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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mrjmitchell on Tuesday 14 October 25 23:11 BST (UK)

Title: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Tuesday 14 October 25 23:11 BST (UK)
Hello. I have been researching my family tree for months now and have managed to go way back down different branches. However, my maternal grandmother's branch seems to be impossible to find after my 2nd great grandparents. All I have for them is a marriage certificate, which I've attached. Their names were Thomas McGuire & Catherine Mulligan and they were married in Belfast in 1876. Both have their father's names on the certificate. I know that at some point they moved to Glasgow where they had Francis John McGuire, my great grandfather. But I can't seem to find any information on the parents of Thomas & Catherine other than their father's names. I've tried searching Irish Ancestry records but can't seem to find much. All very confusing. Can anyone help? Thanks.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: bevj on Wednesday 15 October 25 19:56 BST (UK)
If they died in Scotland, I think their death certificates would include their mothers' maiden names.
Bev
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 15 October 25 20:07 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat

Son Francis was b 1885

Possible 1901 entry for Glasgow

John McGuire 68 b Ireland
Mary McGuire 68 b Ireland
Francis McGuire b Glasgow grandson

A Robert McGuire - mmn Mulligan was born 1879 Lanarkshire
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 15 October 25 20:31 BST (UK)
Here is the parish record - Maguire - which gives his parents as John and Sarah McMahon. Unfortunately, the parents residence has been scribbled over.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/50/mode/1up
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Wednesday 15 October 25 20:36 BST (UK)
Fantastic! Thanks so much
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 15 October 25 20:40 BST (UK)
I haven’t yet found a baptism for Thomas, but here is one for John to those parents in 1855. The residence is shown as ‘Analoist’. It is a transcript.
The townland may be Aghnacloy?
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-east/shankill/lurgan/aghnacloy/


**see KG’s post later
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 15 October 25 20:46 BST (UK)
....but here is one for John to those parents in 1855. The residence is shown as ‘Analoist’. It is a transcript.

Heywood, here's the townland of Annaloist beside Lough Neagh.

https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-east/seagoe/brownlows-derry/annaloist/


Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Wednesday 15 October 25 21:11 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for all your help. I've found out more tonight than I have in months. Is there a way to find the parents of John & Sarah?
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Wednesday 15 October 25 21:17 BST (UK)
Does anyone know what the surname for Catherine's mother is? I'm struggling to read it. Susan *?
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 15 October 25 21:26 BST (UK)
There is a death on Scotland's people could be a possibility
Catherine McGuire other name Mulligan 1899 St Rollox age 57  mothers maiden name Cosgrove

Rosie

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 15 October 25 22:05 BST (UK)
Another son possibility
Edward James Maguire 1882 Blackfriars mothers maiden name Mulligan
Death Edward James Maguire  1884 Calton Glasgow

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 15 October 25 22:16 BST (UK)
Is that your tree on Ancestry with Catherine Mulligan mothers name as Susan Cosgrove ?

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Wednesday 15 October 25 22:22 BST (UK)
Is that your tree on Ancestry with Catherine Mulligan mothers name as Susan Cosgrove ?

Rosie

Hi Rosie. Yes, That's mine. I'm trying different surnames for Susan. I think it may be Cosgrove. I posted an image in the thread and the surname does look like Cosgrove.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 01:30 BST (UK)
Son Francis was b 1885

A Robert McGuire - mmn Mulligan was born 1879 Lanarkshire

Take care ! - there is another Maguire/ Mulligan family.
Robert McGuire b 1879 Coatbridge - belongs to Patrick Maguire and Roseanne Mulligan
also
Jane McGuire b 1881 Airdrie -- belongs to Patrick Maguire and Roseanne Mulligan
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 02:06 BST (UK)
1881 census 30 Princes St., Blackfriars
Thomas McGuire 27 general labourer born Ireland
Catherine McGuire 30 born Ireland
Patrick McGuire 4 born Glasgow (*)
Thomas McGuire 7 months born Glasgow (**)


Birth records on SP
(*) Patrick MCGUIRE birth 1877 Blackfriars; Mother - MacLAGHAN
(**) Thomas MCGUIRE birth 1880 Blackfriars; Mother - MALLIGAN


Other possible births you should check out:-
-   John McGUIRE 1878 Blackfriars; mother – MALLAGHAN. Died age 2 in 1879 Blackfriars
-   Edward James McGUIRE 1882 Blackfriars; mother – MULLIGAN. Died age 3 in 1884 Calton
-   Sarah McGUIRE 1883 Blackfriars; mother – MALLIGAN
-   Francis John McGUIRE 1885 Blythswood; mother - MULLIGAN
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 02:52 BST (UK)

When he married in 1876 Thomas Maguire was a widower.
Was his previous marriage in Ireland?      Scotland?     Elsewhere?
I didn’t see any likely marriage in Ireland. 
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 07:31 BST (UK)
Francis John McGuire is with his Sarah – his sister’s family in 1911 Glasgow.

Sarah McGUIRE married Francis SHIELDS in 1905 Blythswood
That might be a useful record to see whether it says her father is dead or alive.

Sarah died in Glasgow in 1954.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 16 October 25 07:36 BST (UK)
Is that your tree on Ancestry with Catherine Mulligan mothers name as Susan Cosgrove ?

Rosie

Hi Rosie. Yes, That's mine. I'm trying different surnames for Susan. I think it may be Cosgrove. I posted an image in the thread and the surname does look like Cosgrove.


I would check the death I mentioned just to make sure it's the person you are looking for

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 October 25 07:39 BST (UK)
....but here is one for John to those parents in 1855. The residence is shown as ‘Analoist’. It is a transcript.

Heywood, here's the townland of Annaloist beside Lough Neagh.

https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-east/seagoe/brownlows-derry/annaloist/

Great - thank you
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 07:43 BST (UK)
There is a death on Scotland's people could be a possibility
Catherine McGuire other name Mulligan 1899 St Rollox age 57  mothers maiden name Cosgrove

This should tell you if she was a widow, or if her husband Thomas was still living.

There are quite a few possible deaths for Thomas, that you would be best to try and reduce your search time frame.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 16 October 25 07:49 BST (UK)
Francis John McGuire is with his Sarah – his sister’s family in 1911 Glasgow.

Sarah McGUIRE married Francis SHIELDS in 1905 Blythswood
That might be a useful record to see whether it says her father is dead or alive.

Sarah died in Glasgow in 1954.

He has a copy of the marriage 1916: for Francis John McGuire on his tree and father deceased .The father doesn't seem to be on any of the census forms after 1881 checking the death for Catherine 1899 will give information on Thomas if he is still alive

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 October 25 07:49 BST (UK)
Just for information, but it gives you a timeline to work with.
Baptism of Mary A , 11th April 1847 with parents John and Sally, Analoist.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633281?locale=en#page/99/mode/1up

There is also Alice, baptised April 1851
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 07:57 BST (UK)
He has a copy of the marriage 1916: for Francis John McGuire on his tree and father deceased .The father doesn't seem to be on any of the census forms after 1881 checking the death for Catherine 1899 will give information on Thomas if he is still alive

Correct - which was why I previously suggested the same.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 16 October 25 08:05 BST (UK)
He has a copy of the marriage 1916: for Francis John McGuire on his tree and father deceased .The father doesn't seem to be on any of the census forms after 1881 checking the death for Catherine 1899 will give information on Thomas if he is still alive

Correct - which was why I previously suggested the same.

My internet was playing up posted after you had  :D apologies

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Thursday 16 October 25 08:23 BST (UK)

When he married in 1876 Thomas Maguire was a widower.
Was his previous marriage in Ireland?      Scotland?     Elsewhere?
I didn’t see any likely marriage in Ireland. 

I had a search through Irish records for Thomas's previous marriage but couldn't find anything which is strange.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Thursday 16 October 25 08:33 BST (UK)
Francis John McGuire is with his Sarah – his sister’s family in 1911 Glasgow.

Sarah McGUIRE married Francis SHIELDS in 1905 Blythswood
That might be a useful record to see whether it says her father is dead or alive.

Sarah died in Glasgow in 1954.

Excellent! Thank you. I did have my great Grandfather Francis John on this census record and wasn't sure who he was living with. Confirms it's his sister and husband.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 October 25 08:58 BST (UK)

Here is the parish record - Maguire - which gives his parents as John and Sarah McMahon. Unfortunately, the parents residence has been scribbled over.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/50/mode/1up


Faffing about with light and contrast, I read Aughagallon, which may be Aghagallon (civil parish and townland within) - which isn't too far from Annaloist.

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 October 25 09:22 BST (UK)
Just for information, but it gives you a timeline to work with.
Baptism of Mary A , 11th April 1847 with parents John and Sally, Analoist.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633281?locale=en#page/99/mode/1up

There is also Alice, baptised April 1851

And John, baptised 20 May 1855 for parents John Maguire and Sarah McMahon of Analoist.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633281?locale=en#page/123/mode/1up (near bottom)

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 October 25 09:30 BST (UK)
Likely sister of Catherine, Mary Mallaghan of Chapel Lane, married Robert Morrow of Hamill Street in St. Mary's, Belfast, on 30 September 1878, her parents given as Patrick and Susan Mallaghan:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/60/mode/1up (6 entries down)

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Thursday 16 October 25 09:39 BST (UK)
Likely sister of Catherine, Mary Mallaghan of Chapel Lane, married Robert Morrow of Hamill Street in St. Mary's, Belfast, on 30 September 1878, her parents given as Patrick and Susan Mallaghan:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/60/mode/1up (6 entries down)

Wonderful finds. Thank you all so much for your help.  :)
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 09:56 BST (UK)
Possible death for Patrick Mallaghan in 1874
Occupation – dealer
Daughter Catherine is informant
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020673/7253940.pdf


Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 October 25 09:59 BST (UK)

When he married in 1876 Thomas Maguire was a widower.
Was his previous marriage in Ireland?      Scotland?     Elsewhere?
I didn’t see any likely marriage in Ireland. 

I had a search through Irish records for Thomas's previous marriage but couldn't find anything which is strange.

(1) Mary Jane Maguire born at 47 (or 117 mistranscribed?) Bentinck Street on 21 September 1874 to Thomas Maguire of 117 Bentinck Street and Jane Mullen:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03129/2147337.pdf

(2) Death of married labourer's wife Jane Maguire at 72 Bentinck Street on 2 July 1875, which is a match for Thomas' address at the time of his 1876 marriage to Catherine Malligan, Jane Stewart of same address was the informant:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020616/7233340.pdf

(3) Marriage of Thomas Maguire to Jane Mullen at Aghagallon RC church on 23 May 1871, his address Derryclone townland - again in the vicinity - and his father given as John, a weaver:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11342/8163468.pdf

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/aghagallon/derryclone/

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Thursday 16 October 25 10:16 BST (UK)

Amazing work! Thank you

When he married in 1876 Thomas Maguire was a widower.
Was his previous marriage in Ireland?      Scotland?     Elsewhere?
I didn’t see any likely marriage in Ireland. 

I had a search through Irish records for Thomas's previous marriage but couldn't find anything which is strange.

(1) Mary Jane Maguire born at 47 (or 117 mistranscribed?) Bentinck Street on 21 September 1874 to Thomas Maguire of 117 Bentinck Street and Jane Mullen:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03129/2147337.pdf

(2) Death of married labourer's wife Jane Maguire at 72 Bentinck Street on 2 July 1875, which is a match for Thomas' address at the time of his 1876 marriage to Catherine Malligan, Jane Stewart of same address was the informant:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020616/7233340.pdf

(3) Marriage of Thomas Maguire to Jane Mullen at Aghagallon RC church on 23 May 1871, his address Derryclone townland - again in the vicinity - and his father given as John, a weaver:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11342/8163468.pdf

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/aghagallon/derryclone/
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 October 25 10:35 BST (UK)
This is just a speculative "maybe", so just to note until it can be ruled in or out.

From the Aghagallon RC parish registers, a son Patrick was baptised for a couple called John Maguire and Sarah McMahon on 14 January 1862:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633070#page/171/mode/1up (left page)

I think Patrick may have been a tailender for this couple, I don't see later children.

A 27 year old Patrick Maguire of Drumaleet married Teresa Collins on 10 February 1891, his father recorded as John, a farmer:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10657/5883175.pdf

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/aghagallon/aghagallon/drumaleet/ (again - in the vicinity)

A 60 year old farmer's wife Sarah Maguire died at Drumaleet on 3 December 1879, a John Maguire of Drumaleet was the informant:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06501/4871958.pdf

Widower John and son Patrick's family at Drumaleet in 1901:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Aghagallon/Drumaleet/1002526/

John died at Drumaleet on 14 March 1908:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05508/4543628.pdf

The names involved aren't uncommon, so as I said, just a punt to look at for now.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Thursday 16 October 25 10:59 BST (UK)
Has anyone found any information that could tell me the parents of John Maguire & Sarah McMahon. And Patrick Mallaghan/Mulligan? I also believe his wife to be Susan Cosgrove but not confirmed yet. Thanks
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Thursday 16 October 25 11:18 BST (UK)
Patrick Mallaghan’s death suggests he was born about 1814, but without knowing where he was born, it will be difficult to find a birth.
I haven’t yet found a death for his wife Susan.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Thursday 16 October 25 11:24 BST (UK)
Patrick Mallaghan’s death suggests he was born about 1814, but without knowing where he was born, it will be difficult to find a birth.
I haven’t yet found a death for his wife Susan.

Thanks again for all your help.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 16 October 25 12:51 BST (UK)
Has anyone found any information that could tell me the parents of John Maguire & Sarah McMahon. And Patrick Mallaghan/Mulligan? I also believe his wife to be Susan Cosgrove but not confirmed yet. Thanks

As suggested several times view the death for Catherine Mulligan/McGuire 1899 to confirm her parents

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 October 25 12:59 BST (UK)
Here is the death of Jane Maguire in 1875. Her address is 72 Bentinck Street, which is the same address for Thomas on his marriage.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020616/7233340.pdf

I can see on one site a Catholic marriage, 25th of May 1871 between Thomas McGuire and Jane Mallon. The parish is Agaghallon.
Looking at Catholic NLI site, I can’t find the marriages but maybe if you search a bit more they will come up.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 October 25 13:09 BST (UK)
Civil marriage here for Thomas McGuire and Jane Mullen
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11342/8163468.pdf

Hopefully this is Thomas’s first marriage.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 October 25 14:19 BST (UK)
So sorry gaffy - I see you have posted this information and even more. Somehow I missed it in the post about the other family.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 October 25 15:51 BST (UK)
Not a problem :)

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 October 25 16:32 BST (UK)
Patrick Mallaghan’s death suggests he was born about 1814, but without knowing where he was born, it will be difficult to find a birth.
I haven’t yet found a death for his wife Susan.

There is this death for a Susan Malaghan in 1888. She died in the workhouse and her residence 7,  Francis Street.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06170/4763606.pdf
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Friday 17 October 25 10:31 BST (UK)
Ulster Examiner and Northern Star, Friday 06 February 1874:

MALLAGHAN - February 5, at his residence, 34 Marquis Street, Mr Patrick Mallaghan, aged 60 years. [His remains will be removed for interment in Friar's Bush Burying-ground, on Saturday, the 7th instant, at ten o'clock a. m. Friends will please accept this intimation.] - R.I.P.

Added: 1870 Belfast Street Directory listing for Marquis Street:

34 Malaghan, Patk., auctioneer and broker

 
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Friday 17 October 25 11:17 BST (UK)
Amazing finds! You guys are experts. Thank you so very much  :)
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Friday 17 October 25 11:57 BST (UK)
There is a death on Scotland's people could be a possibility
Catherine McGuire other name Mulligan 1899 St Rollox age 57  mothers maiden name Cosgrove

Rosie

Hi Rosie. It looks like you are correct. Here is the death certificate for Catherine. The names match and her mother's maiden name confirmed as Cosgrove. Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Friday 17 October 25 13:27 BST (UK)
There is a death on Scotland's people could be a possibility
Catherine McGuire other name Mulligan 1899 St Rollox age 57  mothers maiden name Cosgrove

Rosie

Hi Rosie. It looks like you are correct. Here is the death certificate for Catherine. The names match and her mother's maiden name confirmed as Cosgrove. Thanks for your help.

Excellent always best to check certificates to confirm you have the right information I see husband Thomas is not down as deceased .Looks like they might have separated ?

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Friday 17 October 25 13:57 BST (UK)
There is a death on Scotland's people could be a possibility
Catherine McGuire other name Mulligan 1899 St Rollox age 57  mothers maiden name Cosgrove

Rosie

Hi Rosie. It looks like you are correct. Here is the death certificate for Catherine. The names match and her mother's maiden name confirmed as Cosgrove. Thanks for your help.

Excellent always best to check certificates to confirm you have the right information I see husband Thomas is not down as deceased .Looks like they might have separated ?

Rosie

That could be a possibility. I see on Catherine's certificate it is showing as her passing away in the Glasgow Poorhouse. I am trying to find a death certificate for Thomas but not luck as of yet.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: rosie17 on Friday 17 October 25 14:43 BST (UK)
Yes I did notice Catherine died in the poor house not sure where you live Mitchell Library Glasgow have records might be worth checking to see if Catherine applied for poor relief .There were several deaths for a Thomas McGuire unfortunately not showing mothers maiden name  ::)

Rosie
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Friday 17 October 25 15:59 BST (UK)
Yes I did notice Catherine died in the poor house not sure where you live Mitchell Library Glasgow have records might be worth checking to see if Catherine applied for poor relief .There were several deaths for a Thomas McGuire unfortunately not showing mothers maiden name  ::)

Rosie

Yes, I'll get to the Mitchell Library soon to see what I can find. I did get the death certificates for the Thomas McGuires without maiden names but none seem to match him. I've also found a census record from 1901 showing (Francis) John McGuire aged 16 which would match up with my great grandfather. There's also a Sarah McGuire too. But no Thomas.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Friday 17 October 25 20:03 BST (UK)

There is this death for a Susan Malaghan in 1888. She died in the workhouse and her residence 7,  Francis Street.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1888/06170/4763606.pdf


I'm not sure how this all fits together, but no. 7 Francis Street is the exact same address where a Thomas Mallaghan died on 10 December 1886, reported in his death registration as a 63 year old dealer by his daughter Catherine Owens:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06272/4796833.pdf

Looking for that daughter's marriage brings back the following one on 27 January 1874 in St. Mary's, Belfast, for a Catherine Mallaghan, daughter of Thomas a dealer, to a James Owens of 34 Marquis Street (a John Mallaghan was a witness):
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1874/11225/8115096.pdf

And we already know that 34 Marquis Street just happens to be the exact same address where Patrick Mallaghan died on 5 February 1874 (replies 30 and 43).

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 17 October 25 20:09 BST (UK)
Gaffy, check out the marriage record for Catherine in the opening post. :)
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Friday 17 October 25 20:20 BST (UK)

Gaffy, check out the marriage record for Catherine in the opening post. :)


Sorry, I don't get it. Who is Thomas, how does he fit in to this?

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Friday 17 October 25 21:34 BST (UK)

Gaffy, check out the marriage record for Catherine in the opening post. :)


Sorry, I don't get it. Who is Thomas, how does he fit in to this?

Thomas is my Great Great grandfather, husband of Catherine.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Friday 17 October 25 22:18 BST (UK)
I think I’m with you, Gaffy. It seems a bit complex, doesn’t it.
Here is the parish record of the marriage of Catherine Mallaghan and James Owens. They have been recorded as James Jones and Catherine Mallon but all the other details are correct.
27th January 1874

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/43/mode/1up

This Catherine has a mother Frances. The witness, John Mallaghan has the address Marquis Street.
This does not answer the puzzle about Susan Mallaghan.
Perhaps the two Catherines were cousins and their two fathers brothers.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: heywood on Friday 17 October 25 22:32 BST (UK)
Not sure if I am posting anything new, but here is the death of John Mallaghan in 1875.
He is 31 yrs, an auctioneer of 5  Chapel Lane (see first post) and the informant is Margaret McKeown of 24 Marquis Street.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020607/7230560.pdf

Margaret McKeown was a witness to both Catherines’ marriages.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Friday 17 October 25 23:14 BST (UK)

Gaffy, check out the marriage record for Catherine in the opening post. :)


Sorry, I don't get it. Who is Thomas, how does he fit in to this?

Thomas is my Great Great grandfather, husband of Catherine.

No, not Thomas Maguire, Thomas Mallaghan as in my previous reply #50:

- who died in 1886 at the same address where Susan Mallaghan died in 1888; and
- whose daughter married someone (James Owens) in 1874 living at the same address where Patrick Mallaghan died in 1874.

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 17 October 25 23:32 BST (UK)
I think Patrick Mallaghan and Thomas Mallaghan were probably brothers. Needs further research to confirm.

This is the death of Patrick, father of Catherine who married Thomas Maguire (from reply #30)

Possible death for Patrick Mallaghan in 1874
Occupation – dealer
Daughter Catherine is informant
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020673/7253940.pdf
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Friday 17 October 25 23:35 BST (UK)

I think I’m with you, Gaffy. It seems a bit complex, doesn’t it.
Here is the parish record of the marriage of Catherine Mallaghan and James Owens. They have been recorded as James Jones and Catherine Mallon but all the other details are correct.
27th January 1874

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/43/mode/1up

This Catherine has a mother Frances. The witness, John Mallaghan has the address Marquis Street.
This does not answer the puzzle about Susan Mallaghan.
Perhaps the two Catherines were cousins and their two fathers brothers.


Great find, I would never thought of looking under Mallon. It must be something like that, if not brothers, maybe cousins. 

OP, the ages and dates indicate that we may already be too far back to find any useful records, this may prove to be a brick wall. I can't see any marriage for Patrick and Susan, nor baptisms for daughters Catherine and Mary.  A couple of observations: (1) I noticed other Belfast Mal(l)aghans/Malligans on the go who were all sons of Henry (Edward, Thomas, Peter, Patrick) and who were all dealers or auctioneers or brokers, I wouldn't be surprised if related back in time; (2) a quick check of older ones with this surname in the 1901 Ireland Census shows a cluster in the Ballymena area and others pointing back to counties Tyrone and Londonderry, so Patrick and ancestors might have been blow ins to Belfast.

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Friday 17 October 25 23:36 BST (UK)

Not sure if I am posting anything new, but here is the death of John Mallaghan in 1875.
He is 31 yrs, an auctioneer of 5  Chapel Lane (see first post) and the informant is Margaret McKeown of 24 Marquis Street.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020607/7230560.pdf

Margaret McKeown was a witness to both Catherines’ marriages.


Another good find, clearly related.

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: mrjmitchell on Saturday 18 October 25 00:02 BST (UK)

I think I’m with you, Gaffy. It seems a bit complex, doesn’t it.
Here is the parish record of the marriage of Catherine Mallaghan and James Owens. They have been recorded as James Jones and Catherine Mallon but all the other details are correct.
27th January 1874

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633206?locale=en#page/43/mode/1up

This Catherine has a mother Frances. The witness, John Mallaghan has the address Marquis Street.
This does not answer the puzzle about Susan Mallaghan.
Perhaps the two Catherines were cousins and their two fathers brothers.


Great find, I would never thought of looking under Mallon. It must be something like that, if not brothers, maybe cousins. 

OP, the ages and dates indicate that we may already be too far back to find any useful records, this may prove to be a brick wall. I can't see any marriage for Patrick and Susan, nor baptisms for daughters Catherine and Mary.  A couple of observations: (1) I noticed other Belfast Mal(l)aghans/Malligans on the go who were all sons of Henry (Edward, Thomas, Peter, Patrick) and who were all dealers or auctioneers or brokers, I wouldn't be surprised if related back in time; (2) a quick check of older ones with this surname in the 1901 Ireland Census shows a cluster in the Ballymena area and others pointing back to counties Tyrone and Londonderry, so Patrick and ancestors might have been blow ins to Belfast.

Thanks so much for all your help. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 18 October 25 00:33 BST (UK)
I can see a transcription of a baptism at St. Mary's Belfast on 20 May 1883 for a Mary Jane "Marran" for parents Robert "Marran" and Mary "Monaghan" of 5 Chapel Lane (there's that address again), the sponsor was Mary McCormick, I wonder if this is a mistranscription of Robert Morrow and Mary Malaghan?  Unfortunately, not available to view on the NLI RC parish records website. Can't see a civil registration either. I was hoping to track Robert and Mary forward, for example, to see them in the 1901 Ireland Census (Mary's birth place would be nice to see).

Anyhow, here are some listings for Chapel Lane in the Belfast Street Directory:

1880: 5 Malaghan, Mrs., green grocer
1884: 5 Monaghan, Susan

Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 18 October 25 01:09 BST (UK)
Henry Mallaghan died 1890 (age 80) Auctioneer, Lodge Road (informant son Peter)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06119/4746956.pdf

Henry was in Belfast working as an auctioneer from at least 1850 when he was in Hercules Street

Henry was married to Mary (nee Campbell) who died 12 Nov 1889.
Sons Peter - civil birth registration 1865
Other sons mentioned in his Will – Cornelius (1860-1892) and Patrick (born abt 1862; married Elizabeth Fisher in 1899).

Working on ages (approx. births), I think this Henry Mallaghan may have been brother to your Patrick Mallaghan (1814-1874) and to Thomas Mallaghan (1822-1886) – all auctioneer / dealers.
Title: Re: Don't know where to start
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 18 October 25 09:39 BST (UK)
That sounds reasonable. I've pretty well exhausted what I can find on the Mal(l)aghans (first time I've looked into this surname), so unless someone else can turn up something, the brothers idea may remain a hypothesis.