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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 07:27 BST (UK)

Title: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 07:27 BST (UK)
My GGGG grandfather Thomas Deaves was born 2nd May 1797, as normal birth certs didn’t come in until much later , can anyone give me instructions to finding out his birth location?

I’m assuming Liverpool ( even tho you should never assume)

He got married in St Chads Shrewsbury in 1817 ( cordwainer occ) I also have a business entry from 1821 saying he’s a cordwainer in Liverpool.

By 1828 he appears to have moved to tower St Shrewsbury as a cordwainer

How do I sus out his birth location?
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 24 September 25 07:39 BST (UK)
You need to find his baptism, if it exists.
Also try to find him on early censuses. 1841 will only say whether he was born in county; 1851 etc should name his birthplace.
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 24 September 25 08:04 BST (UK)
1861 Census Shrewsbury

Thomas Deaves 64 Shoemaker born Liverpool  Blind 20 years
Sarah 62
Sarah 28
George 26
Edwin  17 (grandson)
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 08:09 BST (UK)
Wow thank you

Blind 20 years? I’m assuming that relates to Thomas Deaves vision?

How sad thank you , I’m off to find his grave today.

His death certificate says chronic bronchitis and exhaustion , occupational bronchitis I bet
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 24 September 25 08:20 BST (UK)
1841 Census  Castle Gates Shrewsbury   (on ancestry as Draves)

Thomas Deaves 40  N (not born in County) shoemaker
Sarah 40                 Yes
Sarah 11
George 8
Hannah 3
-------------------
Sarah was born 19 January 1829 bap 12 April 1829 of Castle Foregate, at St Mary's
Hannah was born 2 June 1838 bap. 1 August 1838 also at St Mary's
Edwin  Born 9 November 1835 bap. 30 November 1835  Buried 14 December 1835

Haven't found George or the Grand son Edwin yet.
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 08:29 BST (UK)
I had Edwin as the son of Thomas Deaves’ son Robert Deaves and wife gwenny Pugh)

Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 24 September 25 08:50 BST (UK)
The 1835 Edwin is the son of Thomas and Sarah see baptism record for St Mary's (ancestry)

The grandson Edwin born circa 1843 perhaps is the one you are referring to.
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 08:59 BST (UK)
I was getting my Edwin’s mixed up , will revisit the tree later when I get back , these are the children of Thomas and Sarah that I had , will revisit dobs later
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 24 September 25 09:20 BST (UK)
I think he could be the illegitimate son of one of the daughters Sarah or Margaret

Possibly him living with Sarah married name Hood in 1901 as Edward.
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 24 September 25 09:45 BST (UK)
Lancashire Parish Clerks has two baptisms for children of DEAVES, cordwainer, in Liverpool during that period but not Thomas.

St Peter:
Mary Ann dau of Thomas & Sarah, b 10 Feb, bp 26 Oct 1794
cordwainer, Pitt Street

St Nicholas:
Richard Frederick son of Thomas & Sarah, b 18 Aug, bp 7 Sep 1795
cordwainer, Paradise Street

 - and on the same day
John son of John and Elizabeth, b 27 May, bp 7 Sep 1795
cabinet maker, Blundell Street
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 24 September 25 09:53 BST (UK)
Thomas and Sarah Deaves  nee Cartwright

Robert bap. 25 January 1818 St Mary's Shrewsbury - married Gwinney Pugh 1843
Children
Robert Edward 1843 (Deves) on GRO Index mother's maiden name Pugh reg. West Derby
George William H  Deaves 1847  reg. Derby
Jane Deaves 1849 reg. Chesterfield

From the tombstone we know Thomas had a daughter Margaret married Samuel Gough 15 September 1850 at St Chad.
She was bap. 20 February 1825 St Elkmond Shrewsbury

 
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 September 25 11:22 BST (UK)
FreeREG;

Thomas DAVIES** bapt St Peter, Liverpool 21 May 1797, Birth 2 May 1797**
Parents THOMAS/SARAH
Abode Paradise St
Father a Cordwainer

Trish :)



Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: PrawnCocktail on Wednesday 24 September 25 11:33 BST (UK)
Went and found the Richard Frederick baptism in the St Nicholas BTs. Had to do it manually, as the entry isn't indexed.

Born 18 Aug 1795, bap Sep [illegible] Richard Frederick s Thomas Davies of Paradise Street and Sarah nee Oddie his wife, married Christ Church, London
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 September 25 11:45 BST (UK)
Yes just saw that on FreeREG and havee been looking for a Lancs Marriage for ages ::)
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 11:51 BST (UK)
Thanks for all the help so far , just arrived in Shrewsbury, have found Thomas gravestone , can’t locate Sarah’s tho at Ch chads , very worn stones , I have the grave location from archives but no one at st chads has a map to give me a starter for ten on where to look
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 September 25 12:11 BST (UK)
Possible Burial 18 Jan 1829 for a Thomas Davies age 64, abode Crow St, Cordwainer
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 September 25 12:18 BST (UK)
Name Sarah Oddy
Event Date 28 Jul. 1790
Parish Southwark, Christchurch
Spouse's Name   Thomas Deaves
Spouse's Parish   Southwark, Christchurch
Event Type Marriage bond and allegation

Thomas a Widower
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 14:46 BST (UK)
Name Sarah Oddy
Event Date 28 Jul. 1790
Parish Southwark, Christchurch
Spouse's Name   Thomas Deaves
Spouse's Parish   Southwark, Christchurch
Event Type Marriage bond and allegation

Thomas a Widower


Yes I believe Thomas was first married to Sarah Green

The Thomas deaves and Mary that features above in the attached pic isn’t confirmed , I just entered it with the intention of researching it but never got round to it
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 15:01 BST (UK)
FreeREG;

Thomas DAVIES** bapt St Peter, Liverpool 21 May 1797, Birth 2 May 1797**
Parents THOMAS/SARAH
Abode Paradise St
Father a Cordwainer

Trish :)


Thank you for taking the time to do this
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Wednesday 24 September 25 15:10 BST (UK)
I wonder how much the gravestone cost for Thomas, must have cost a fair few bob back in those days.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/233073605/thomas-deaves

He was buried in Longden Cemetery on the outskirts of Shrewsbury , his wife Sarah was buried in St Chad’s in the centre of Shrewsbury , I’ve requested plot details but archives don’t have it , they do say that George and Margaret that feature on the gravestone are NOT buried there and they have no record for them being buried in Shrewsbury. I wonder where they are.

And why Sarah and Thomas weren’t buried at the same place.

Sarah appears to have no gravestone ( or it was poor quality and has crumbled )

Would love to know what was in Thomas Deaves will
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 24 September 25 23:59 BST (UK)
In case you don't have it already.

Shrewsbury Chronicle dated 20 September 1850
Marriages

15th instant Mr. Samuel Gough of Whittington, to Margaret Deaves, of this town.

ADDED
1851 Samuel and Margaret Gough are with family- Catherine Cartwright

1861 Samuel and Margaret are at 12 Chester Street, Shrewsbury

Margaret dies 1864
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: amondg on Thursday 25 September 25 01:09 BST (UK)
You can add James Deaves to the list of children of Thomas and Sarah.

James  Deaves Clothier of Shrewsbury first married Emma Wyatt 1845, they had Eliza 1845,

Ann 1848,  Priscilla 1849, Emma 1851 and Lucy 1853.

Emma his wife dies 1865 and is buried Longden Road Cemetery.
--------------
He marries 2nd. Mary Croft spinster age 45, he was age 44 widower. at Holy Trinity 29 January 1867
His father Thomas Deaves - ShoeMaker**
Her father John Croft - Miner

Ref: Image on FindMyPast

Notes when daughter Emma married 1869 to Samuel Price of Coleham she is described as his third daughter, she is actually the 4th daughter.

ADDED The first daughter Eliza born 12 May 1845 died 1849 age 3. So that's why the order of the daughters changed.
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: Antony1977 on Thursday 25 September 25 05:51 BST (UK)
Thank you all very much
Title: Re: How to find birth location from 1797
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 27 September 25 10:26 BST (UK)
FreeREG;

Thomas DAVIES** bapt St Peter, Liverpool 21 May 1797, Birth 2 May 1797**
Parents THOMAS/SARAH
Abode Paradise St
Father a Cordwainer

Trish :)


Thank you for taking the time to do this


Sorry for late reply but I am happy I could help :)