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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 22 October 25 22:27 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out a little more about my grandfather's eldest brother - Albert Edward Pope b1890 in East Stonehouse, Devon. I have never really looked into his life in much detail - possibly because I have never taken out a Worldwide subscription for Ancestry or FindMyPast. Anyway, I think the time has come to try and find out a little more about him if anyone is able to help...
He was the son of a Royal Marine sergeant, Benjamin Pope and went into the Royal Marine Light Infantry following in family footsteps at the age of 13 after his father died suddenly in 1902. He left the service, invalided out in 1908 then married Emily Armstrong in 1910. After that, I have very little information about him that I have records for.
I do know that he went to the US with his wife and that there was a son called Gordon. I believe he went to Inglewood in Los Angeles and perhaps he worked as a musician at some stage. It was an option for my father to go to stay with him during WW2 but he never went and I don't believe he ever returned to the UK to see the siblings he left behind.
It would be great to see any information that exists on this man. He took a very different path to his brothers and I do wonder what he did. Thank you in advance for any information that might be out there that can be unearthed.
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FamilySearch is free. It has 1730 US data sets, including all of the censuses up to 1950 and 73 sets specific to California.
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FamilySearch is free. It has 1730 US data sets, including all of the censuses up to 1950 and 73 sets specific to California.
Thanks Erato. That's really helpful. There looks to be a lot of information there!
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USA Naturalization record - 2 May 1927 Los Angeles
Albert Edward Pope
Arrival date in USA from Canada - 12 May 1924
The son Gordon Hamelton Aubrey Pope was born in York Ontario Canada 18 Feb 1912
1921 Canada census has the Pope family at
84 Falling Creek Rd York East, Ontario.
Albert working as a labourer.
USA census has Albert working as a school custodian.
Find a grave entry
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/65924375/albert-e-pope
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Thanks Neale1961. I will look at that further - I had seen a different naturalization record card from 1930 on the FamilySearch. There's quite a bit to go on - I haven't looked at the census records just yet but will do.
Thanks again.
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Gordon's obituary is here - https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-los-angeles-times-obituary-for-gordo/183500262/ Sounds like he had an interesting life, as he was an oboe player and played on a number of famous films.
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Albert's declaration of intention for naturalization: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMM-6S7L-2?view=fullText&keywords=ALBERT%20EDWARD%20POPE%2CAlbert%20Edward%20Pope&lang=en&groupId=
Obituary for Emily, Albert's wife - https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-los-angeles-times-obituary-for-emily/183501473/
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Gordon's wife also had a very detailed obituary - https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-madisonian/183502316/
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Gordon's obituary is here - https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-los-angeles-times-obituary-for-gordo/183500262/ Sounds like he had an interesting life, as he was an oboe player and played on a number of famous films.
Thanks Shelly - that's really great to see and a very interesting obituary. I think there is still a bit to piece together for Albert - quite a bit of information to gather in the UK and then Canada before he gets to the US. I see the family lost a baby daughter at birth after they had Gordon. I think he was the first Pope relative to head to the Americas to settle. I don't think he ever returned to the UK to visit - my father born in 1937 tells me he never met him.
Very interesting details to add to my grandfather's wider family story so thank you.
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Albert and Emily arrived in St John New Brunswick Canada 27 March 1911. They were continuing on to Toronto Ontario and would have continued their journey by train.
PB
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I hadn't found the 1921 earlier, but now I see why I overlooked it...
Couple both say born Ontario - yes he's a labourer in a soap factory,
but his wife down as Gladys?...Gordon as born 1915 instead of 1912?
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=66255555&ecopy=e003050568
as suggested there is an extensive tree on FamilySearch site
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/G319-D79
Here they are in 1950...you can add this entry plus others you may find
that haven't been attached to the tree as yet...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6XGC-KS7B
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Thanks JJ.
There does look to be a decent tree in FamilySearch but I question the reliability of the information about Albert Pope - he is from Plymouth, not Bristol, and born in 1890. I've not really been able to do too much research into Albert Pope after he left the UK but I'm confident that I have the right guy that has appeared in California.
I did try to track down the relatives with trees containing Gordon and Albert Pope but have only made contact with one person to date who I don't think is related to the Plymouth Pope...
I guess there are challenges researching on the other side of the Atlantic sometimes.
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This thread has a lot of information researched & found for you! Plus, you seemed to want to round it out with more info from Canada, which we've all happily found for you, including entry to Canada from polarbear above, and all results on the previous page proving their entry to the U.S. and subsequently the son Gordon's lengthy career in California. They found the "right guy" in California. It's not unusual to find discrepancies in some information, but there are a lot on that census alone...regardless of all that I'm 99% sure all information found by rootschatters still fits in to pointing to the same couple.
There were several other Albert Edwards, so if you have information to correct the FS tree, you should contact them & talk it over)
However if you are that doubtful, you might consider that they could have juggled all that info because either he or she did not want to be found after leaving England...so if something happened back in England you must research that reason for yourself.
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Thanks JJ for your latest. I hope you don't feel I was being critical of the help here in Roots Chat. Anything but! The assistance here has been great - it always is. Apologies if my message suggested otherwise.
It was just my observation that the tree in Family Search had identified the wrong Albert Pope in the UK. I'm sure that all of the information collected on him from the time of his marriage in the UK to his life in the US and Canada is correct. I just question what came before the marriage and the tree in links to a family in Bristol rather than Plymouth. Everything about the Albert Pope here looks to be correct - it's just the details on the tree don't add up prior to the move across to Canada.
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Well, you had said that YOU'D found the right guy... but it was all of the above.
BTW, you were pointed to the entry into the U.S. which I'll post & it does say Plymouth.
So go in to the results of this url and hit the turquoise button that says "Attach to tree" & attach it.
You can also make changes to his place of birth, etc, or ask the tree owner to do it.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKQM-5ZQK?treeref=MZVN-21Y&lang=en
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Thanks for that - it's good to see and something that is not readily available to me here in the UK. There's plenty in the US and Canadian sources that have kindly been identified here to link Albert and Emily to Plymouth. It's been interesting to see where they went after leaving the UK.
I'm not a regular user of Family Search and have not updated anyone else's trees previously. I think the owner of the tree in question is someone that I contacted through Ancestry. I mentioned there was a problem with the Albert not being from Bristol and therefore not necessarily the person that was linked to their family.
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Modified:
;D Well, a bit of "learn to do by doing" required then... You'll have to sign up ;D
adding !!! Don't add any of this next stuff yet!!!
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revising: Just do the one change for now, as it proves his Plymouth origins...and if you are comfortable with it, add more to his basic page info a bit at a time...same with Emily. Adding what you know to be true...but if he's chasing the wrong ancestors, it would be best to point it out to them again rather than deleting any ancestors yourself. There should be email or chat info connected to the username in order to contact them about it... J.J.
adding to help you confirm to the tree owner, attach these souces:
Naturalization - California can be attached to him. Says b. 21 Apr 1890 Plymouth!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6RBF-9DYL
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9H-8X5L
More that you can attach to tree...b. 21 Apr 1890 England d. 26 Sep 1973
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VGTS-S7G
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overlandermatt was looking for the son of Benjamin Thomas Pope, who has been found in Canada, then California. This is a different one, for others searching
There was another man in Ontario with same name, etc.
Posting because I found these, altho not related to the post, but for others searching
adding this one...another Albert Edward Pope
a ww1 C.E.F. signup Sept. 1915 Toronto, ontario - says b. May 14 1888
Portsmouth, Hampshire , England Unit: 81st Battalion
father: John POPE GLYST. COTTAGE Manor Rd. HAYLING ISLAND HAMPSHIRE
says single/florist/Gardener born May 14th Plymouth? https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.redirect?app=pffww&id=579034&lang=eng&ecopy=B7901-S002
Discharged unfit for duty 1919 & the gas shell discharge would have weakened his lungs
Married Lillie Henderson Brampton Ontario 1920-parents John Pope & Mary ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9ST-RFKN
small tree with death of a child
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/GYKN-LC4
adding: His early death has Parents John Pope, Mary Matilda Langdon
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6FM3-SQV
and that last entry was attached to THIS tree...
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/G5NQ-LTH
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and another Albert Edward Pope b. 1882 Westcliffe or Nunhead -sign-up Regina sask
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.redirect?app=pffww&id=579035&lang=eng&ecopy=581435a
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Just want to point out that the family your Albert Edward Pope was attached to, was also one that lost both parents at a young age...so locating them was also difficult as you know...orphan children who were sent to institutions & then sometimes placed out to jobs elsewhere in the country, or even became homechildren in other countries.
Did you ever get notified of this answer to this other post:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880343.msg7527338#msg7527338
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Hello JJ. I've been working through my grandfather's 6 siblings this winter having discovered a few basics previously. I have seen the replies to the other post. I'm still looking into the schooling but it's likely to need more in-person research in future. The father, Benjamin died in 1902 then the mother Clara in 1922.
Of the 7 children, the three girls all went to work in the Caterham Mental Asylum near London as nurses (I don't know when), Albert stayed at home for a couple of years (maybe at school but also doing some work) then joined the Royal Marines shortly before his 14th birthday. He was invalided out after 4 or 5 years. The three younger brothers were all sent to the Royal Hospital School in Greenwich, in preparation for joining the Royal Marines. All three served throughout WW1.
In the UK, the 1880s-1920s period seems to be a good one for tracing relatives with a military connection where such detailed service records are available to go with the census returns of that time.
It's been good to learn a little more about Albert and his North American family here.
Albert was a bit unusual in that he settled in North America. I don't believe he ever returned to the UK to visit. I vaguely recall seeing a census with Frederick Charles Pope (b1896) in the US perhaps visiting his older brother but will need to check this detail. He's the next sibling I need to look at in more detail...