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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 22 October 25 22:05 BST (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help shed some light on a bit of a family mystery about my grandfather who was a Royal Marine from 1908-1932 and allegedly a bit of a musician - the 'bit' part is all rather uncertain. He was the son of a RMLI sergeant who had died in 1902 and went to the Greenwich Hospital School until 1911 when he entered service into the Royal Marines in Plymouth. At school, I believe many of the boys would be taught to play the bugle, fife or drums which I have read would be considered rather rudimentary instruments by a more serious musician...
On joining the RMLI at 15, boys would hold the rank of bugler until aged 18. Did this actually mean they had to play the bugle? I do wonder what the daily activities were for these teenagers before turning 18 and becoming privates who could be sent away to fight.
It was said of my grandfather that he always enjoyed his time as a member of the ship's band. However, I'm not entirely sure what this meant. He was first and foremost a Royal Marine trained to fight. I don't know how ships' bands were organised - were they all keen amateurs, a bit like a colliery band? Would there have been a greater number of men capable of playing an instrument back in the 1910-20s that would have meant putting a small band together was no problem?
The Royal Marines Band is a highly professional group of musicians these days. I believe that larger ships may have had a permanent band presence aboard but I'm just not sure how my grandfather would have fitted into such a band if indeed he was good enough to do so.
The word is that he played a number of brass instruments but it's not clear to me how this worked. I can't imagine someone showing up with a tuba in their kit bag for 3 years at sea and it would no doubt have been a source of some resentment among the other men if one could get off normal duties. I think I read that the ship's band might have played when the ships were taking on coal to keep up morale!
As a bit of an aside, I had read that my grandfather's older brother moved to California and became a musician in the 1920s so there must have been some sort of musical exposure in the family at a young age. I also saw a photo of another relative - a nephew of my grandfather in his RM uniform polishing up a French horn - suggesting that there must have been amateur musicians participating in bands aboard ship.
Any thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated. There are a couple of books written by John Ambler on the history of the Royal Marine Band Service that I might need to turn to but this looks to be a deeper immersion than I was planning right now!
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Did your grandfather have a name and date of birth that you want to share?
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"The original Royal Marines Band Service, together with its headquarters, the Royal Naval School of Music, was founded in 1903 to provide Bands for the Royal Navy."
"Its original home was Eastney Barracks Portsmouth; where it remained until 1930"
https://www.royalmarinesbands.co.uk/royal-marines-band-service-historic-articles/
If your grandfather was not trained at Eastney Barracks Portsmouth, then presumably he may have augmented an official Royal Marines Band or played in an amateur band.
Tony
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Did your grandfather have a name and date of birth that you want to share?
Arthur George Pope b1893 East Stonehouse, Devon is my grandfather. I have never come across anything in any of his military records that indicates a musical connection - other than a picture of the drum and fife band in the Greenwich Hospital School magazine in 1907.
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If your grandfather was not trained at Eastney Barracks Portsmouth, then presumably he may have augmented an official Royal Marines Band or played in an amateur band.
Thanks Tony. I suspect that you are right about augmenting a more formal band or participating on a more informal, ad hoc basis. I couldn't see any formal record of HMS Duke of Edinburgh, his ship for WW1 having a formal band in terms of its crew list but I have read that there was a band that would play when taking on supplies or re-coaling.
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In the 1911 census Arthur George Pope, age 17, is a “drummer with Royal Marines”
His mother Clara ( a widow) was working as a tailoress for the Royal Marines
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I assume you have the full Royal Marines record for Arthur George Pope which can be downloaded free from The National Archives.
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It looks as if his father Benjamin was also a Drummer (at one time) with the Royal Marines.
In 1881 census, Benjamin is a bugler.
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2 more items about Benjamin's desertion in NSW.
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Thanks Neale. Yes that is the man and I have collected as much information on Arthur as I can find - the service record and attestation pack (which was very informative). You have found his father Benjamin too. He set off from Plymouth for Australia at 16 and didn't return for 5 years! I've looked at the ships movements through the Australian papers and the desertion rate was pretty high!
On the subject of the bands, I can see that at Jutland, there were 16 formal bandsmen aboard HMS Duke of Edinburgh which presumably would have been enough for a decent band! Whether anyone else could join in, I have no idea...