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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: ashtayl04 on Tuesday 21 October 25 08:37 BST (UK)
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Hello, i’ve been on a mission to find the Parent’s of my Third Great Grandfather John Owen Williams,
I’m not sure on his definitive birth year or location but on the 1911 census he’s given his birth and location as 1869 in Tregaron, Cardiganshire
In 1921 he’s given his birth year as 1866 in New Quay, Cardiganshire
I found him in 1891 in Porth, Pontypridd living alongside other occupants as a boarder in a household with an occupation “Clerk” with a Esther & John Williams and their sons Idris and John
He married Elizabeth Harris on the 5th June 1892 in Llanwonno and gave his abode as Porth and his father as William Williams (Deceased)
So it’s been a bit of a tricky one,
I found an 1881 census for a john O wiliams living with Anne Williams in Mill Street, Tregaron, birth location New Quay, birth year 1868
Is anyone able to work out this puzzle?
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I found an 1881 census for a john O wiliams living with Anne Williams in Mill Street, Tregaron, birth location New Quay, birth year 1868
Anne Williams wife 46 Hawker's wife born Mathry, Pembrokeshire
John O Williams son 13 born New Quay, Cardiganshire
Following that lead back to 1871 in Tregarron:
William Williams 42 Earthen ware dealer, born Cardigan Town
Anne Williams wife 42 from Mathry, Pembrokeshire
Mary A Williams 16 born Newquay, Cardiganshire
Ellinor Williams 10 born Cilcenin, Cardiganshire
Jane Wiliams 8 born Newquay
John Owens - 7 born Newquay
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New Quay was in Aberayron RD.
This GRO birth looks likely:
WILLIAMS, JOHN OWEN Mother's maiden name OWENS
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in ABERAYRON Volume 11B Page 50
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Hello Shaun, Thank you for your fast response,
This is a very strong possibility, i’m just trying to decipher why he’s placed his birth location as tregaron on 1891,1901,1911 and than New Quay in 1921?
Following a search into the people that he is lodging with in 1891, his birth date is given 1870, Esther Wife of head he is lodging with is not only also a williams, but born in Tregaron too, in 1851 tracing a possible search backwards shows john Williams the head’s father being William Williams, and than hints take me to an 1841 census with a william williams as a head with a son named william and a son named john, but not 100% certain its a good lead because its common surnames
Is their anyway you might be able to find a death reg for the william williams you’ve found? We know he died before 1892 due to his son’s Marriage cert marking him as deceased
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https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/47301251?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a224171582b79544f6957306a7734362f306a53725463652b61767147504e3932564d6c71677a575556684a513d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d
John Owen in 1891
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https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/47301275?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a227273356f42655459314b48726f464172346f774d6331346e33305a6c4f6f57434c56314653583442314f553d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d
Marriage of John Owen and Elizabeth Harris
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Can you link in the above records to the ones you’ve found in some way?
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1861 census in Cilcennin:
William Williams 33 Earthen and Ware Dealer, born Town of Cardigan
Anne Williams 33 born Mathry, Pembrokeshire
Phepe Williams 10 born Mathry, Pembrokeshire
Aenion Williams 9 born Mathry, Pembrokeshire
Mary Ann Williams 6 Llanerchayron, Cardiganshire
John George Williams 3 born Cilcennin, Cardiganshire
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Mary Ann Williams was married in January 1877 at Tregaron to Joseph Edwards, a mason. Her father William Williams, a hawker.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FWAL%2F4214730%2F00193&parentid=GBPRS%2FM%2F876003176%2F2
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When did william williams die though
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Please remember that not all of us have access to Ancestry - its always better to trnascribe.
Nesta
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Possible death for William Williams in Tregaron RD in 2Q 1886: aged 56, 11b 57
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That 1886 death may not be him. Photo on Find a Grave:
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2023/98/UNCEM_2760818_3fd0846a-58ac-4742-bac0-c59be315d001.jpeg?v=1680985822
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/251982256/william-williams
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/22055524/person/28674354501/facts
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1861 census in Cilcennin:
William Williams 33 Earthen and Ware Dealer, born Town of Cardigan
Anne Williams 33 born Mathry, Pembrokeshire
Phepe Williams 10 born Mathry, Pembrokeshire ----PHEBE mmn THOMAS
Aenion Williams 9 born Mathry, Pembrokeshire ---- EYNON mmn THOMAS
Mary Ann Williams 6 Llanerchayron, Cardiganshire
John George Williams 3 born Cilcennin, Cardiganshire
1871
William Williams 42 Earthen ware dealer, born Cardigan Town
Anne Williams wife 42 from Mathry, Pembrokeshire
Mary A Williams 16 born Newquay, Cardiganshire
Ellinor Williams 10 born Cilcenin, Cardiganshire---ELINOR---mmn THOMAS
Jane Wiliams 8 born Newquay ----JANE ----mmn THOMAS
John Owens - 7 born Newquay
Cannot find births for other children!
SS
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We know for definite from the 1892 Marriage Registration for John Owen Williams and Elizabeth/Elspeth Harris, William Williams is John Owen Williams Father, we know he was deceased (William Williams) Before 1892, 1891 John O is a Boarder at the residence of John and Esther Williams, (Esther is also from Tregaron Strangely) as we picked up, and we know he gave his birth as new quay in 1921 and Tregaron in 1911,1901 & 1891
But what is the definitive proof that we’ve gone through that suggests that this possible family are the correct family of John Owen, as we know it’s a common surname right? And their isn’t a birth reg for John with the second forename “Owen” so i’m just trying to be cautious 🙂 one mistake creates a rabbit hole for other relatives! So i try be as precise as i can
Kind Regards
Ashton
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I quite agree with your views ashton, this may well not be the correct family but elimination is also part of good research.
SS
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Absolutely, this is the issue with Welsh Roots, the further back the common surname, the difficult the resources get! And than it becomes near enough impossible 🤣
Ash
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If you're looking to trace wife Esther from 1891 census, it looks like she isn't the mother of the Idris & John jnr. 1881 shows John senr. as a widower
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2W9-8QNP?lang=en
possible marriage in 1889 registered Pontypridd to Esther Davies.
There's also an 1889 marriage registered Merthyr Tydfil to Esther Milkins but she was born in 1870.