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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: kevinf2349 on Monday 13 October 25 19:28 BST (UK)
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Hello,
This is my first dabble into Australian records and I am pretty much getting overwhelmed and at a loss. I am hoping someone can help me out.
Joseph Henry GREENLAND died on board a ship sailing from Australia to England (I believe the destination was back to his home country). He died on 14th July 1971.
I have no idea where he sailed from (just that it was from Australia) nor what the name of the ship was. I do know he was buried at sea though.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Hi Kevin, firstly does Joseph Greenland feature in your family history. Secondly where does the date of death info come--what record.
SS
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Believe the poster has quite a comprehensive tree on Anc*
SS
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Softly Softly,
I am not sure why I have to justify my interest in Mr Greenland, however, he was the great grandfather of my son and daughter.
The information comes by way of both research by a Greenland family member and the attached.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Might be him inward to Australia
Greenland, Joseph born 1899 - departed per RHMS ELLINIS 14 May 1970 Southampton to Melbourne
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/NameSearch.aspx
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Might be him inward to Australia
Greenland, Joseph born 1899 - departed per RHMS ELLINIS 14 May 1970 Southampton to Melbourne
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/NameSearch.aspx
Yes, that certainly looks like him.
Thank you
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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There are some advertisements for the Ellinis in 1970 including this one leaving Sydney to various ports arriving eventually in Southampton. A world cruise. Not that he was necessarily on this voyage.
12 September 1970,
Publication "The Age" (Melbourne)
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For interest, this is the arrival of the Ellinis in June 1970
11 June 1970,
Publication: "The Age"
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Thank you,
Interesting but a year too early. I know from johnwarrn that he arrived in Australia aboard the Ellinis, but I don't know the name of the ship he was on when he passed away in 1971, presumably heading back to Blighty for a visit.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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An advertisement for the cruise he left on:
Tuesday, Mar. 31, 1970
Publication: The Times (London)
"Run away to Sea this Spring
Make a break and choose the date for that voyage of a lifetime - in a Chandis Lines one-class fully air-conditioned liner.
Special off-peak fares take you to Sydney from a mere £204 - Round the World from around £343"
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This is the address he gives as his destination
https://www.realestate.com.au/property/25-frome-ave-frankston-vic-3199/
Sue
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He said he was returning to Australia "to live with widowed daughter", presumably at the address in Sue's post. Last in Australia in 1966. You can see the 1966 passenger listing (arrived 5 March 1966 on the Fairsky) in the National Archives too.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au
(search under "passenger arrivals")
Modified to add :
The widowed daughter is Marjorie HALL who is at 25 Frome Ave in various electoral rolls. She died in June 2013. Death and funeral notices on 3 June 2013 in "The Age".
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This is the address he gives as his destination
https://www.realestate.com.au/property/25-frome-ave-frankston-vic-3199/
Sue
Thank you. I saw the address on his "landing card", but never thought there would be a picture.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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He said he was returning to Australia "to live with widowed daughter", presumably at the address in Sue's post. Last in Australia in 1966. You can see the 1966 passenger listing (arrived 5 March 1966 on the Fairsky) in the National Archives too.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au
(search under "passenger arrivals")
Modified to add :
The widowed daughter is Marjorie HALL who is at 25 Frome Ave in various electoral rolls. She died in June 2013. Death and funeral notices on 3 June 2013 in "The Age".
I believe he landed on 08 Jun 1970 on the ELLINIS. It says he was last in Australia in 1966 according to his immigration card thingy.
I assume he was heading back to England for a visit in 1971 (July 14th) when he died but I can't find out what ship that was on.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Greenland is not a very common name in Australia.
I don't know whether you are aware that another of Joseph and Eliza's children was also in Victoria.
Joseph Henry jnr. He was married to Ellen MILNE and they were in the suburb of Doveton from at least 1967 according to the electoral rolls.
Joseph died in 1990
GREENLAND Joseph Henry
Mother Eliza JEAVONS
Father Joseph Henry
Born Darlington
Wife at death Ellen MILNE
aged 64 Years
22901/1990
Ellen died in 2007 according to Ryerson Index.
https://ryersonindex.org/search.php
I wonder whether their offspring (if any) would have information to help you.
Sue
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I have just spotted the immigration indexing for Joseph Henry jnr on the National Arvhives search.
Their children are named and birth dates given. I have removed them here.
I can PM them if needed.
GREENLAND Joseph Henry born 16 August 1925; Ellen (nee Milne) born 2 March 1924; (child 1) (child 2) (child 3) (child 4) (child 5) travelled per CANBERRA departing UK on 20 November 1963 under the Assisted Passage Migration Scheme
Access status: Not yet examinedLocation: Canberra
1963 - 196
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SessionTimeout.aspx
Sue
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Might be him inward to Australia
Greenland, Joseph born 1899 - departed per RHMS ELLINIS 14 May 1970 Southampton to Melbourne
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/NameSearch.aspx
FindMyPast has a record (Australian) of a Joseph Henry Greenland, born 23 Nov 1899, sailing for Melbourne from Southampton, arriving Mar 1966, with the intention of taking up permanent residence - assisted passage..
I
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Hi again,
The Joseph Henry in Victoria with his family I believe is his son (Born 16 Aug 1925 in Darlington).
I know JH senior went to Australia in 1966 with the intention of setting up residence there, but he must have returned to England as he re-entered Australia (on the ELLINIS) in 1970. His intention in 1970 was to reside with his widowed daughter (Marjorie HALL). Her husband (Colin HALL) died sometime between 1964 (when he and Marjorie emigrated) and, presumably 1970 when she is listed as a widow.
I don't know why he was back on board a ship returning, to,presumably England in July of 1971 but it was on that ship that he suddenly died. I have no idea of the name of the ship. The name of the ship is really what I am trying to discover.
Thank you for all the info. Very useful.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Might be him inward to Australia
Greenland, Joseph born 1899 - departed per RHMS ELLINIS 14 May 1970 Southampton to Melbourne
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/NameSearch.aspx
FindMyPast has a record (Australian) of a Joseph Henry Greenland, born 23 Nov 1899, sailing for Melbourne from Southampton, arriving Mar 1966, with the intention of taking up permanent residence - assisted passage..
Puzzled with this response. I'm pretty certain when I posted I was following Maddy52's at #9 - time 22.47. There was nothing after it. But timelines don't lie. So, with apologies for what might be another senior moment, pl. ignore my contribution!!
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Might be him inward to Australia
Greenland, Joseph born 1899 - departed per RHMS ELLINIS 14 May 1970 Southampton to Melbourne
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/NameSearch.aspx
FindMyPast has a record (Australian) of a Joseph Henry Greenland, born 23 Nov 1899, sailing for Melbourne from Southampton, arriving Mar 1966, with the intention of taking up permanent residence - assisted passage..
Puzzled with this response. I'm pretty certain when I posted I was following Maddy52's at #9 - time 22.47. There was nothing after it. But timelines don't lie. So, with apologies for what might be another senior moment, pl. ignore my contribution!!
Timelines may not lie, but they can be deceiving. I believe Joseph Henry GREENLAND snr did indeed sail to Australia in 1966 with the intent to reside in Australia (according to the immigration record he filled out). However, for whatever reason he must have gone back to Blighty at some point returning to Australia (to live with his widowed daughter, Marjorie HALL (again according to his immigration card). Then he was on his way back to England when he died onboard a ship and was buried at sea.
To further compound the issue Joseph Henry GREENLAND jnr (his son) emigrated to Australia too! I just haven't investigated when he and his wife (Ellen nee MILNE) did so. I know Colin and Marjorie HALL landed in Australia in 1964.
I hope that clears things up a little.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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You have not mentioned any record of the man's death.
Where was it registered? Wouldn't the ship's name be shown?
What about his estate. Will, Probate application?
There is not a record of probate being applied for in Australia, so his affairs were dealt with in UK after death.
Other than that, my suggestion in Reply #14. his grandchildren might have knowledge.
Sue
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You have not mentioned any record of the man's death.
Where was it registered? Wouldn't the ship's name be shown?
What about his estate. Will, Probate application?
There is not a record of probate being applied for in Australia, so his affairs were dealt with in UK after death.
Other than that, my suggestion in Reply #14. his grandchildren might have knowledge.
Sue
Hi Sue
My guess is that, as he died at sea, the death is registered in the country where the ship is registered, but I could be wrong on that. The problem is that I don't know the ship's name. I am going to look for ship arrivals in Southampton around the same date and see if that get me anywhere. Given it was in the 1970's I suspect that there weren't too many voyages in those days as plane travel was so much faster.
The GRO has no death certificate for him. I see no probate either so he could have died intestate.
I am really only in contact with the English side of the tree, and even those have no idea what happened. The one surviving child of his that I suspect could help has advanced dementia so that avenue is closed off too, sadly.
Thank you for helping.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
P.S. My children are direct line great grands to Joseph
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Folks,
I 'think' the ship in question was the S.S. Australis which departed 13th July 1971 bound for Southampton. As he died on the 14th it would seem the most likely vessel. He was one day into a eighteen day trip. He previously stated he was buried at sea (date unknown).
Thank you for all the pointers.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Newspapers say that the Australis arrived Port Melbourne from Southampton on 19 July 1971 around 7pm, and sailed for Southampton and Rotterdam at around 1am 20 July 1971.
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On 14 Jul 1971 Joseph boarded the Fairsky in Melbourne:
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=32702427&T=P&S=2313
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Well Done! ;D
And he was not departing for a visit to home, but a permanent return.
Sue
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On 14 Jul 1971 Joseph boarded the Fairsky in Melbourne:
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/NAAMedia/ShowImage.aspx?B=32702427&T=P&S=2313
That is awesome. A little strange that he died on that day too, but ancestry is full of strange incidents!
Thank you so much for helping.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Well Done! ;D
And he was not departing for a visit to home, but a permanent return.
Sue
Sue,
Seems like he couldn't make his mind up as to where he wanted to be!
Thank you for your help. I shall mark the thread as closed.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
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Well found TreeSpirit! :D
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Seems like he couldn't make his mind up as to where he wanted to be!
Thank you for your help. I shall mark the thread as closed.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
Oher considerations might be that there were changes in family circumstances for Marjorie Hall or that his health was failing and he wished to spend his last while in his native home.
Anyhow, a good outcome to your query thanks in most part to Tree Spirit ;D
Sue
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Seems like he couldn't make his mind up as to where he wanted to be!
Thank you for your help. I shall mark the thread as closed.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
Sue,
Indeed. That was awesome. My daughter will be pleased as the only person who was researching her maternal side now is unable to continue due to failing health.
I have requested that the thread be closed as solved.
Thank you everyone who contributed.
Kindest regards
Kevin Ferguson
Oher considerations might be that there were changes in family circumstances for Marjorie Hall or that his health was failing and he wished to spend his last while in his native home.
Anyhow, a good outcome to your query thanks in most part to Tree Spirit ;D
Sue
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His death was registered in Sydney, NSW.
A copy of his death certificate which you can order online will give further information.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/deaths
GREENLAND Joseph Henry d. 14 July 1971 SYDNEY
Father: George
Mother: Margaret Linsley
4060/1971
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His death was registered in Sydney, NSW.
A copy of his death certificate which you can order online will give further information.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/deaths
GREENLAND Joseph Henry d. 14 July 1971 SYDNEY
Father: George
Mother: Margaret Linsley
4060/1971
Merlin.
Awesome. I now have the death certificate. Thank you so much.
Kindest regards
Kevin