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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Libby56 on Tuesday 14 October 25 11:54 BST (UK)
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My 6xgreatGrandmother Elizabeth Keightley bap 1734 married Samuel Orring bap 1730 in Shepshed, Leics. They had 7 children between 1754 and 1773. There's also in the same register Elizabeth Keightley bap 1734 and Richd Potter bap 1732 married in 1757 in Shepshed, Leics. They had 9 children between 1757 and 1776. I've been looking to see if Elizabeth had a sister and maybe the vicar messed up but I believe she's an only child. looking into burials Mr Potter dies in 1793 and Samuel Orring died in 1805. All this happening in the village of Shepshed (or Sheepshead). Can anyone come up with a possible solution. There are several spellings of Orring depending on the vicar on the day, that's fairly normal tho' right? ::)
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My 6xgreatGrandmother Elizabeth Keightley bap 1734 married Samuel Orring bap 1730 in Shepshed, Leics.....
There's also in the same register Elizabeth Keightley bap 1734 and Richd Potter bap 1732 married in 1757 in Shepshed, Leics.
Are you saying that their ages are given on those marriage records?
Debra :)
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if you've seen the Baptisms does that not give their fathers names?
Perhaps 2 brothers.
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1754 marriage a witness was William KEIGHTLEY who may have been a brother.
1757 marriage witnesses were Benjamin BUSBY and George ALLT. It does not say whether Elizabeth was a spinster or widow.
Baptism Shepshed 22 Nov 1734 Elizabeth daur Sam’l and Mary KEIGHTLY.
No other baptism found
Baptism Shepshed 23 Jun 1730 Wiliiam son of Sam’l and Mary KEIGHTLY
Baptism Shepshed 12 May 1732 Elizabeth daur of John ALT Carr-Lam & Eliz his wife. [maybe this girl was married to a KEIGHTLEY then widowed.] Or it was a clerical error by the vicar and when she got married he put her name down wrong. She did not sign her name when she married.
PS - Baptism at Shepshed 12 Aug 1737 George son of John ALT and Mary his wife.
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Their death records
Name Elizabeth Potter
Age 63 years
Birth Date 1736
Death Date 1799
Religion Anglican
Event Type Burial
Event Date 1799
Event Place Shepshed, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Leicestershire,England,Shepshed
Record Number GBPRS/LEICS/BUR/00179096
Affiliate Name Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP4Q-JPWV?lang=en
Name Elizabeth Orringe
Death Date 1789
Religion Anglican
Spouse's Name Saml
Event Type Burial
Event Date 1789
Event Place Shepshed, Leicestershire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Leicestershire,England,Shepshed
Record Number GBPRS/LEICS/BUR/00178640
Affiliate Name Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP4Q-M3M9?lang=en
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The Elizabeth ORRINGE who was buried in 1789 was age 55 so born about 1734.
1734 there was a baptism of a Elizabeth BUSBY. Father Jefffry and the Bemjamin BUSBY may have been born 1728 to a Benjamin BUSBY. All in Shepshead.
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I'd be inclined to say Elizabeth Keightley baptized c. 1734 married Samuel Orringe in 1754 and died in 1789 and Elizabeth Keightley baptized c. 1736 married Richard Potter in 1757 and died in 1799,
solely based on their ages (around 21) at the time of marriage.
EDIT: Hannah Potter baptised 1776 is the last child of Elizabeth Keightley who married Robert Potter, and Elizabeth Orringe babtised 1773 is the last child of Elizabeth Keightley who married Samuel Orringe, which is also consistent with the above.
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Could not the two Elizabeth Keightleys simply be cousins, offspring of two brothers?
I haven't had time to study this but frequently brothers used the same names for daughters, especially if one of the grandmothers was Elizabeth.
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There are no sources attached to Samuel Knightley, Elizabeth's father, just a possible date of birth, 1702, so this is what the OP has to investigate in order to find a possible cousin baptised c. 1736.
EDIT: I have updated their trees on FamilySearch, giving the fact that the two marriages and all their offspring were attached to the same Elizabeth Keightley and it's clear that there were two Elizabeth Keightley, otherwise the system doesn't search for possible matches.
These are the IDs:
Elizabeth Keightley P723-Q4Z. (married to Robert Potter and died in 1799)
Elizabeth Keightley LVLN-X91 (married to Samuel Orringe and died in 1789)
Of course this can be changed, but so far the system has accepted the new arrangement.
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Baptism Shepshed 12 May 1732 Elizabeth daur of John ALT Carr-Lam & Eliz his wife. [maybe this girl was married to a KEIGHTLEY then widowed.] Or it was a clerical error by the vicar and when she got married he put her name down wrong. She did not sign her name when she married.
PS - Baptism at Shepshed 12 Aug 1737 George son of John ALT and Mary his wife.
There is a burial in 1815 for an Elizabeth Alt, age indicates a birth about 1733. Could be her if she never married. Can't find an alternative marriage for an Elizabeth Alt in Shepshed. But if George Allt (the witness) is a relative, wouldn't he notice the name was wrong. Unless he could sign his name but not read.
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Just found a will for a Mary Keightley (single woman of Shepshed) made in 1803, proved in 1806. She mentions her niece Elizabeth Potter, nephews Richard and Joseph Potter, niece Mary Mowbray (wife of John Mowbray) and niece Hannah Hanford (wife of John Hanford).
Where does Auntie Mary fit in?
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There's a burial of a May Keightly in Shepshed on 30 Jan 1803 age 80 (birth abt 1733) - about three weeks after the will was written. Wonder why probate took so long.
Her age would make her a likely sister for the Elizabeth who married Richard Potter and hence aunt to Richard and Elizabeth's children.
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John Mowbray married Mary Potter on 16 Feb 1790 in Shepshed, witnesses Thomas Mowbray and William Lester.
John Hanford married Hannah Potter on 07 Jul 1801 in Shepshed.
Hannah baptised on 01 Jul 1776 d/o Richard and Elizabeth
Haven't checked the other Potter children yet, but assuming they are all Hannah's siblings, we have 5 of the 9 children of Richard and Elizabeth.
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Just looked at will again, also mentioned niece Jane Burn (wife of Thomas Burn), they married on 28 Jan 1800. So that accounts for all R and E's children who outlived Auntie Mary.
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I can't find baptisms for Elizabeth (later Potter) and Mary, but I wonder if they were the children of Joseph Keightly and Mary Ball who married by lic on 19 Oct 1731. he was 28 ( b abt 1703) and she was 23. Joseph made a will in 1739 which was proved 1740, mentions wife Mary and children (but does not name children) . The early death would account for only two children. He makes his wife sole executrix, he names two friends as trustees and mentions the bringing up of his children implying they are quite young
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Great find LizzieL! Given that Elizabeth and Robert Potter's first child was named Joseph it's very possible that she was Joseph's daughter.
According to this tree on FS, Joseph and Mary had a son Joseph born in 1733 but baptised only in 1747
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/LVNT-VWS
And there is this Mary Keightly
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/MX42-S7R
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Baptism at Shepshed 2 Jun 1730 Mary KEIGHTLY parents not given. The PR image does not show this baptism. So where from? BT maybe. Looking on Ancestry it references FHL film no. 595770. Note this baptism would be over a year before Joseph and Mary got married in the Anglican Church I Oct 1731.
Baptism at Shepshed 26 Dec 1747 Joseph son of Joseph KEIGHTLY & Mary his wife Aged 14 yrs. [so born abt 1733.] [The age at death for Mary also has her being born about 1733]
Possible son of Mary
Baptism at Shepshed 19 Oct 1751 John son of Mary KEIGHTLEY. Image of PR.
? Burial at Shepshed 14 Jun 1791 John KEIGHTLEY Aged 38 years.
I can find no sign of a baptism for Elizabeth.
The Will of Joseph mentions his children but not how many they were. Could have been 5 in the time they had.
The only one who we can find a baptism for is son Joseph when he was age 14.
Were they Catholics, Quakers or Jews?
The Will of Joseph indicates he was conventional CofE so was his wife different or did they try being Quaker and later gave it up?
Did they move somewhere after marriage and then come back. Not likely as Joseph described himself as Yeoman and farmers who owned land tend to stay put.
As the name KEIGHTLEY was quite common might Joseph be commonly referred to with some nickname or alias? Possible and then when son Joseph came to be age 14 and maybe wanted to be apprenticed he had to be baptised in his real name. Or was this baptism just so he could prove he had settlement rights in Shepshed.
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One certain thing is that the OP's ancestor was Elizabeth Keightley who married Robert Potter, because John Mowbray who married her daughter Mary Potter had a sister, Mary Mowbray, who married George James Ward in 1803 in Shepshed (OP has posted about the Ward branch of her family), unless one of the descendants of Elizabeth Orringe (nee Keightley) has married a cousin ;D
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Did they move somewhere after marriage and then come back. Not likely as Joseph described himself as Yeoman and farmers who owned land tend to stay put.
Joseph was a yeomen when he died, but he might have moved after marriage and come back when he inherited the family farm, then stayed put from that point. Joseph would be born abt 1703 from age on marriage licence but can't find his baptism.