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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: SearchingforThomas on Wednesday 01 October 25 03:18 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I’ve hit a long-standing brick wall and would really appreciate fresh eyes.
My Goal is to confirm the parents of my dad’s grandfather Thomas McGregor, born in Greenock about 1886, so I can push the McGregor line back.
What I know so far...
Thomas McGregor was born ~1886, Greenock, Scotland (age from later records). Thomas arrived
sometime 1886–1915 (can’t find an immigration record). Thomas enlisted 1915 at Rockhampton, Queensland with the 26th Battalion, AIF. The next of kin on AIF file: John McGregor (described as brother). Thomas died Oct 1917, World War I. The year before he married Bertha Ellen Lenton, and they had a son, born in England Oct 17.
I’ve already tried...
Birth searches: ScotlandsPeople for Thomas around 1883–1889 (including variant spellings: Mc/Mac/M’Gregor; McGrigor, etc.) in Greenock East/West/Middle and wider Renfrew/Lanark. Birth searches on Ancestry.com.au
Census: Looked for households with brothers Thomas and John of the right ages; no convincing match.
Military (possible brother John): Checked WWI Gordon Highlanders and Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders for Johns from Greenock; also reviewed Greenock casualty lists to see if any had a brother Thomas—no luck.
Leads explored: One John had Mrs McPhail named as aunt/next of kin. I’ve looked for McPhail ↔ McGregor links in Greenock without a proven connection yet.
DNA: My dad has taken a Y-DNA test (happy to share haplogroup / match levels if that helps).
I would really appreciate any ideas on alternate spellings/registrations or nearby districts I should target for Thomas’s birth. Any suggestions for records specific to Greenock/Renfrewshire (e.g., parish registers, valuation rolls, local newspapers/“intimations”) that might show a Thomas & John as brothers with parents named.
Tips for tracking pre-1915 immigration to Queensland (Rockhampton/Brisbane arrivals) for a Thomas McGregor who later enlisted at Rockhampton.
Any insight into a McPhail connection to McGregors in Greenock (late 1800s–WWI).
If anyone has access to local directories or school rolls around Greenock that might list McGregor children with a parent/guardian, I’d love a lookup.
I am most grateful for any guidance, lookups, or fresh angles anyone can offer.
I’m grateful for your time!
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Hi there and welcome to Rootschat!
Did he marry in Queensland? If so can you provide all the information from his marriage certificate?
I would expect a marriage in Queensland to show his parents' names.
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There is a tree on Family search site that might help ??? ???
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/LDMX-5N5
Sorry if this your tree ;D
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Updated NOK on WW 1 record says
Aunt - Mrs LENTON, 18 Falcom Grove, Battersea.
Lots of crossings out and address is changed to
50 Northcote Estate, Papanui, Christchurch, NZ.
His memorial scroll and plaque were sent to that address, which was also where his widow resided.
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Welcome.
Does your Dad’s yDNA have any close matches?
If he has not taken an Ancestry DNA test then I suggest that he does so, if he has any First Cousins (or their children) who share the same Grandfather then having them take an Ancestry DNA test will help.
If you are unsure of using DNA then this thread may help.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863488.0
Good luck.
EDIT.
Just seen Ancestry DNA tests @ Ł39 + postage, which is excellent value.
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Tom McGregor married in 1917 Wandsworth to Bertha Ellen Lenton.
You need to see the marriage certificate for his father’s name and occupation.
Do You have that record?
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Commonwealth War Graves entry here:
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1599384/thomas-mcgregor/
It gives his father as Thomas McGregor.
Nell
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Hi
I'm with the Familysearch tree.
His enlistment papers say he is 27 and 11m9onths in April 1915 so birth May 1887.
School records for Woolmore St Scholl Poplar 20.1.1891
Thomas Mcgregor born 2.5.1887 s of thomas 19 Grove Villa former school Glengall Road.
It fits for the 1891 entry Grove Villsa
Thomas 39 blacksmith Scotland
Kate 34 Scotland
James 12
John 10 Scotland
Maggie 7 Poplar
Thomas 3
Kate 1
Kate's GRO says mother McDougall.
Ciderdrinker
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Looking at the tree on Familysearch, Thomas’s parents are shown as Thomas McGregor and Catherine McDougal. Scotlandspeople has a marriage for that couple in Govan, Glasgow in 1878. It also has the birth of a son John 9th July 1880 to them in Govan at Kensington Terrace, Paisley Rd Govan, Glasgow. Father Thomas was a journeyman mason. Don’t see a birth in Scotland for Thomas junior c 1886. I think that's because he was born in London.
1991 census for Grove Villas, Poplar, London lists Thomas 39, Kate 34, James 12, John 10, Maggie 7, Thomas 3 & Kate 1. Last 3 all born London, the others in Scotland.
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Researching genealogy one can have all the paper trails that exist.
However only if it is validated by DNA can one take the lineage as being correct.
From Grandfather to Grandson there may not even be a paper trail.
I know that for a 100% true fact.
I have no documentary trail to my Grandfather but DNA has given me links to him via my Half Sister.
DNA works.
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have you looked on find my past
http://www.findmypast.co.uk
marriage of Thomas and Bertha
also record of Thomas death and copy of his signing up 26th Australian Infantry Battalion service no. 126
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marriage of Thomas and Bertha
Thomas died Oct 1917, World War I. The year before he married Bertha Ellen Lenton....
FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriage Apr-Jun 1917
Lenton Bertha E McGregor Wandsworth 1d 1131
McGregor Thomas Lenton Wandsworth 1d 1131
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I'm with the Familysearch tree.
His enlistment papers say he is 27 and 11m9onths in April 1915 so birth May 1887.
School records for Woolmore St Scholl Poplar 20.1.1891
Thomas Mcgregor born 2.5.1887 s of thomas 19 Grove Villa former school Glengall Road.
It fits for the 1891 entry Grove Villsa
Thomas 39 blacksmith Scotland
Kate 34 Scotland
James 12
John 10 Scotland
Maggie 7 Poplar
Thomas 3
Kate 1
Kate's GRO says mother McDougall.
Looking at the tree on Familysearch, Thomas’s parents are shown as Thomas McGregor and Catherine McDougal. Scotlandspeople has a marriage for that couple in Govan, Glasgow in 1878. It also has the birth of a son John 9th July 1880 to them in Govan at Kensington Terrace, Paisley Rd Govan, Glasgow. Father Thomas was a journeyman mason. Don’t see a birth in Scotland for Thomas junior c 1886. I think that's because he was born in London.
1991 census for Grove Villas, Poplar, London lists Thomas 39, Kate 34, James 12, John 10, Maggie 7, Thomas 3 & Kate 1. Last 3 all born London, the others in Scotland.
I am sorry, but I very much doubt the accuracy of the Familysearch Tree quoted above.
The family appear to have NO connection at all with Greenock or Renfrewshire.
The son from that family, Thomas McGrgeor born 1887 in Cubitt Town was in the Mercantile Marine. See attached record.
It is really important to see the marriage record for Thomas and Bertha to get as much correct information as possible. See my reply #5.
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Hi there and welcome to Rootschat!
Did he marry in Queensland? If so can you provide all the information from his marriage certificate?
I would expect a marriage in Queensland to show his parents' names.
Hi Jorose, Thomas was married in England. To Bertha Lenton in 1916.
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There is a tree on Family search site that might help ??? ???
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/LDMX-5N5
Sorry if this your tree ;D
Dear GC1, Thanks for your input. I have checked the family tree out and while there are some elements in the tree that correlate to my Ancestry.com family tree. I was not the author of the tree and certainly have not ever come across any information for a James McGregor and Catherine Mc Dougall in previous searches. I will certainly take a further look at it and see if I can validate the information. Thank you
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Updated NOK on WW 1 record says
Aunt - Mrs LENTON, 18 Falcom Grove, Battersea.
Lots of crossings out and address is changed to
50 Northcote Estate, Papanui, Christchurch, NZ.
His memorial scroll and plaque were sent to that address, which was also where his widow resided.
Hi Neal1961 Thank you for pointing out Thomas's War records. Yes, there is a lot of crossing out. The Papanui address is the address of my great grandmother (Thomas wife Bertha) once she immigrated to NZ with my grandfather (also Thomas).
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Tom McGregor married in 1917 Wandsworth to Bertha Ellen Lenton.
You need to see the marriage certificate for his father’s name and occupation.
Do You have that record?
Since you haven’t answered this question, we assume you need to acquire the marriage record for the information it should provide about his father.
Once you have it, it might be possible to help with additional information.
Some general thoughts and observances:-
• Trying to find his brother John McGregor through the army will be tough. It is such a common name in Scotland, and John may have moved from one regiment to another, which was fairly typical. The majority of British WW1 records were destroyed in WW2 bombing.
• From Thomas McGregor’s WW1 military papers we know that he was a labourer, and probably had limited ability to read or write. This is worth remembering when looking for passenger lists or census records. His family background would probably be the same.
• I would not take the age on Thomas’ military papers as necessarily accurate. In my experience, ages were often altered. Younger men put their age up, and older men put their age down in order to meet criteria. The photo of Thomas in his WW1 uniform (attached to the public tree) could quite easily be a man in his 30s, not his 20s.
• His WW1 papers also include several enquiries about his wellbeing from Mrs. A. M Sheridan, and her daughter. It is obvious they were dear friends, but I could not see a family connection. James Sheridan (1869 -1925) married Annie May Day (1869-1958) in 1892 in QLD. James Sheridan was a labourer and appears to have worked away from home for the railway, while his wife and 2 children were based in Rockhampton from about 1912-1922. It looks as if Thomas McGregor was a close friend of the Sheridan family and possibly a co-worker of James on the railway. The construction of the railway in central Queensland at this time employed a large number of labourers over many years.
• As you are aware, McGregor is a very common name in Scotland. However it is possible that your Thomas was born with a different surname, either illegitimate or his mother remarried and the surname changed. McGregor may not necessarily have been the name that he came to Australia under.