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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mudmonster on Monday 20 October 25 13:31 BST (UK)
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Hello,Can anyone tell me if you were a silk winder circa 1891 ,would you be working from home or employed in a mill as my grandmother used to do this somewhere near Wheelock in Sandbach Cheshire she was aged 10 ,can you also tell me if there was a silk mill near there
Thanks
Mud
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1909 OS 25 inc map, Wheelock area, a silk mill.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/114584791#zoom=5.6&lat=1400&lon=12245&layers=BT
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Thanks Alan ,great find
Mud
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I was intrigued as to whether a girl of that age could work in a factory by that date. I found that in 1891 the Factory and Workshop Act 1891 (Royal Assent 5th August 1891) raised the minimum legal working age from ten to eleven years old. This Act built upon the earlier Factory and Workshop Act 1878 which had already consolidated prior laws forbidding the employment of children under ten.
So a girl who was ten at the time of the 1891 census was able to work legally, but–depending upon the date of her eleventh birthday–may have become illegal for a few months.
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Hello Alan ,in the 1891 cencus it says she was a silk winder and scholar her name was Susan Maxted and i think they lived at Wheelock Wharf Sandbach(not sure as no access to 1891 cencus anymore)
Thanks
Mud
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She is listed as silk winder and scholar, as is her elder sister Martha 12. This reflects the fact that the provisions of Factory and Education Acts meant that these young children were employed half-time and were expected to be in school for the other half.
The family were living in Brook Terrace. The map below is a 25 inch map from around that time. Brook Terrace isn't labelled but it seems to be those houses immediately to the right of the 'k' of Wheelock – slide the slider to reveal a modern map where it is labelled.
If you head north on what is now Crewe Road, past the Nag's Head, over the bridge (River Wheelock), past the Methodist Chapel and up to the next bridge over the canal you will see the Silk Mill to the NE. Now zoom out a little and to the west you will see Wheelock Forge and Salt Works. To the NE beyond the Silk Mill is the Old Salt Works. Susan's father is described as an alkali worker – he probably worked at one of these plants, where local salt (sodium chloride) would be converted to the alkali caustic soda (sodium hydroxide).
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.8&lat=53.12936&lon=-2.37640&layers=168&b=osm&o=100
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Thanks again Alan , great work and many thanks
Mud
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Returning to your original question, I got an answer from an AI about the job of a silk winder. It clearly wasn’t something that was done at home.
A **silk winder** was a worker in the historical silk textile industry responsible for **winding silk thread onto spools or bobbins** before it moved on to later stages of production such as twisting, doubling, or weaving. The role often involved operating a winding frame or reel that transferred raw or cleaned silk from skeins or hanks onto bobbins in preparation for twisting or weaving.[1][2]
### Nature of the Work
Winding was considered the **first and simplest step** in silk processing and was typically performed by **young women or children** in factories or mills during the 18th and 19th centuries. Workers monitored multiple reels, ensuring smooth and even winding, detangling knots, and maintaining thread tension. Breaks in the silk were repaired manually by rejoining fine filaments, requiring dexterity and patience.[2][5][6]
### Working Conditions
The occupation was part of a larger silk “throwing” process, where winding, doubling, and twisting occurred in sequence. Winding rooms were usually on the upper floors of silk mills, where girls and women attended to their reels and bobbins powered by machinery. The work was repetitive and could involve long hours, often in warm and humid environments needed to keep the silk pliable.[6]
In summary, a **silk winder** prepared raw or cleaned silk for the next industrial stages by winding it carefully onto bobbins, forming a vital early link in the silk production chain.
Sources
[1] Dictionary of Old Occupations - S https://www.familyresearcher.co.uk/glossary/Dictionary-of-Old-Occupations-jobs-beginning-S5.html
[2] 371.—Silk Winders, Cleaners, and Doublers - DOOT http://doot.spub.co.uk/code.php?value=371
[3] Old Occupations - S https://rmhh.co.uk/occup/s.html
[4] Dictionary of Old Occupations - W https://www.familyresearcher.co.uk/glossary/Dictionary-of-Old-Occupations-jobs-beginning-W4.html
[5] Child Employment in the Silk Industry 1815-1871 – Part 1 https://pasttopresentgenealogy.co.uk/2016/11/01/child-employment-in-the-silk-industry-1815-1871-part-1/
[6] Silk throwing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_throwing
[7] 398.—Other Skilled Workers - DOOT http://doot.spub.co.uk/code.php?value=398
[8] Some old job titles from the textile industries. https://www.weasteheritagetrail.co.uk/Resources/some-old-job-titles-from-the-textile-industries/index.htm
[9] List of Old English Occupations and descriptions http://www.worldthroughthelens.com/family-history/old-occupations.php
[10] Resources - Old Occupations http://explorers.mlfhs.org.uk/explorer_resource_occupations.htm
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Thanks Alan ,very interesting
Mud
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By way of example, here's a photo' of my Great-Aunt Maggie winding silk in the back garden of her house on Cherry Tree Lane, Sockport. (The photo' dates from the first half of the 20C and there were, alegedly, looms in several nearby houses.)
The 1921 indicates that the silk was woven at home for a firm in Macclesfield; some miles down the road.
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Is that winding, or is it spinning? My AI again:
**Silk winding** and **spinning** are quite different processes, even though both relate to preparing silk for weaving or fabric manufacture.
### Core Difference
- **Silk winding** refers to **transferring silk threads**—already produced as continuous filaments—onto bobbins or reels to prepare them for twisting or weaving. It involves organizing, cleaning, and tensioning existing silk threads rather than creating new yarn.[9]
- **Silk spinning**, in contrast, is the process of **creating yarn from short silk fibres** (often waste silk or damaged cocoons). The fibres are **carded, drawn, twisted, and spun**, similar to how cotton or wool is made into thread.[5][8][9]
### Summary
In essence, **winding** is about **handling continuous silk filaments**, while **spinning** is about **making yarn from shorter fibres**. The former is a preparatory operation in silk mills; the latter is a yarn-forming process resembling wool or cotton spinning.
Sources
[1] Comparison of Cotton, Wool, Silk and Linen Spinning ... https://fyitester.com/cotton-wool-silk-and-linen-spinning-process/
[2] Comparison of Cotton, Wool, Silk and Linen Spinning Processes https://www.gordonengland.co.uk/sef/Thread-Comparison-of-Cotton-Wool-Silk-and-Linen-Spinning-Processes
[3] Types of Silk Fiber https://www.hilltopcloud.co.uk/blog/silk
[4] The Basics of Fiber Processing | Deep in the Heart of Textiles https://textileranger.com/basics-of-fiber-processing/
[5] SILK SPINNING https://hbmahesh.weebly.com/uploads/3/4/2/2/3422804/silk_spinning.pdf
[6] What are the types of yarn material and mean?Which ... https://sixdragontextile.com/new/what-are-the-types-of-yarn.html
[7] The Art of Handspinning Silk Fibre https://sweetgeorgiayarns.com/the-art-of-handspinning-silk-fibre/
[8] Spinning – Knowledge and References https://taylorandfrancis.com/knowledge/Engineering_and_technology/Materials_science/Spinning/
[9] What is the difference between spun silk and reeled silk? https://www.wangusilk.com/news/industry-news/what-is-the-difference-between-spun-silk-and-reeled-silk.html
[10] Spin with Eri Silk Top or Eri Silk Roving? Cathe Describes ... https://www.muezart.com/blogs/muezart-musings/spin-with-eri-silk-top-or-eri-silk-roving-cathe-describes-the-difference
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I’ve always understood it to be winding - I think the spinning was done elsewhere. G-aunt Maggie (and her family) were essentially silk weavers. I assume the silk thread was delivered in bulk and she had to break it down to smaller quantities so she could use it on the loom.