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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: This Boy on Sunday 21 September 25 10:11 BST (UK)
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On Friday 11th June 1897 the Carlisle Patriot published the following article:
Narrow Escape from Drowning.
The three-year-old son of Mr. T. Mingings, Corrie’s Court, Milbourne Street, Carlisle, narrowly escaped drowning on Friday in the mill dam at the back of that street. The child had fallen in while playing and was carried under the New Brewery archway before being rescued by a young man named Henry Skinner. The child was unconscious, but Dr. Fairlie succeeded in reviving him.
My Great Uncle was called Henry Skinner. He was born on 6th December 1879 in Carlisle. In the 1891 census he is living with his family at 11 Byron Street, Carlisle and was still resident there in the 1901 census.
I am trying to understand if my Henry is the person mentioned in the article. He would have been 17 years of age at the time so fits the description of 'young man' in the article. It seems from modern maps that Byron Street and Milbourne Street are reasonably close to each other so I am growing increasingly confident. However, I cannot place the specific locations of number 11 Byron Street and of Corrie's Court in relation to Milbourne street to be exact about the proximity to each other.
I wonder if any local historians can comment on the precise location of Corrie's Court, The Mill Dam and The New Brewery from that period. Reference to a map showing them would be superb.
If anyone has any other ideas about how I can possibly determine, with the highest degree of confidence, if it was indeed my Henry who is the subject of this article I would be interested.
Grateful for any help, advice, suggestions or theories as always.
oh, and Henry is shown on my profile photograph of a 1912 wedding. He is the Charlie Chaplin lookalike who is directly behind the grooms mother.
ThisBoy.
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If it helps, this 1898 map shows Milbourne St, Byron St and New Brewery, though I can't see Corrie's Court noted.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.6&lat=54.89415&lon=-2.94551&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
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If you look at the enumerator's route on the 1901 census, there are a number of Courts between Richard St and Holme Terrace, with the first being Dixon Court. Corrie's court is the 6th. Dixon Court and Holme Terrace show on this 1865 map.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.6&lat=54.89415&lon=-2.94551&layers=168&right=ESRIWorld
RG13/4868/150
There appear to be a few Henry SKINNER's around. :-\
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Another newspaper report: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/7d0a8184-0217-47a2-aea4-594f28f1870b
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@Maddys52 Thank you so much.
These side by side maps are so helpful.
From them I have worked out that Henry's address and the location where the boy was rescued are only about 300 meters apart. It is great to see the locations of this incident on a contemporary map of the time and see it also on today's arial photograph.
I guess that Corrie's Court was pretty much adjacent to the New Brewery from an assessment of the map and the census enumerator's route.
Would you be inclined to agree with my assessment?
I will try to see which other Carlisle Henry Skinners could fall into the 'young man' category in 1897.
Your help is VERY much appreciated.
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Another newspaper report: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/7d0a8184-0217-47a2-aea4-594f28f1870b
Great find ShaunJ.
Many thanks.
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It sounds like the little boy fell into the Little Caldew which was a mill race for cloth manufacturers and other business' along its route from Holme Head Bay until it reaches the River Eden, further west than where the Caldew River joins the River Eden. It is still there today, but virtually no water in it! That area of the 'new brewery' is now called The Maltings. The Little Caldew would have been easily accessible from the back of Milbourne Street and it surrounding courts, which isn't the case today. Byron Street (or what's left of it) and the Little Caldew are close, (probably 2 minutes walk) and it is a fair assumption that young Henry is your Henry.
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@Maddys52 Thank you so much.
These side by side maps are so helpful.
From them I have worked out that Henry's address and the location where the boy was rescued are only about 300 meters apart. It is great to see the locations of this incident on a contemporary map of the time and see it also on today's arial photograph.
I guess that Corrie's Court was pretty much adjacent to the New Brewery from an assessment of the map and the census enumerator's route.
Would you be inclined to agree with my assessment?
I will try to see which other Carlisle Henry Skinners could fall into the 'young man' category in 1897.
Your help is VERY much appreciated.
Kelly's 1894 Directory also lists the Courts that lay between Richard St and Holme Terrace. Maddy's 1898 map at reply #1 identifies Slack's Court
https://leicester.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/45133/rec/1
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Just realised I put the wrong link in my reply #2. This is the 1865 map showing the courts in more detail with Dixon Court.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/121141043#zoom=6.1&lat=1542&lon=11249&layers=BT
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Just realised I put the wrong link in my reply #2. This is the 1865 map showing the courts in more detail with Dixon Court.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/121141043#zoom=6.1&lat=1542&lon=11249&layers=BT
Welcome to the club - guilty of same many times!
I'd imagined Milbourne St much changed but no so. Streetview shows it much as it was. At intervals Milbourne St house numbers are separated by a door/entrance (most unmarked) - see Nos 64 - 66, 68 - 70 and 72 - 74, the original entrances to the Courts? The 1891 Census sequence of addresses would appear to support this - they read:-
64 Milbourne St
1-8 Corries Court
66-68 Milbourne Street
10 Corrie Place
70 -72 Milbourne Street
1-2 Jones Court
74 Milbourne St
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Hanes Teulu thank you so much. Also Maddys 52 great stuff. Really helpful. Thank you everyone.
Oh, if anyone has or knows of a photograph of Byron Street from before the houses were knocked down or even of a photo of the area where this accident took place I would be really interested.
Thanks also Gan Yam. You help me with every query I put up and it is mutely appreciated. I had to research what a Mill Race was. Every day is a school day.
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Just realised I put the wrong link in my reply #2. This is the 1865 map showing the courts in more detail with Dixon Court.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/121141043#zoom=6.1&lat=1542&lon=11249&layers=BT
Welcome to the club - guilty of same many times!
I'd imagined Milbourne St much changed but no so. Streetview shows it much as it was. At intervals Milbourne St house numbers are separated by a door/entrance (most unmarked) - see Nos 64 - 66, 68 - 70 and 72 - 74, the original entrances to the Courts? The 1891 Census sequence of addresses would appear to support this - they read:-
64 Milbourne St
1-8 Corries Court
66-68 Milbourne Street
10 Corrie Place
70 -72 Milbourne Street
1-2 Jones Court
74 Milbourne St
Really interesting Thank you. I think the conclusion from this is that the entrance to Corrie's Court was between what is now 64 and 66 Milbourne Street. It appears now as a white wooden un numbered door between the two house doors 64/66. How I would love to go back in time for a wander round even if only for one day.
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Hanes Teulu thank you so much. Also Maddys 52 great stuff. Really helpful. Thank you everyone.
Oh, if anyone has or knows of a photograph of Byron Street from before the houses were knocked down or even of a photo of the area where this accident took place I would be really interested.
Thanks also Gan Yam. You help me with every query I put up and it is mutely appreciated. I had to research what a Mill Race was. Every day is a school day.
You might already have this which is an ariel view of Byron Street and the surrounding area. Byron Street is the street to the side of the building with the black at the bottom and white at the top. This is a pub called the Joiners Arms, known locally as the Blue Lugs, and is still open and trading today. https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/frontend.php?pos=1&action=zoom&keywords=Ref_No_increment;MATCHES;(^|%20+)ct17738($|%20+)&continueUrl=ZnJvbnRlbmQucGhwPyZrZXl3b3Jkcz1hbGwlM0JNQVRDSEVTJTNCJTI4JTVFJTdDJTVCJTVFYS16QS1aJTVEJTJCJTI5Qnlyb25fU3RyZWV0JTI4JTI0JTdDJTVCJTVFYS16QS1aJTVEJTJCJTI5JmFjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2g=
and this one you can just about see one of the houses in Byron Street. This was taken during the floods in 1925, but the area has been flooded again since then, the worst being 2005 and 2015
https://cumbriaimagebank.org.uk/frontend.php?pos=2&action=zoom&keywords=Ref_No_increment;MATCHES;(^|%20+)ct30436($|%20+)&continueUrl=ZnJvbnRlbmQucGhwPyZrZXl3b3Jkcz1hbGwlM0JNQVRDSEVTJTNCJTI4JTVFJTdDJTVCJTVFYS16QS1aJTVEJTJCJTI5Qnlyb25fU3RyZWV0JTI4JTI0JTdDJTVCJTVFYS16QS1aJTVEJTJCJTI5JmFjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2g=
This link below is a photo of where the incident likely took place. This is the Little Caldew where the brewery used to be. Just after the white and red modern building is a bridge/road to cross the mill race and probably the bridge mentioned in the article. To the back of this area is Milbourne Street and the large chimney is Dixon's Chimney, at one supposed to be the tallest structure in Europe.
https://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/98/76/987670_2455bd18.jpg
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Thanks Gan Yam. Appreciated muchly. I did have the first one but not the second and really interesting to see the area where this took place.
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Welcome to the club - guilty of same many times!
I'd imagined Milbourne St much changed but no so. Streetview shows it much as it was. At intervals Milbourne St house numbers are separated by a door/entrance (most unmarked) - see Nos 64 - 66, 68 - 70 and 72 - 74, the original entrances to the Courts? The 1891 Census sequence of addresses would appear to support this - they read:-
64 Milbourne St
1-8 Corries Court
66-68 Milbourne Street
10 Corrie Place
70 -72 Milbourne Street
1-2 Jones Court
74 Milbourne St
[/quote]
Really interesting Thank you. I think the conclusion from this is that the entrance to Corrie's Court was between what is now 64 and 66 Milbourne Street. It appears now as a white wooden un numbered door between the two house doors 64/66. How I would love to go back in time for a wander round even if only for one day.
[/quote]
I went the whole hog earlier today against each "Courts' entrance" still present on Milbourne and checked them against the '91 Census which produced
Entrance between
80-82 led to Slacks Court
76-78 led to Sanderson's Court, James Place
72-74 led to Jones Court
68-70 Corrie Place
64-66 led to Corrie Court
58-60 led to Lawson Court
52-54 led to Atkinson Court
46-48 led to Jackson Court
40-42 led to Milbourne Court
(Note to self - must get out more)
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Fascinating photos Gan Yam, and well done hanes teulu. :D
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Records of the Cumbria Constabulary (formerly the Cumberland and Westmorland Constabulary)
Have you tried contacting Cumbria Archives to see if the incident was recorded and what the Police Log Book or Incident Book or Occurrence Book (or whatever they call these Book/s in their Force), said about the incident and rescuer?
You may need to purchase a page copy or scan of the entries in the various Log/s and Book/s.
Added:
Some Policeman Note Books also survive in some Constabulary Records?
One of the books, may, or may not give you brief summary and include those involved?
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/1?_aq=Carlisle%20Constabulary&_ep=Carlisle&_dss=range&_sd=1890&_ed=1901&_ro=any&_st=adv
Contact details for Cumbria Archives should be on their website
https://cumbriaarchives.org.uk/search
Added: If you visit, it seems you can photograph Free of Charge
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a/A13529876
Added:
Was An Award Indexed
Some rescuers, receive Awards from Local, Regional or National Bodies.
https://royalhumanesociety.org.uk/about-us/awards-and-certificates/
Mark
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Welcome to the club - guilty of same many times!
I'd imagined Milbourne St much changed but no so. Streetview shows it much as it was. At intervals Milbourne St house numbers are separated by a door/entrance (most unmarked) - see Nos 64 - 66, 68 - 70 and 72 - 74, the original entrances to the Courts? The 1891 Census sequence of addresses would appear to support this - they read:-
64 Milbourne St
1-8 Corries Court
66-68 Milbourne Street
10 Corrie Place
70 -72 Milbourne Street
1-2 Jones Court
74 Milbourne St
Really interesting Thank you. I think the conclusion from this is that the entrance to Corrie's Court was between what is now 64 and 66 Milbourne Street. It appears now as a white wooden un numbered door between the two house doors 64/66. How I would love to go back in time for a wander round even if only for one day.
[/quote]
I went the whole hog earlier today against each "Courts' entrance" still present on Milbourne and checked them against the '91 Census which produced
Entrance between
80-82 led to Slacks Court
76-78 led to Sanderson's Court, James Place
72-74 led to Jones Court
68-70 Corrie Place
64-66 led to Corrie Court
58-60 led to Lawson Court
52-54 led to Atkinson Court
46-48 led to Jackson Court
40-42 led to Milbourne Court
(Note to self - must get out more)
[/quote]
Great work! I get more pleasure nowadays from delving into history than I do from getting out and down with the kids ;D
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Records of the Cumbria Constabulary (formerly the Cumberland and Westmorland Constabulary)
Have you tried contacting Cumbria Archives to see if the incident was recorded and what the Police Log Book or Incident Book or Occurrence Book (or whatever they call these Book/s in their Force), said about the incident and rescuer?
You may need to purchase a page copy or scan of the entries in the various Log/s and Book/s.
Added:
Some Policeman Note Books also survive in some Constabulary Records?
One of the books, may, or may not give you brief summary and include those involved?
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/1?_aq=Carlisle%20Constabulary&_ep=Carlisle&_dss=range&_sd=1890&_ed=1901&_ro=any&_st=adv
Contact details for Cumbria Archives should be on their website
https://cumbriaarchives.org.uk/search
Added: If you visit, it seems you can photograph Free of Charge
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a/A13529876
Added:
Was An Award Indexed
Some rescuers, receive Awards from Local, Regional or National Bodies.
https://royalhumanesociety.org.uk/about-us/awards-and-certificates/
Mark
Thanks Mark. Great suggestion. I will check that out next time I visit the archives.