 Mar 1882 father Edward, painter mother Grace, 67 Pratt St
1883 Nov 13 Grace Eva Elizabeth Neaves (Grace formerly LESTER) father Edward, house painter he reg. birth 67 Pratt St she died 1886
1883 Nov 18 Grace Emily Neaves died her husband Edward was the informant 67 Pratt Street only anomaly his occ a Tailor
-
i thought that unless Charles was in jail again!!
This Charles doesn’t fit with the one who went to jail though, does he?
-
i thought that unless Charles was in jail again!!
This Charles doesn’t fit with the one who went to jail though, does he?
heywood, I think the "criminal" Charles is a totally different man
SS
-
i thought that unless Charles was in jail again!!
This Charles doesn’t fit with the one who went to jail though, does he?
heywood, I think the "criminal" Charles is a totally different man
what happened to Charles snr. Also I have failed badly to find him pre 1861 census in any shape or form.
Agree with you both
The 1871 & 1861 censuses give his pob Grays Essex ???
Same as you SS having trouble finding him and his parents on earlier censuses ???
Brought forward the 1861 census for anyone else looking
1861c Piece 385 Folio 63 Page number 28
23 Asylum Road Camberwell
Henry J Lester 57 Somerset Frome occ coachman
Ann 50 Middx Soho Wife
Charles 30 Essex Grays Son occ wine merchant cl.
I wondered about this entry in Islington birth place/occ not a match :-\
Charles Lester 58 Islington, occ cashier & book keeper
Spouse Mary Ann Lester 40 Southsea
1891 census Piece 171 Folio 32
-
I'm still looking as well but nothing further to add as yet.
In 1861 Charles is transcribed with surname Leslie on ancestry. Parents are Lester.
I wonder why his surname was written out as his mother just has ditto.
-
i thought that unless Charles was in jail again!!
This Charles doesn’t fit with the one who went to jail though, does he?
heywood, I think the "criminal" Charles is a totally different man
SS
They’re not the same person at all. That’s what I was pointing out.
-
I got the birth image for the Joshua Lester that SS posted.
Born 14 March 1869 South Hylton Ford
Father Charles Lester a clerk in Ford paper mill
Mother Grace Edith Emily Lester formerly Edwards
So another name Edith slotted in on this one.
-
Thanks for letting us know the details.....a different clerk occupation from the 1871 where he was a listed as a wine merchant cl :-\ edit to add and 1867 birth Charles Lester occ Accountant
Who registered the birth?
-
In 1861 Charles is transcribed with surname Leslie on ancestry. Parents are Lester.
I wonder why his surname was written out as his mother just has ditto.
Following on from your comment I did a quick search last night for a Charles Leslie born c1830
this one came up on 1881 census in Warwickshire his occupation Accountant, wrong pob though ??? I haven't had a chance yet to follow this family up to see where it leads - if anywhere
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-V2G8?lang=en (no similar records were found)
Charles Leslie age 51 Spouse Sarah E.
They have six children, one of those is named Edward Clerk (out of employment) born c 1863 Birmingham. First child named John, Clerk (Accountant) born c 1861 Broughton In Furness, Lancashire
If I get chance will try and follow up later :)
-
Birth registered 24 April 1869 by Grace Edith Emily Lester mother South Hylton Ford
-
In 1861 Charles is transcribed with surname Leslie on ancestry. Parents are Lester.
I wonder why his surname was written out as his mother just has ditto.
Following on from your comment I did a quick search last night for a Charles Leslie born c1830
this one came up on 1881 census in Warwickshire his occupation Accountant, wrong pob though ??? I haven't had a chance yet to follow this family up to see where it leads - if anywhere
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-V2G8?lang=en (no similar records were found)
Charles Leslie age 51 Spouse Sarah E.
They have six children, one of those is named Edward Clerk (out of employment) born c 1863 Birmingham. First child named John, Clerk (Accountant) born c 1861 Broughton In Furness, Lancashire
If I get chance will try and follow up later :)
Here's what I've found for the above Charles LESLIE on 1881 census - looks as if his surname should be LEESE ::)
1901 census surname transcribed as HEESE
Charles 71, occ manufacturers Clerk , Sarah M 71 & Florence E 35
1871 census surname LEES
Charles 40 Accountant
Sarah M 40 Birmingham Wife
John 11 Broughton Son
Edward 8 Erdington Son
Millicent 6 Daughter
Florence 5 Daughter
Jessie 3 Daughter
Ellen 15 Niece
LEESE, EDWARD ERNEST mmn JEROME
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 295
LEESE, MILLICENT ADA mmn JEROME
GRO Reference: 1864 J Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 348
LEESE, FLORENCE ELLEN mmn JEROME
GRO Reference: 1866 M Quarter in LANCASTER Volume 08E Page 623
Marriage Sept 1851 Kings Norton same page
Charles LEESE / Sarah Maria JEROME
Marriage image on Anc*y no father's names given,
Married 28 Aug 1851 Charles occ coach maker,
one witness Rebecca LEESE
As your Grace Emily & Charles LESTER were on the 1871 census in Durham I think you can cross this Charles off the list
-
Not giving up quite yet but still not finding an Edward Neaves born c 1833 Kew Surrey, occ painter & Grace (Emily) nee Edwards born c 1846 Gloucester Clifton Bristol on the 1881 censuses ???
I found some Pratt Street addresses in 1881 but none after number 55, I think.
I wonder if there are missing pages in the census?
Piece 207, folio 54, page 10, schedule 588 and next page. But no help that I can see.
Thought I'd check out the family living at 67 Pratt Street in 1881 on the slight off chance there may have been some connection but none that I can see either ???
Street Address 67 Pratt St
Registration District Pancras
Sub registration district Camden Town
Piece 207 Folio 54 Page number 10
Eliza SMITH 39 Head (wife dittoed)
Arthur 9 Son >>>> 1871 Arthur John mn Shobridge
Edith 8 Daughter>>1872 Edith Florence mn Shobridge
Thomas 4 Son >>>> 1876 Thomas Sidney mn Shoebridge
Mabel 11 months Daughter >>> 1880 Mabel Eleanor mn Shobridge
Eliza SHOBRIDGE married John SMITH on 22nd Dec 1870 (image on Anc*y)
The 1882 baptism of Mary Lottie Letitia NEAVES born 10 Oct 1881, address 67 Pratt Street - I guess that their address would be the same on her birth certificate - unfortunately you cannot obtain this as a digital image ???
May have overlooked this on the thread address 81 Hampstead Rd on their 1880 marriage has anyone checked to see who was living there in 1881?
-
May have overlooked this on the thread address 81 Hampstead Rd on their 1880 marriage has anyone checked to see who was living there in 1881?
81 Hampstead Road, St Pancras in 1881 - Geo W. Wilkin a Beerhouse Keeper with wife Ellen and servant Eliza Calloway. RG11/178 f56 p5
Written alongside the address is 'Gladstone'
AI tells me
Gladstone was the historic name of the pub now called The Old Crown on Hampstead Road in the Euston area of London. The pub has also previously been known as the New Crown.
-
Re: SS reply 7 address 46 Cardington Street for the Lester,'s
An ad in the Morning Post, 30 October 1878
Appears again on the 1st Nov, but it may say 45 Cardington Street on that one?
-
Jonwarrn, re that advertisement, is it possibly promoting Edward or Charles Jnr,but begs the question why is Edward snr not Charles- can’t work that out
SS
-
SS,
Your reply #46, Edward Lester born about 1864/5. That age would fit for a 14-year-old seeking employment in 1878 as the advert states.
-
Posting this as not sure if already posted, if it has sorry.
3rd November 1879 Edward George Neaves born 18.1.1870 enrolled at school. Father Edward Neaves 9 Kilburn Park Road.
17.8.1878 Clara is born--conceived around November 1877.
Wondering if Clara is Edward Neaves daughter who is using the alias Charles Lester at Clara's birth ;D
SS
-
Gets more and more tangled with the names doesn’t it.
I was even wondering if the father of Clara was a Mr Adams because wasn’t she the one with MMN Adams?! Grace could have sneaked the surname in there albeit as her own. The Adams just doesn’t make any sense.
-
Posting this as not sure if already posted, if it has sorry.
3rd November 1879 Edward George Neaves born 18.1.1870 enrolled at school. Father Edward Neaves 9 Kilburn Park Road.
17.8.1878 Clara is born--conceived around November 1877.
Wondering if Clara is Edward Neaves daughter who is using the alias Charles Lester at Clara's birth ;D
a long thread took me a while to find so brought forward some details from my post.....
Censuses for Edward Neaves born c1833 Kew, Surrey
1833 22 Dec Bpt. son of George & Letitia Louisa Neaves (nee Clarke)
1841 Meves (Neaves) with parents George & Louisa & siblings
1851 ? not with parents
1861 Neaves bc1834 Kew, gardener son for George & Louisa
1871 Neaves bc1833 Kew, painter, wife Fanny (nee Maling) sons Richard J & Edwd G
Fanny Maling married Richard Tubbs 1864
Richard Thomas Tubbs (mn Mayling b1865) (Edward George mn Maling )
1880 Edward married Grace Lester both widowed occ painter
1881?
1885 Edward widow married Caroline Orgles occ painter
1891 surname Ncrass bc 1833 Kew Surrey, decorator & painter wife Caroline, dau Letitia
NEAVES, EDWARD GEORGE mn MALING
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 116
Don't think a marriage was found for Edward Neaves to Fanny Maling/Tubbs though
-
Re: SS reply 7 address 46 Cardington Street for the Lester,'s
An ad in the Morning Post, 30 October 1878
Appears again on the 1st Nov, but it may say 45 Cardington Street on that one?
Again I might be duplicating info. posted.........1881
John William WARE Age 41
Spouse Charlotte Ware (nee Winwood)
Where born Langford, Essex
Civil parish St Pancras
Street Address 46 Cardington St
Marital Status Married
Occupation Crown Message (G S)
Piece 197 Folio 113 Page number 36
If Grace Lester nee Edwards was telling the truth about being a widow there should be a death for a Charles Lester Snr. after 1871 census and her 1880 marriage to Edward Neaves :-\
The Neaves should be somewhere on the 1881 census daughter Mary Lottie Letitia Neaves was born 30th October 1881
Edward NEAVES born c 1833, occupation painter/decorator
Grace (Emily) NEAVES born c1846
and if still alive the sons of Charles, occ wine merchant clerk and Grace
Edward LESTER born c 1864
Charles LESTER born c 1867
edit to add
Clara Amelia Maud LESTER born c 1878
but where ???
From FindMyPast
1881c taken on the night of 3 April 1881
Piece number 693 is missing from the 1881 Census:
house numbers 17-22 Cunard Street, Camberwell, London.
Part of house number 16 could be missing too if the house contained more children, a boarder or a visitor.
If the family were in that area that might explain why they cannot be found in 1881 ???
-
Fanny Louisa Neaves was born Sep 1873 Hendon MMN Maling
Walter in Dec 1871
Both died young
Death for Fanny Tubbs Sep 1874 Hendon age 27 which implies no marriage to Edward.
I discounted Grace technically being a widow as she wasn’t married to Charles but see what you mean she could still have been widowed from the relationship if he had died.
Would love to know where Clara Amelia Maud born 1878 was in 1881 too and if she was with her mother but looking like we will never know :-\.
-
1881 census is proving very difficult ???
Not found Edward George Neaves born to Edward & Fanny on the 1881 census either ???
I think this is the correct Edward George
George Edward Neaves 23, cabinet maker married 1893
father Edward, painter
George's occupations, Cabinet maker 1901, Painter 1911 , House decorator 1921
Adding snippet 1891 census for George E Neaves born c 1870 Kilburn occ cabinet maker
-
Yes that looks like him.
Worse case scenario what would the nearest workhouse be to the addresses we have around 1881?
Maybe they were all bundled in there together for a short time and worth a look through to see if anybody, even if just initials, stands out.
-
Had to get out the A-Z re addresses. Believe Cardington St and Hampstead Road are one of the same and were used interchangeable. So from 1878 Clara birth-1880 marriage. Pratt St appears on the scene from 1881 -3, approx 200-300 yards from Cardington Street.
SS
-
Were they large houses only looking through Cardington Street for 1881 there seem to be a lot of people living at one house number. Different heads of families so I wonder if they were lodging there and just missed off for some reason.
-
Hi,
I have been following this thread and are amazed as what has been discovered.
Just to add a long shot at a possible 1881 census link -
Ancestry has a Lester child age 3 born Marylebone resident at 54 Carlisle Street, Marylebone with a family headed by a widow Sarah Beament age 62 born Patton, Buckinghamshire (incorrect and amended by added comments)
Described as Nurse Child and Ancestry has her christian name showing as ??DI. Difficult to decipher the first name but could it possibly be Clara Amelia Maud Lester - there is no sign of mother?
Just a thought
Alan
-
Maybe :-\
Here's the ref details
Piece 158
Folio 20
Page number 33
Have added a snippet to see what anyone else thinks
-
Now that is a real possibility well found.
It could say Maud(e) rather than Clara which was one of her names anyway.
Have been following her and found a photo on a tree. Quite a sad photo as she doesn’t look well and died at 30 after having 6 children. No parents shown for her. Am tempted to get the marriage to see who she puts for her father, if anyone. If she did name one then would be some comfort she at least knew who he was as she isn’t with family as a child.
-
Hi,
I have just done the same and found trees on Ancestry - most private but there is at least one suggesting father is Charles Lester. This shows her as Claire not Clara.
Burial 6 Oct 1908, Acton Cemetery, Ealing - grave no N88/G, interment no 6353
Marriage in June Qtr 1905 - Brentford - Vol3a Page 320 - to Thomas Arthur Wilkins (born 1877)
Alan
-
Now that is a real possibility well found.
It could say Maud(e) rather than Clara which was one of her names anyway.
Have been following her and found a photo on a tree. Quite a sad photo as she doesn’t look well and died at 30 after having 6 children. No parents shown for her. Am tempted to get the marriage to see who she puts for her father, if anyone. If she did name one then would be some comfort she at least knew who he was as she isn’t with family as a child.
I have just done the same and found trees on Ancestry - most private but there is at least one suggesting father is Charles Lester. This shows her as Claire not Clara.
Burial 6 Oct 1908, Acton Cemetery, Ealing - grave no N88/G, interment no 6353
Marriage in June Qtr 1905 - Brentford - Vol3a Page 320 - to Thomas Arthur Wilkins (born 1877)
A shame none of the trees have the marriage detail.
If I'm looking at the right 1901 census they have a son named Charles , his middle name from birth GRO reg.
I wonder why they didn't marry until 1905 - first child Elizabeth born c1898
Piece 51
Folio 135
Page number 47
Thomas Willkins 23
Maude Willkins 22
Elizabeth Willkins 2
Charles Willkins 1
Frederick Willkins 2m
WILLKINS, ELIZABETH MARTHA mmn LESTER
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 305
WILKINS, THOMAS CHARLES mmn LESTER
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 137
Edit to add for info.
WILLKINS, MAUD CLARA 30
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 101
Daughter Lucy Marion born 30 Mar 1908 as shown on her Bpt 17 May 1908,
Lucy died in 1911 age 3, I think this is Lucy’s burial info. on Anc*y (transcript only)
July Mirrian Willkins age 3
Burial 6 May 1911
Burial Place Ealing, Greater London
Cemetery Acton Cemetery
Grave Number L83/G
Interment Number 7741
WILKINS, LUCY MARIAN 3
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 98
-
Yes I wonder why the late marriage too. There were 4 children born by then - Beatrice Maud born 1903 died 1905.
They were young parents but most were in those days. Father did remarry but some years later.
-
I have just been online and ordered the Family History where are they crystal ball. Will let everyone know all the answers we are seeking when it arrives. ;D
SS