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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: billnkempsey on Sunday 12 October 25 23:13 BST (UK)
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From other posts, it seems that the street names of St Fagans have changed from time to time. Which at least explains my lack of progress on this.
In the 1851 census there are 5 households related to my Harding ancestors:
Abraham Harding in Mill Cottage (my 4xg grandfather, my mother's direct paternal ancestor)
Joseph Harding in Mill House (his son and 9th child)
Ann Harding in 'Hill St nr 3' (widow of his son and 3rd child, also Abraham)
Rachel Edmunds in 'Church Rd nr 1' (nee Rachel Harding his daughter and 7th child)
Jacob Harding in 'Church Rd nr 2' (his son and 6th child)
For the record, Abraham's fifth child, John Harding, came to Australia in 1849, and thence down to me!
Mill Cottage and Mill House are clear from the 1840 tithe map (being in plot 84).
Jacob is located in plot 164, on that map, and so my guess is that what is now Greenwood Lane used to be Church Road? The other mystery is the identity of Hill Street? (The only other hint that might be useful is that the next listed household in the census after 'Hill St nr3' is 'Rose Cottage'.
So the questions, for lookup on an old map??, are:
1) Did Greenwood Lane used to be Church Street? (If not, where is Church St??)
2) Where is, or was, Hill Street and/or Rose Cottage?
Many thanks, in advance, for any help, and even for just reading this far.
Cheers
Bill
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Rose Cottage is marked on this 1874/1885 6 inch map.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102342616#zoom=7.2&lat=3814&lon=14659&layers=BT
This seems to be on the street now called Castle Hill, so perhaps that was originally Hill Street. An address search for Castle Hill, St Fagan's at FindMyPast only has hits for 1921 and 1939, but I wouldn't place too much weight on this.
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That is really helpful. Looks like Rose Cottage and Hill St #1-3 are the four shown on that street.
This also confirms the Mill House and Mill Cottage.
We also don't have any buildings on the tithe plot 164, so maybe that isn't Church St, or possibly those are actually in the portion called Greenwood on this map?? Will keep looking.
Many thanks for taking the time to find this map.
Cheers
Bill
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1 March 1902: Wellington Journal
LAUNDRYMAID Wanted, for gentleman's Cottage Laundry. Also Girl,. housework; assist in laundry.—Mrs. Broome, Cardiff. Rose Cottage, St. Fagans
In 1917 a report of the death of Annie Elizabeth Broome, of Rose Cottage, St Fagans, widow of John Broome.
In the 1901 census at 5 Station Hill
Joseph Broome (48) labourer, Anne Broome (50) laundress and two children.
On modern maps no. 5 Castle Hill is 'Laundry Cottage' which, on street view, is clearly an old building as are the cottages next to it.
So Hill Street > Station Hill > Castle Hill?
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And if my gardening skills are up to it (probably aren't) it looks like Laundry Cottage still has Roses. I think we have (Castle) Hill Street and the locations of house #3 next to Rose (Laundry) Cottage.
Quick and efficient work. Again many thanks.
What is spooky is that the other side of mum's family were Brooms, her grandfather was John Broom and his sister Annie Broom! But I suppose those names were very common then, but still...
(And our Brooms came from Suffolk and ended up in Kotupna in Victoria, Australia.)
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Wondered if you'd picked this up from Welshnewspapers (see foot col 1 and 2)?
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3088623/3088626/18/abraham%2BOR%2Bharding?from=search
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Foot col 3.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4345464/4345467/22/abraham%2BOR%2Bharding?from=search
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Someone in the family had found the article about the drowning tragedy, but nobody else knew where it came from.
The pig story is a lighter one to balance things slightly.
And I never realised we had such a heinous criminal in the family. :D But I suppose, in another situation, an unattended cart and horses could have ended much more awfully.
Thanks for the colour we can add to the tree.
Bill
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Talking of pigs -
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4403807/4403810/68/harding%2BAND%2Bfagans?from=search
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Clearly a family that should be avoided. ;D
Had a quick search for the other side of the family and found that Herbert Mordecai was charged with 'depasturing scabby sheep' in St Mary Hill. Sounds nasty, whatever it is.
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Glad you are taking the opportunity to widen the search - surprising what you can find in newspapers.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3384203/3384208/13/harding%2BAND%2Bfagans?from=search
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3095899/3095907/67/harding%2BAND%2Bfagans?from=search
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3098133/3098140/50/harding%2BAND%2Bfagans?from=search
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From this discussion, it is reasonably clear that the Rose Cottage of relevance to me is the one on the map above, on the road parallel to the river heading up the hill to the castle and church, the road now called Castle Hill.
However, I did a google search for 'Rose Cottage St Fagans' and discovered that there is a grade II listed building in St Fagans called "Rose Cottage"! That one is north of the castle and church, on Crofft-y-Genau Road! Sadly, nobody seems to have written a history of that listed cottage.
So, for later searchers looking for Rose Cottage in St Fagans, be careful about which Rose Cottage you are after.
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I suspect that Rose Cottage is a relatively recent name for that building. This is a link to the large scale OS map from 1969, where the cottage is indeed labelled as Rose Cottage, near the top of the view.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.6&lat=51.49085&lon=-3.27148&layers=258&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
Below is the 1911 enumerator record starting at Clive Cottages, near the bottom of the view. The records track to the north. Bear in mind that we know that Rose Cottage is there today, but some of the named houses on this map may well have been built after 1911 e.g. La Chaumiere and Earlswood.
The enumeration sequence is:
Clive Cottages
unnamed
Park View (4 households)
The Cottage
Quarry Cottage (3 households)
Tynant
unnamed
Gilfach Cottage
unnamed
The Rock
Penhefyd Farm
Pendown Cottage
unnamed
New House Farm
Peterstone Road
Pentrobane Farm [quite far to the north]
Rose Cottage does not appear. In the area where it would be expected (Tynant/Gilfach/The Rock) there are two households who do not have a named house, their address is simply St Fagan's Nr Cardiff. Is one of these today's Rose Cottage?