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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Zaphod99 on Tuesday 23 September 25 12:48 BST (UK)
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Shield and accompanying memorial text attached.
I can't find it in my (ancient) Debrett's. I don't know if the circular object in the centre is part of the shield or just a fixing.
Zaph
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Found with respect to a different person of the same name
Gules three lions’ gambs erased argent
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I think Gamb(e)s means legs?
The arms of the Isle of Man are emblazoned in French.
Three legs conjoined in the fesse points in armour proper, garnished and spurred or--Insignia of the ISLE OF MAN.
[The motto belonging to these insignia is QUOCUNQUE JECERIS STABIT.]
LE ROY DE MAN de goules a treys gambes armes o tutte le quisses et chekun cornere seyt un pee
Quoting from Parker's:
Gambe, or Jambe: the leg of a beast. If couped or erased at the middle joint it is not a jambe but a paw.
A GLOSSARY OF TERMS USED IN HERALDRY
by JAMES PARKER
FIRST PUBLISHED in 1894
https://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/index.htm
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https://www.heraldicdesign.com/docs/complete_guide_heraldry.pdf
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Thank you all. I would never have guessed that's what it was. I can see it now as a paw with claws. Initially I thought it was a prawn. I think gambe is probably from the same root as the French word jambe meaning leg. (Not to be confused with gambas meaning prawns.). I have the Complete Guide To Heraldry, on my bookshelf, and the good thing about a book is you can flick through it looking for something, not that I managed to find it of course. The good thing about a PDF is that it doesn't break your foot if you drop it.
I think the herald or the painter had probably never seen one before.
So is the object in the middle, a fixture or a feature?
Zaph
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The blazon says:
Newdegate (Newdegate, co. Surrey; Thomas Newdegate,
Esq., of Newdigate, Gu. three lions' gambs erased ar. Crest—
A fleur-de-lis ar. Another Crest—A lion's gamb erased ar.
Anothtr Crest—A swan ar. beaked and membered gu. gorged
with a ducal coronet or, thereto a chain affixed, and reflexed
over the back vert. Anothtr Crest—A horse courant az.
flames of fire issuing from his nostrils ppr. Motto—Confide
recte agens.
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A cadency mark or similar?
Badly drawn Crescent or Annulet?
A difference of some form anyway.
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My Latin is not up to much but I think the "filii secundo" means second son. This would support David Nicholl's suggestion that it is a cadency mark because the mark for difference of a second son is a crescent.
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It might be a Crescent, but that would be with the opening at the top,Increscent is with the opening to the left, Decrescent with the opening to the right.
Yes ,the Isle of Man “ Which ever way you throw me I stand” .
Viktoria.
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By default the "horns" of a crescent are uppermost.
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It’s filii secundo-geniti: second-born son.
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It’s amazing what is staring you in the face! That’s exactly what is written in the Latin!
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I think gambe is probably from the same root as the French word jambe meaning leg. (Not to be confused with gambas meaning prawns.).
You are forgetting the 18th-century viola da gamba, so called because it was the predecessor of the cello, played between the legs ?
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Andrew, it's easily done.
Thank you all, and there was me thinking it was three prawns and a croissant.
Zaph
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Andrew, it's easily done.
Thank you all, and there was me thinking it was three prawns and a croissant.
Zaph
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Viktoria.
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Andrew, it's easily done.
Thank you all, and there was me thinking it was three prawns and a croissant.
Zaph
These were published 1660, 1679 and 1682 - who ate the croissant!
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Where are those images from please?
Zaph
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1679
Full TextBook
A display of heraldry manifesting a more easie access to the knowledge thereof than hath been hitherto published by any, through the benefit of method : whereunto it is now reduced by the study and industry of John Guillim ...
1682
Heraldry epitomized containing a short and easie way to attain that art, explained in divers examples : illustrated with variety of coats of arms, not only of the families of the nobility and gentry, but also of countreys, cities, corporations and fraternities / collected by John Seller.
1660
Full TextBook
A display of heraldrie: manifesting a more easie access to the knowledge thereof then hath hitherto been published by any, through the benefit of method; / wherein it is now reduced by the study and industry of John Guillim ... Interlaced with much variety of history suitable to the severall occasions or subjects.
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Snipped from
"A new dictionary of heraldry ...." - author not named and "Printed for Jer. Batley at the Dove in Paternoster Row, 1725"
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More-or-less what I said in replies 3 and 6 :)
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More-or-less what I said in replies 3 and 6 :)
Agreed
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I wasn't challenging anything I was just curious. Is that 1725 available online?
Zaph
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I wasn't challenging anything I was just curious. Is that 1725 available online?
Zaph
Yup.
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/A_New_Dictionary_of_Heraldry_Illustrated.html?id=RZMGeZU7PyQC&redir_esc=y
"Search inside" = gambes. Returns page 157
Added - see page 1 for author.
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Thank you, that if lovely. I will write each 's' replaced by 'f' today.
Zaph
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The "long s" is written as ſ.
Not quite a lower-case "f" :) No crosspiece!
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Yeſ. Aſ in ſedantry. (That was meant in good-natured banter. I always enjoy your heraldic comments.)
Zaph
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The "long s" is written as ſ.
Not quite a lower-case "f" :) No crosspiece!
Zaph - been there, got the t-fhirt.
see replies #12 - #16
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=872491.msg7438682#msg7438682
Checked out how to create the true medial "s" but still use "f" to search
KG - regards
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As long as we’re being pedantic, the long s doesn’t appear at the ends of words. Sorry, Zaph.
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That was my bad guess.
Zaph