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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: petey22 on Saturday 20 September 25 12:59 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out as much as I can about Elizabeth Rippingall of St. Saviour, Norwich (at the time of her marriage).
She marries Joseph Rogers, 16-08-1750 at Heigham, Norwich.
They have children: Katherine Rogers 1752, bap 26-08-1753, St. Andrew, Norwich and Harmer Rogers c1753.
She is the granddaughter of another Elizabeth Rippingall and is mentioned in her will. From the will I can read that she has a sister Ann Rippingall and that her father is John Rippingall. In the will a Thomas Brown of Elling (Ellingham) Norfolk is mentioned, but have no idea of his connection.
I do not have a birth, baptism or death/burial for Elizabeth Rippingall. Her husband Joseph remarries in 1784, so she must pass away between 1753 and 1784.
There are many spellings of the name: Rippingall/ Rippinggull/ Rippingale, which makes things very difficult and confusing ???
There are another couple of posts regarding other members of this family group but as they have become so large I would like this post to be concentrated on Elizabeth Rippingall ::)
Any help very much appreciated ;D
nb. On reading the will again, it does not state that John Rippingall is the father of Elizabeth Rippingall, but states that John Rippingall is the son of Elizabeth Rippingall of the will.
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This is from one of the other posts and very relavent:
Indenture: Bargain and Sale. Joseph Rogers of Norwich, surgeon, and Elizabeth, his wife, granddaughter of Elizabeth Rippingall of Norwich, widow, decd, to John Harmer of Norwich, surgeon.
30 Aug 1753
Messuage with barns and buildings in St Mary Unburnt and St Saviour, Norwich.
Link to NROCAT
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tt4/
Marriage bond on FS, maybe (and unusually) it doesn't give an occupation for Joseph
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DR17-63G
I have been trying to order the names mentioned in the indenture. If read it correctly then:
Joseph Rogers is married to Elizabeth (Rippingall?)
Her parents are not mentioned but she is granddaughter to Elizabeth Rippingall
Elizabeth Rippingall is the widow of John Harmer.
This raises 2 questions in my mind
i. Does Elizabeth revert to her maiden name of Rippingall after becoming a widow
ii. Why is her grandaughter not Elizabeth Harmer ???
I am confused ???
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So her grandmother Elizabeth Rippingall was from Norwich then, was she still in Norwich when she wrote out her will?
If she married in 1750, we can guess that she was likely born about 1720 to c1733-1734.
I did find an Elizabeth Rippingale born in Acle, Norfolk, baptised 25 April 1733 to John and Elizabeth.
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Yes, the grandmother was in Norwich at the time of the will being written in 1743. It also mentions that she is to be buried at St. Andrews, Norwich where her parents are buried.
I too have found the Elizabeth Rippengall born at Acle c1733, to John and Elizabeth with 2 brothers John and Charles, but no sister Anne :-\
There is an Elizabeth Rippengall born Lyng c1693 to parents John and Elizabeth with brother John c1695 and sister Anne c1698. Being born in 1693 would mean she marries in 1750 aged 57 which does not seem correct seeing that she bares 2 children in 1752 and 1753,,,,
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Could that indenture be between Joseph Rogers and John Harmer? I think John Harmer, the surgeon, was his contemporary. There are many reports on his litothomy procedures around 1746 (unless his father was also John Harmer and a surgeon).
I think Elizabeth Havett married Henry Rippingall and she is the grandmother of Elizabeth Rippingall (who married Joseph Rogers) and Ann(e) Rippingall who married John Chambers.
Elizabeth Havett person details
Name Elizabeth Havett
Sex Female
Father's Name John Havett
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Ann
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 7 Oct 1679
Event Place Norwich, Norfolk, England
Event Place (Original) Saint Andrew, Norwich, Norfolk, England
Henry Rippingall Husband M
Henry Rippingall person details
Name Henry Rippingall
Sex Male
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Havett
Spouse's Sex Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 18 May 1703
Event Place Norwich, Norfolk, England
Event Place (Original) Cathedral Church, Norwich, Norfolk, England
Reference Item 3
Henry Rippingale Husband M
John Rippingale Son M
John Rippingale person details
Name John Rippingale
Sex Male
Father's Name Henry Rippingale
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Elizabeth
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date
13 November 1704
Event Place Aylsham, Norfolk, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Aylsham, Norfolk, England
Henry Rippingale
Vital • England, Norfolk, Parish Registers (County Record Office), 1510-1997
Henry Rippingale person details
Name Henry Rippingale
Event Type Burial
Event Date 4 February 1714
Event Place Aylsham, Norfolk, England
Event Place (Original) Aylsham, Norfolk, England
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@PatLac, thankyou for your research.
It will take me some time to process this, I am so glad as this is the first insight I have with regard to grandmother; Elizabeth Rippingall and her connection to the Rippingall family.
Also I am especially happy with the link to sister Ann(e) Rippengall. Alysham, Norfolk has been added to my list of places to visit when I return to England next. When I was a boy , I used to spend my summer holidays at my uncles farm at new Buckingham, Norfolk, never expecting that 50 years later I would be studying and researching these places in the roundabout area ::)
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"Gooch helped to select the first members of the staff. Five physicians, three surgeons and three assistant surgeons were appointed at a meeting on 10th October. The physicians were John Beevor (1726-1815), John Manning (1730-1806), Dr Peter Hooke and Dr John Murray. Dr Dack was appointed but declined to accept. The surgeons were; William Donne (1746-1804) who performed 170 lithotomy operations during his 32 years on the staff; Mr C.Maltby and Joseph Rogers."
http://www.takeheart.co.uk/earlynn.htm
John Beevor and father Thomas Beevor were mentioned in one of the documentes linked above (no time to find it now).
John Harmer was the husband of Catherine Cross, sister of Mary Cross who married to Joseph Rogers, the parents of Joseph Rogers married to Elizabeth Rippingall.
jonwarm had linked this info on your other thread:
And here on FS, using full text search (the transcription is not 100% accurate!)
given & bequeathed (that is to say) to Joseph Rogers son of Joseph Rogers of London Gentleman and Nephew to Catherine the wife of Mr John Harmer of the City of Norwich Surgeon the sum of ten guineas to be paid within seven months next after my Decease.....
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN6-CR28?view=fullText&keywords=Joseph%20Rogers%2CSurgeon&lang=en&groupId==
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=769108.msg7659741#msg7659741
Mention of Henry Rippingall's first marriage to Hannah Lawes, she died in 1701 and Henry remarried to Elizabeth Havett.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol5.2.pdf#page=17
He had a son, John Rippingall who was a rector.
https://archive.org/details/biographicalhis02venn/page/14/mode/2up?q=rippingall
I have found two John Rippingall born in Aylsham (one born in 1704) with different wives:
Wife Elizabeth (children's baptism records: Elizabeth - who is probably 'your' Elizabeth Rippingall who married Joseph Rogers-, John and Charles, both boys died in infancy) and wife Frances (probably nee Dennis).
I know the Rector John Rippingall married at least twice because one year before his death (1769) he married Jane Lines (1768).
If he was the same man that married Elizabeth it is not clear yet
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Found some Court records for Tacolneston for Elizabeth Rippingall of Norwich, who died 1744.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRG3-BK9?view=fullText&keywords=Elizabeth%20Rippingall&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-Z3G
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRG3-N5Z?view=fullText&keywords=Elizabeth%20Rippingall&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-Z3G
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This 1792 administration relates to the Beevor family (see PatLac’s post). It specifies that Ann Rippingale married John Chambers and was Elizabeth’s sister.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS62-7Q8L?view=fullText&keywords=Elizabeth%20Ripping&lang=en&groupId=
FindMyPast indexes a marriage licence for Ann to marry in 1749 at the age of 19, i.e. Ann was born c1730. Place of marriage: Norwich St Michael at Plea or ?Melton (not sure where the licence was issued as it doesn’t appear to be in the NRO indexes)
There is a marriage John Chambers/Ann Brifferling[/b] at Little Melton 1749. This is such an unusual name that I wonder if it’s a mistranscription from the licence to the register.
If Ann(e) was the eldest daughter, she may have been baptised elsewhere, prior to the family’s move to Acle. Which parish was her mother from?
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How about this?
Ann Rippingal
bapt 17 Jun 1731, Rochford, Essex
Father: Rev Mr John Rippingal
Mother: Eliz
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Great find, lli1133! I was wondering if the Rev (or Rector) John Rippingall was Elizabeth Rippingall's son.
The odd thing is that some of his children's baptism records say mother Frances. Where did you find this birth record?
Ann Rippingale
Vital • England, Norfolk, Parish Registers (County Record Office), 1510-1997
Ann Rippingale person details
Name Ann Rippingale
Sex Female
Father's Name Jo: Rippingale
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Frances Rippingale
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 20 September 1732
Event Place Norwich, Norfolk, England
Event Place (Original) Norwich, East Rudham, Norfolk, England
Page Number item 20
Edit: on second thought, maybe this one was actually Rippingale.
John Rippingall was a Curate at Eastwood, Essex, in 1730
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.jsp?PersonID=114889
Regarding your previous post, the marriage record of John Harmer and Catherine Cross in London says the groom's parish was St Michael at Plea.
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The Essex baptism is indexed on FindMyPast. Unfortunately it’s just a transcript, but it fits perfectly with the curacy you found. I wonder if John married Elizabeth Wigmore in Little Shelford in 1727, as he presumably studied at Cambridge.
Like you, I was wondering whether there are (at least) two John Rippingales involved. John, a son of John Rippingale, the Rector, and Elizabeth, was baptised in Beighton near Acle in 1734 - but was this the same John named in the Acle registers? The Clergy Database does not mention Acle.
The East Rudham John married to Grace could be from a different branch.
Thanks for the information about the Cross connection.
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Yes, I think Elizabeth Wigmore is a good candidate for John Rippingall's wife.
He was appointed to Beighton 2 days before Elizabeth's christening in Acle St Edmund's so maybe they were in transit? She was born on 25 April 1733 and baptised on 20 July 1733.
Appt Rippinghall, John 18/06/1733 Rector Institution Beighton alias Boyton/
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Ann Rippingall and John Chambers marriage record
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XHGX-Z?view=index&cc=1824690&lang=en&groupId=
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Ann and John Chambers' memorial at Wymondham Abbey.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/78862980/john-chambers
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Here is a brief bio of John Rippinghall, in Alumni Cantabrigienses.
RIPPINGHALL, JOHN. Adm. pens, (age 16) at Caius, Oct. 17, 1720. S. of Henry, attorney, of Aylsham. B. there. Schools, Holt (Mr Reynolds), Norwich (Mr Reddington) and Bury (Mr Kinsman). Scholar, 1720-4; Matric. 1721; LL.B. 1729. Ord. deacon (London) May 24, 1730; priest (Norwich) June 17. I733i C. of Eastwood, Essex, 1730. R. of Beighton, Norfolk, 1733-69. Died Sept. 7, 1769. {Venn, 11. 15.)
https://archive.org/details/p1alumnicantabri03univuoft/p1alumnicantabri03univuoft/page/460/mode/2up?view=theater
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Wow, at lot has happened since I last logged in. Its going to take time to catch up with it all.
I'm still back on the early posts from PatLac:
I have found: Henry Rippingall c1687 and Elizabeth Havett c1679, marriage 18-05-1703, Cathedral Church, Norwich. (I cant find an entry for the 1srt marriage to Hannah Lawes)
John and Elizabeth seem to have 2x kids: John c1704 (Aylsham) and Susan 1711 (North Walsham)
John marries Hannah Shore in1737, North Walsham. They have Anne c1738, Hannah c1740 and Anna c1748 all born North Walsham, but I can find no Elizabeth Rippingall to be granddaughter to Elizabeth Rippingall (nee Havett) :P
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Wow, at lot has happened since I last logged in. Its going to take time to catch up with it all.
I'm still back on the early posts from PatLac:
I have found: Henry Rippingall c1687 and Elizabeth Havett c1679, marriage 18-05-1703, Cathedral Church, Norwich. (I cant find an entry for the 1srt marriage to Hannah Lawes)
John and Elizabeth seem to have 2x kids: John c1704 (Aylsham) and Susan 1711 (North Walsham)
John marries Hannah Shore in1737, North Walsham. They have Anne c1738, Hannah c1740 and Anna c1748 all born North Walsham, but I can find no Elizabeth Rippingall to be granddaughter to Elizabeth Rippingall (nee Havett) :P
This is another John ;D We think John, son of Henry Rippingall and Elizabeth Havett, born in Aylsham in 1704, married Elizabeth Wigmore (Cambridge), had daughter Ann (Eastwood Essex, 1731), daughter Elizabeth (Acles Norfolk) and sons John (Beighton Norfolk 1734) and Charles (Acles Norfolk 1735), places where he had lived during his education to become a Rector (see Vance Mead's post above).
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Henry Rippingall, son of Roger Rippingall, baptised 21 Aug 1687 at Lyng St Margaret, Norfolk.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684830f186557454050a1217/henry-rippingall-baptism-norfolk-lyng-1687-08-21?locale=en
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Great find, Vance!
Petey, this document already linked above also mentions Ann Havett, sister of Elizabeth Rippingal (nee Havett), and their father John Havett.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS62-7Q8L?view=fullText&keywords=Joseph%20Rogers&lang=en&groupId=
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Looks likely the Elizabeth Rippingale born 1733 in Acle to John is the one who wed in Norwich in 1750 after all. Thus making her 17 when she married.
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Another mention of Hannah Lawes, Henry Rippingall and "his son" John, aged 10, on his death (1714).
Hannah had died 13 years before (1701), so Henry at the time of his death was married to Elizabeth Havett, and their son John (born 1704) was aged 10.
"Sometime in the late 17th./early 18th. century, Henry Rippingall,
attorney, inherited the property through his wife, Hannah Lawes. He was
churchwarden in 1692, 1696 and 1710. On his death, his son (or
grandson?) John, aged 10, was admitted to this property and the other
properties as listed above. Henry Rippingall built himself a Mansion
House on the site with a garden and a garden house behind."
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol4.8.pdf
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Henry’s birth in Lyng fits well with the inscription on the memorial in Wymondham Abbey. Henry presumably moved to Aylsham to exercise as an attorney, where his son John was born.
Anne Chambers (nee Rippingal) is described on the memorial as daughter and co-heiress of Rev John Rippingall of North Tuddenham, which is mid-Norfolk. Although John was Rector of Beighton at his death, the Rippingale family held lands in the manors around Lyng, including North Tuddenham.
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Another mention of Henry Rippingall and Peter Lawes, maybe Hannah's brother?
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol12.8-1.pdf
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A possible baptism for Henry's father Roger:
Roger Ripingale, birth 17 Mar 1656/57, baptism 07 Apr 1657, at Hoe St Andrew, son of *iprian? and Ellen
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/6847aabe8655745405d95e5c/roger-ripingale-baptism-norfolk-hoe-1657-04-07?locale=en
Hoe is five miles from Lyng. The only name I can think of for *iprian? is Ciprian.
Edit: records for Ciprian.
Baptism 9 Jun 1637, Cipprian, son of Roger Rippingall, at North Elmham St Mary
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/6845fd8986557454055a780d/cipprian-rippingall-baptism-norfolk-north-elmham-1637-06-09?locale=en
Baptism 9 Aug 1665, Cyprian son of Cyprian Rippinghall and Elenore, at Lyng St Margaret
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/6848322186557454050a95de/cyprian-ripinghall-baptism-norfolk-lyng-1665-08-09?locale=en
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Re Henry of Aylsham.
There are two deaths recorded:
Mr Henry Rippingale, 4 Feb 1714/15
Henry Rippingale 7 Jun 1717
The latter left a will.
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According to this document there were two Henry Rippingale (snr and jnr), and Eliz. Rippingale (jnr), so it's possible that Henry Rippingale jnr was married to Elizabeth Havett.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol2.11.pdf
Rippingall and Rippingale ???
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Re Henry of Aylsham.
There are two deaths recorded:
Mr Henry Rippingale, 4 Feb 1714/15
Henry Rippingale 7 Jun 1717
The latter left a will.
According to this, Henry Rippingall the attorney died in 1714.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol2.11.pdf
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Yes, I think the source is correct.
Henry Rippingall’s will (1717) mentions small bequests to brothers Bartholomew and Cyprian (when he reaches the age of 21) and sisters Hannah and Ellen (?)
The bulk of his estate (freehold and copyhold) is left to his friend Thomas Last of Aylsham.
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Yes, I think the source is correct.
Henry Rippingall’s will (1717) mentions small bequests to brothers Bartholomew and Cyprian (when he reaches the age of 21) and sisters Hannah and Ellen (?)
The bulk of his estate (freehold and copyhold) is left to his friend Thomas Last of Aylsham.
In the will, is his name Rippingall or Rippingale?
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The will spells the name Rippingall
If Henry d 1717 is the son of Roger and Rachel, b1687 in Lyng, the names of the siblings all match.
The Aylsham record PatLac posted earlier suggests by using Senior and Junior that there was a family relationship, but not necessarily one of father and son (there’s one in my own family where they are uncle/nephew)
Was John the son of Henry senior or junior?
Who were Henry senior’s parents?
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I agree, and given that Eliz. Rippingall (jnr) is mentioned, I'm inclined to think that Henry Rippingall who married Elizabeth Havett was the junior.
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On the other hand this passage suggests that this Henry Rippingall was much older than the other one baptised in 1687 found by Vance.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol5.5.pdf
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Three births at South Burlingham, father Christopher Rippingale and mother Jenergan or Jerningham
And in Beeston 1654/55
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/684507d08655745405f681e8/jerningham-rippingell-baptism-norfolk-beeston-?locale=en
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He was appointed to Beighton 2 days before Elizabeth's christening in Acle St Edmund's so maybe they were in transit? She was born on 25 April 1733 and baptised on 20 July 1733.
Appt Rippinghall, John 18/06/1733 Rector Institution Beighton alias Boyton/
John is in Acle (residence) in the 1734 Norfolk Poll Book.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9Y-29QX-5
Genuki have it as well, freehold Boyton (Beighton)
http://www.origins.org.uk/genuki/NFK//norfolk/voting/poll1734/a.shtml
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Yes, it looks as if Henry was practising in 1687. Also, in the 1703 marriage record transcription on FreeReg Henry is described as widower of Aylsham, and Elizabeth Havett as a spinster.
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Henry Rippingall’s will (1717)
is on FamilySearch, starts bottom left (number 38)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C398-89BQ-X
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Henry Rippingall junior!
Reference: C 11/1974/53
Description:
Short title: Earl of Yarmouth v Rippingall.
Document type: Bill and answer.
Plaintiffs: William [Paston] Earl of Yarmouth.
Defendants: Elizabeth Rippingall, widow and John Rippingall, infant (by said Elizabeth Rippingall) and Henry Rippingall junior.
Date of bill (or first document): 1715
Note: The naming of a party does not imply that he or she will appear in all the documents in this cause (after the bill)
Date: 1715
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10401431
Reference: PROB 31/52/576
Description:
Exhibit: 1727/576. Henry Rippingall of Aylesham, Norfolk. Probate inventory, or declaration, of the estate of the same, deceased: with account
Date: 1727 November-December
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9800858
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Well found!!
So perhaps Henry junior was Henry’s son by his first marriage to Hannah?
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That was my first thought, but I couldn't find any marriage records of Henry and Hannah and any birth records of Henry junior.
In 1706 they were living in Aylsham according to this document, but what about John? He was 2 years old and should be in this list.
"What follows, then, is a full list of everybody over 16 who was alive in Aylsham in 1706, i.e. all
born sometime in the seventeenth century. This makes it quite a unique and valuable document. There is no apparent order in the listing of names..."
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol2.11.pdf
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There is also this document
Reference: C/11/2145/7
Short title: Rippingall v Bennett
Document type: Bill and two answers
Plaintiff: Revd John Rippingall, rector of Beighton, Norfolk (only son and heir and administrator of Henry Rippingall, gent deceased, late of Aylsham, Norfolk, of goods unadministrated by Elizabeth Rippingall, his widow deceased)
Defendants: John Bennet, gent and William Herring DD, Chancellor of York
Date of bill: 1753
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Yes, Henry jnr probably died before 1753.
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1717?
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Nope, Henry Rippingall who died in 1717 mentioned brothers Cyprian, Bartholomew and sisters Ellen and Hannah in his will, their parents were Roger and Rachel.
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Of course he was …
Then as there’s no evidence of a son Henry born to Henry, maybe Henry junior was a kinsman, close enough to be involved in the litigation? Maybe in a legal capacity?
And Henry named his son John after Elizabeth’s father John Havett?
I’m afraid I’m going to call it a day for now.
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I was going to call it a day as well when I spotted something interesting.
"Subjects: Children/Indian Subcontinent/Litigation"
What if the marriage and Henry jnr's birth occurred in India?
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Ann Rippingal
bapt 17 Jun 1731, Rochford, Essex
Father: Rev Mr John Rippingal
Mother: Eliz
Unfortunately it’s just a transcript
Image of Rochford PR is on FamilySearch
It may say Anne, and the date looks more like the 13th of June to me
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QRQ-PCK
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this document already linked above also mentions Ann Havett, sister of Elizabeth Rippingal (nee Havett), and their father John Havett.
Relevant PCC wills
Will of John Havet, Merchant of Norwich, Norfolk
9 April 1725
PROB 11/602/287
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D630508
Will of Anne Havett, Single Woman of Norwich, Norfolk
19 November 1737
PROB 11/686/150
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D602116
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Anne’s 1737 will is interesting. She leaves her house in Norwich to her sister Elizabeth on the condition that she moves there ‘as her usuall place of abode’ and brings up her granddaughters in the house ‘… that the children may be more immediately under [her] care and management’.
The girls Ann(e) and Elizabeth would be 6 and 4 at the time.
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I wonder what happened to Elizabeth, the wife of Rector John Rippingall? She is not mentioned in Anne Havett's will, and when he is mentioned it doesn't say 'widower'.
Maybe this is her death?
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/6849383e865574540550a022/elizabeth-rippingale-burial-norfolk-norwich-1768-01-27?locale=en
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John and Elizabeth had another daughter, Mary who died in 1741.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/68450aff8655745405f7c5b4/mary-rippingall-burial-norfolk-beighton-1741-12-29?locale=en
Edit: FS and FindMyPast's transcripts say 1740.
And another son, John, who died in 1742
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/68450b1d8655745405f7d27f/john-rippingale-burial-norfolk-beighton-1742-11-15?locale=en
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Found some Court records for Tacolneston for Elizabeth Rippingall of Norwich, who died 1744.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRG3-BK9?view=fullText&keywords=Elizabeth%20Rippingall&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-Z3G
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRG3-N5Z?view=fullText&keywords=Elizabeth%20Rippingall&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-Z3G
I think she died in 1743.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/68485d6286557454051c42e3/elizabeth-rippingall-burial-norfolk-norwich-1743-05-03?locale=en
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Oh yes 1743, May. The links I posted are dated May 1744, a year after she died. These court records are good but they can take some understanding.
It shows that when you have ancestors who were notable, it certainly does open up the gates, like with the Rippingale, Harmer and Rogers family.
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I'm still catching up but decided to hit googlebooks.com and simply search rev. John Rippingall/ Rippingale:
https://www.google.nl/books/edition/Kelly_s_Directory_of_Cambridgeshire_Norf/1Gk4squoNSIC?hl=nl&gbpv=1&dq=rev+John+Rippingall&pg=PA366&printsec=frontcover
https://www.google.nl/books/edition/History_Gazetteer_and_Directory_of_Norfo/GEIJAAAAIAAJ?hl=nl&gbpv=1&dq=rev+John+Rippingall&pg=PA779&printsec=frontcover
https://www.google.nl/books/edition/The_Gentleman_s_Magazine_Or_Monthly_Inte/YrYUAAAAQAAJ?hl=nl&gbpv=1&dq=rev+John+Rippingall&pg=PA420&printsec=frontcover
There seems to be a rev S. F. Rippingall of Langham whose second daughter Emma marries an H. S. Partridge of Hockham,,,,
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Hi Pete,
As far as I can tell they were not related (his tree is on FS).
Maybe you could try finding more about Major John Rippingall who was a descendant of Henry Rippingall, attorney of Aylsham?
All I could find about him so far is that he was a farmer in Essex around the time he died, between 1993 - 2012. He was with the Kings African Rifles in 1945-6.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol5.2.pdf#page=17
https://www.kingsafricanriflesassociation.co.uk/departed-comrades/
One possible candidate, but there are some others with variations of the surname.
RIPPINGALL, GRANVILLE JOHN F T 1926
GRO Reference: DOR Q4/2011 in SUFFOLK (748-1E) Entry Number 505593523
EDIT:
I have built a tree on FS and it turns out that Major Rippingall (Granville John Florance Thomas Ripingall) was the great great grandson of Rev S. F. Rippingall (Stephen Frost Rippingall). Another source says he died in 2009.
Mr Granville John Florence Thomas Rippingall
Death • England, Death Records, 1998-2015
Mr Granville John Florence Thomas Rippingall person details
Name Mr Granville John Florence Thomas Rippingall
Sex Male
Residence Postal Code IP22 1
Event Type Death
Event Date 23 Dec 2009
Event Place Diss, Norfolk, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Diss, Norfolk, England
Source Postal Code IP22
I still have to find a link between S. F.'s great grandfather Thomas Rippingall who married Elizabeth Worship in 1730 (Norwich and Fakenham records) and Henry Rippingall. I couldn't find Thomas Rippingall's birth record (around 1700).
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Many thanks to PatLac and Ili1133 for all their detective works !
It was difficult to keep up with you both, but a wonderful journey with many twists and turns.
Again many thanks.
Try as I may, I cannot find a death/ burial for Elizabeth Rogers (nee Rippingall) which can be proven as the correct one. Her death/ burial must take place between 1753 (birth of son Harmer) and 1784 the second marriage of hubby Joseph.
Looking back at the time line I have for Joseph Rogers, he is in Norfolk 1750 - 1777. There is mention of him being in Carmathon, Wales in 1777, but I loose him after that until 1784 and his second marriage at Guildhall, London,,,,, perhaps he was in Carmathon longer? I shall try there ::)
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Hi Petey,
The last sighting of Elizabeth was 1760 when Susanna (and possibly a twin sister Elizabeth) were born in Norwich.
The history of Elizabeth’s upbringing with her grandmother made me think that she (and her sister Anne) inherited Rippingale land and property, independently from her husband Joseph. In the previous thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=893101.0
the discussion focussed on Joseph’s land and how it related to their son Harmer. However I’m wondering whether Elizabeth made a will, and whether that would help determine her death and burial.
Could you post the details of Joseph’s second marriage please?
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This is the document I have for Josephs second marriage to Susanna Ingram.
03-10-1784, St. Lawrence Church, Jewry, Guilhall, London.
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I found an interesting burial, not in Norfolk but Kingston, England.
(I presume Kingston upon Thames?)
Elizabeth Rogers wife of Joseph, buried 23 december 1782.
Could they have moved down to the smoke of London?
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Unfortunately not the Elizabeth you’re looking for. The family were from the parish (in Cambridgeshire); Joseph and Elizabeth married there.
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This document (21 October 1775) mentions "Joseph Rogers, surgeon, of the city of Norwich but now of Knapton Norfolk, and his heirs", but not Elizabeth his wife. Maybe it means Elizabeth was already dead.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6L6Q-TJL?view=fullText&keywords=Joseph%20Rogers%2CSurgeon%2CNorfolk&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-V2F
1777, Joseph Rogers of Swafield.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MH3-Q79?view=fullText&keywords=Joseph%20Rogers%2CJoseph%20Rogers%20Surgeon%2CNorfolk&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-VDB
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One Elizabeth Rogers buried at St Martin's Laugharne Carmarthenshire.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5e810c2ff493fd6c50ef7806/elizabeth-rogers-burial-carmarthenshire-laugharne-1777-03-27?locale=en
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One Elizabeth Rogers buried at St Martin's Laugharne Carmarthenshire.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5e810c2ff493fd6c50ef7806/elizabeth-rogers-burial-carmarthenshire-laugharne-1777-03-27?locale=en
Good find, there is also another Elizabeth Rogers on Familysearch:
Name Elizabeth Rogers
Event Type Burial
Event Date 27 Mar 1777
Event Place Carmarthenshire, Wales
Event Place (Original) Carmarthenshire
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FXJ-T4W7?lang=en
I am sure that the death of Elizabeth wife of Joseph Rogers would be mentioned somewhere in a newspaper/ magazine perhaps? Maybe its time to invest in the newspaper archive site ::)
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Joseph Rogers was advertising his house in Swafield on 30 March 1776. I don't have a subscription.
.. be SOLD by AUCTION, On Tuesday April the 9th, and the ...three following ALL the genuine HOUSELDOLD FURNITURE, and EFFECTS, of JOSEPH ROGERS, his House at Swafield Norfolk ; confiding a Bedftead, with Mahogony Polls, and worftead Furniture, Venetian Window Curtain* ...
Published: Saturday 30 March 1776
Newspaper: Norfolk Chronicle
County: Norfolk, England
Type: Advertisement | Words: 1061 | Page: 3 | Tags: none
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I looked at the wills of Catherine Hardy (nee Rogers, later Pavior) (1834) and her aunt Anne Chambers. Catherine mentions “sums of money due from the executors of her aunt Anne Chambers’ will”. Anne (who was clearly a wealthy woman) doesn’t mention any family members by name in her 1806 will.
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This may have been answered in an earlier thread - sorry.
It appears that there was a Rogers family connection with Kidwelly, Carmarthenshire.
An Elizabeth Rogers died in the parish in 1764. The burial is on FindMyPast, apparently with an image. I don’t have a sub, but has this death been discounted?
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I think she probably died later on, otherwise Joseph would have remarried sooner? The one who died in 1777 looks more promising.
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Yes, I absolutely agree with your logic - but it’s the fact that it’s the Rogers home parish that caught my attention.
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I also agree with your logic, but maybe St Martin's of Laugharne was a more appropriate church for wealthy families?
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Yes - I wonder if there has been a survey of the monumental inscriptions inside St Martin’s at Laugharne?
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Let's find out. ;D
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On Googlebooks it is possible to search 'The Gentlemen's magazine and historical chronicle'. Obituaries are often mentioned, I shall take a browse ;D
also here
https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=gentlemans
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There is mention of him being in Camarthen, Wales in 1777, but I loose him after that until 1784 and his second marriage at Guildhall, London,,,,, perhaps he was in Camarthen longer? I shall try there ::)
Hi Pete,
Could you post the link to the mention of Camarthen again please?
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Joseph Rogers was advertising his house in Swafield
Published: Saturday 30 March 1776
Newspaper: Norfolk Chronicle
Also in the 6 April edition
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this is the link:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D1PQ-DKJ?view=fullText&keywords=Joseph%20Rogers&lang=en&groupId=
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the link to the mention of Camarthen again please?
Another one from 1777
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6L6Q-YGP?view=fullText&keywords=Kidwell&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-V2F
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Thanks Pete and Jonwarrn
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This one from July 1777 has two witnesses from Carmathen
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6X1W-CHQ?view=fullText&keywords=Rogers%2CCarmarthen&lang=en&groupId=M9S7-NX3
There seems to be a flurry of activity around this time, so perhaps something had happened, I guess the death of Elizabeth is a possible reason.
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Harmer Rogers (presumably Joseph’s son) baptised a daughter Diana Ann in Kidwelly in 1779. There’s an earlier baptism in Swansea 1776 and a 1779 burial in Kidwelly. Ties in with the 1777 manor records.
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Great find!
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indeed a good find!!!
It seems that son Harmer Rogers c1753 and wife Elizabeth Quintin (married 28-10-1771) follow parents to Carmathenshire,,,,, curious
This also narrows it down to the town of Kidwelly which is just across the bay from Laugharne. By road 23 miles and as the crow flies 5 miles away.
Its getting very interesting :)
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The Will of Mary Coney, widow, mentioned her son in law Henry Rippingall of Aylsham and a spinster Hannah Portland of Norwich.
Fyrmin Lawes married Margaret Portland in Heigham in 1569 and are probably ancestors of Hannah Lawes, Henry's first wife.
No idea who Mary Coney was though. Hannah's mother after a second marriage?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-P95T-N
I can't find Hannah Lawes anywhere but Mary Coney apparently had a daughter called Hannah in 1668 in Aylsham (no father listed).
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/6844f0028655745405edc3f7/hannah-coney-baptism-norfolk-aylsham-1668-07-31?locale=en
Father Joseph (or Jospeh) Coney
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DW19-SNC?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AVNN1-7MC&action=view&cc=1416598&lang=en&groupId=M9SS-1T3
Mary Lawes was the granddaughter of Thomas Lawes (Lawse) of Heigham, so she was a Lawes after all, but I don't know if Hannah Coney became Hannah Lawes after Joseph's death, which apparently happened before she was born, in 1667.
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Yes, I think the source is correct.
Henry Rippingall’s will (1717) mentions small bequests to brothers Bartholomew and Cyprian (when he reaches the age of 21) and sisters Hannah and Ellen (?)
The bulk of his estate (freehold and copyhold) is left to his friend Thomas Last of Aylsham.
Lli1133, where is this will available? Does it mention Buxton, the village?
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Henry Rippingall’s will (1717)
is on FamilySearch, starts bottom left (number 38)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C398-89BQ-X
Does it mention Buxton, the village?
It does.
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Thanks, jonwarm :)
He is mentioned in the 1714 Norfolk voters list living in Buxton. I'm trying to find Henry Rippingall junior, born c. 1690.
This book confirms that Henry Rippingall, the Aylsham attorney, had two children, and that they could have been fathered by Christopher Layer :o ;D
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Norfolk_Antiquarian_Miscellany/uUIuAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22rippingall%22+%22aylsham%22&pg=RA1-PA64&printsec=frontcover
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One Elizabeth Rogers buried at St Martin's Laugharne Carmarthenshire.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5e810c2ff493fd6c50ef7806/elizabeth-rogers-burial-carmarthenshire-laugharne-1777-03-27?locale=en
For reference.
The details from the Camarthenshire burials images mean we can discount those mentioned earlier in the thread apart from
Elizabeth Rogers bur Lagharne 27 Mar 1777 - image doesn’t give any other details (and some of the other burials on the page do mention if the burial is of someone from outside the parish)
In the process of trying to trace her husband Joseph forward to his second marriage in 1784, where he is of St Dunstall in the West, this possibility came up:
Elizabeth Rogers bur St Bride, City of London bur 21 Jul 1782 age 52. The age is not quite right (Elizabeth was bapt 1733) but St Bride adjoins St Dunstan parish, is further along Fleet Street and was quite a fashionable church in this period.
Neither of these burials specify ‘Mrs.’.
Could Elizabeth have had a non-conformist burial? Elizabeth, their first child, was baptised in a non-conformist (congregational) church in Norwich.
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Harmer Rogers (presumably Joseph’s son) baptised a daughter Diana Ann in Kidwelly in 1779. There’s an earlier baptism in Swansea 1776 and a 1779 burial in Kidwelly. Ties in with the 1777 manor records.
For reference:
Diana Ann b Swansea was buried in Kidwelly 7 April 1779, and Harmer’s second daughter Diana Ann was baptised there 26 December 1779.
Diana Harmer was Joseph Rogers’ benefactor. Her 1771 will leaves all the Harmer lands around Swafield, Knapton etc. to Joseph. So although we started by assuming the connection was between John Harmer surgeon of Norwich and Joseph Rogers, it may be the connection between the two families predates that.
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Thanks, jonwarm :)
He is mentioned in the 1714 Norfolk voters list living in Buxton. I'm trying to find Henry Rippingall junior, born c. 1690.
This book confirms that Henry Rippingall, the Aylsham attorney, had two children, and that they could have been fathered by Christopher Layer :o ;D
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Norfolk_Antiquarian_Miscellany/uUIuAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22rippingall%22+%22aylsham%22&pg=RA1-PA64&printsec=frontcover
Great find! Have been trying to read the rest of the page to get the context of the remark.
Its really turning into an interesting story ::)
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For reference
https://archive.org/details/someaccountofpar01eade/page/16/mode/2up?q=Norwich+rogers+surgeon+eade
In 1768 the surgeon Joseph Rogers was one of three District Medical Officers for the parishes of the city of Norwich. If he had this responsibility, why would he and his son Harmer choose to move their families to Wales? Kidwelly was quite prosperous at the time but it doesn’t appear to have a big ‘pull’ factor. Perhaps something happened to push them out of Norfolk?
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I did find a document on Google search that Henry Rippingall of Aylsham took on Christopher Layer as his apprentice. But this document has more info on him. A very prominent figure in the Aylsham area at the time. Scroll down to Page 16 for info on Christopher Layer.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol6.1.pdf
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I did find a document on Google search that Henry Rippingall of Aylsham took on Christopher Layer as his apprentice. But this document has more info on him. A very prominent figure in the Aylsham area at the time. Scroll down to Page 16 for info on Christopher Layer.
https://aylshamhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Vol6.1.pdf
Christopher's demise was absolutely tragic. :'(
He actually had 3 daughters and not two as this doc says.
His eldest daughter Anna or Nanny (b. 1710, Tuttington, Norfolk) was sent to be educated in France under the care of General Dillon’s wife and Lady Lidcott, before her father's arrest.
Elizabeth (b. 1712, Aylsham, Norfolk) was his heir at the age of 14.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LL3-MK2?view=fullText&keywords=Elizabeth%20Layer&lang=en&groupId=
The third daughter Mary (Maria) Clementina was born in London in 1721 and died there aged 2 the same year her father was executed at Tyburn. She was named after James Francis Edward Stuart's wife Maria Clementina Sobieska, they were her godparents.
See the book The Atterbury Plot by Eveline Cruickshanks and Howard Erskine-Hill.
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Harmer Rogers (presumably Joseph’s son) baptised a daughter Diana Ann in Kidwelly in 1779. There’s an earlier baptism in Swansea 1776 and a 1779 burial in Kidwelly. Ties in with the 1777 manor records.
For reference:
Diana Ann b Swansea was buried in Kidwelly 7 April 1779, and Harmer’s second daughter Diana Ann was baptised there 26 December 1779.
Diana Harmer was Joseph Rogers’ benefactor. Her 1771 will leaves all the Harmer lands around Swafield, Knapton etc. to Joseph. So although we started by assuming the connection was between John Harmer surgeon of Norwich and Joseph Rogers, it may be the connection between the two families predates that.
That is interesting. What was the relationship between John Harmer MD and Diana Harmer? I have found her tree on FamilySearch but there is no mention of John.
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This book confirms that Henry Rippingall, the Aylsham attorney, had two children, and that they could have been fathered by Christopher Layer
Great find! Have been trying to read the rest of the page to get the context of the remark.
Its really turning into an interesting story ::)
Added: Here’s the link to the full page through Internet Archive
https://archive.org/details/norfolkantiquar00ryegoog/page/n278/mode/2up?q=Aylsham
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What was the relationship between John Harmer MD and Diana Harmer? I have found her tree on FamilySearch but there is no mention of John.
Diana was the youngest daughter of William Harmer of Swafield (d 1710). His will mentions a brother John (could he still have been practising in the 1740s? The Shotesham website suggests he worked in the first half of the 18th century). So John Harmer MD was probably either Diana’s uncle or her cousin.
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Interesting read, and that they had a quarrel and Christopher's parting words were that he said he was the father of Rippingall's children. Leaving Aylsham with a bang, but of course he may have just said that to put the doubt into Henry's mind and in the heat of the moment. We will probably never know for sure anyway.
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Could Elizabeth have had a non-conformist burial? Elizabeth, their first child, was baptised in a non-conformist (congregational) church in Norwich.
Maybe their first child Elizabeth was baptised in a non-conformist church in Norwich on 19 May 1751 because 18 year-old Elizabeth was probably pregnant when they married in London on 16 August 1750. was still a minor?
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Can someone post this newspaper clipping?
ABOUT PEOPLE
... records the transfer by sale of manorial rights at Gimingham and Trimingham from the Rippingalls to the Pastons. In 1701, Henry Rippingall was buried in the south aisle of Aylsham Church, and within the succeeding five and twenty years we find the family at ...
Published: Saturday 13 January 1906
Newspaper: Norwich Argus
County: Norfolk, England
Type: Article | Words: 1346 | Page: 1
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I shall upload the clipping later but the transcript is as follows for the 2nd paragraph. It concerns an FTS Rippingall who is contesting North Norfolk in the Unionist interests, and who lives at Langham Manor Cottage near Blakeney. The article mentions a Captain Maryatt who lived there and died in 1846. I shall upload the first paragraph as well but for now the 2nd paragraph:-
The Rippingall family have been established in Norfolk for centuries. The earliest records describe them as being of Cobholm Island on the Suffolk side of the river to Yarmouth. They were in Suffolk inbetween 1561 and 1612 but an old deed records the transfer by sale of manorial rights at Gimmingham and Trimmingham from the Rippingalls to the Pastons. In 1701, Henry Rippingall was buried in the south aisle of Aylsham Church, and within the succeeding five and twenty years we find the family at Langham, the property coming to them through the marriage of Thomas Rippingall with the only daughter and heiress of Stephen Frost.
The Rev. Stephen Frost Rippingall left the manor cottage to the gentleman who is now the Unionist candidate for North Norfolk. Mr Rippingall is a good country gentleman, one who has performed his fair quota of public service as magistrate, chairman of guardians, county councillor and other capacities. For a year or two he was Lieutenant in the Carabineers and after leaving, went on a tour to Spain where he had the exciting experience of being in St. Sebastain's when the Carlists besieged the place.
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Thank you, coombs, much appreciated :) Maybe there's no need to upload the image.
This infomation is very interesting. I wonder if this Thomas Ripingail (I read his signature as Ripnigall) is one of the Rippingalls from Suffolk mentioned in the article?
Will of Thomas Ripingail, Husbandman of Great Thurlow, Suffolk
Reference: PROB 11/126/493
Description: Will of Thomas Ripingail, Husbandman of Great Thurlow, Suffolk
Date: 21 November 1615
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D907146
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On Reply #33 I have mentioned Christopher Rippingall (Rippingale) who married Jernigan (many variations: Jernegan, Jerninghan, Fernigan, Ferninghan) and had at least 5 children, including Henry baptised in Burlingham St Edmund in 1661.
I think he could be the Christopher Ripingall mentioned in this document
Possession of tenements in Norwich, Norfolk.
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/C78_1670
Link to the document image http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT7/C78/C78no691/IMG_0227.JPG
A John Ripingall of Ryburgh Magna (1587-1588) and wife Agnes are mentioned on page 143
https://issuu.com/tcrs/docs/volume71
The pedigree of John Ripingall of Saint Botolph Without Bishopsgate (c. 1563-4) is mentioned on page 104
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/12023901/surtees-society
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Rippingall has several variants so if we try more variants on the search engines on FindMyPast and FamilySearch etc, we may uncover more info on the family seeing as they were quite notable. I guess the surname originates from a "ripping gale" around the time surnames became fixed. I have found Rippingales in Foulness Essex in the 1780s, as I have ancestors from there but no known connection to me, I wonder if they are connected to the Rippingall's of Norfolk/Suffolk.
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Trying to find and prove the demise of Elizabeth has been driving me crazy :P
there are many possibilities, the Elizabeth Rogers death in 1777 at Laugharne, Carmathenshire is a big coincidence.
I have narrowed down the possibilities in Norfolk down to 3 candidates illiminating: married to another mans name, infants, widows and burials whereby the age is not correct, unfortunately the place of burial each time is not encouraging:
i. buried 15-09-1764 Gissing
ii. buried 09-07-1766 Weasenham
iii. buried 06-09-1773 Frettenham
The list of Elizabeth Rogers' buried in London is just too long. The Elizabeth buried 21-07-1782 @ St. Brides suggested by Ili1133 is a nice possibility being 2 years before the second marriage of Joseph but there are other such burials listed in the London area.
@ Ili1133 Indeed a non conformist burial is also an option.
The facts give us Joseph and Elizabeth living in Norfolk born (and bred?) although I am still unsure as to Joseph being born London or Norfolk ??? For some reason they move to Wales (in 1777 their eldest child would be 17) with an Elizabeth Rogers being conveniently buried in 1777 (did they move to Wales for health reasons)
After 1777 Joseph goes dark until he pops up again in Londen for his second marriage. As Ili1133 mentions, the answer could lie in Josephs whereabouts in this period?
Oh well, ramble over, back to the drawing board ::)
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I think we agreed that Joseph (or the likeliest candidate) was baptised in London, and his parents married there.
I did wonder if there might have been some Rogers family connection that lured him to Kidwelly, but there is the health factor you mentioned. Have you tried to read up on Kidwelly, see what was going on there at the time?
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yes indeed, the likeliest candidate, but as always, difficult to prove for certain. Sorry for my lack of conviction on this, but on previous occasions, using the same methods and being 100% certain,,, I have been proven wrong in the past. I do intend to readress this at some point using methods I have learned from roots-chat friends such as yourself.
I havent read up on Kidwelly as of yet and do find it curious that another Elizabeth Rogers was buried at the same place a year earlier in 1776, so a good point you make with regard to a Rogers family connection somewhere. When I return home, I shall look at all Rogers trees I can find in that area to search for a connection,,,, thanks for that idea :)
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Understand your frustration!
Regarding Kidwelly, there’s a history of Kidwelly website which mentions that there was a Rogers family driving the tin mining industry there in the same period. However they sound like a local family from the county town of Carmarthen who share a relatively common surname.
http://www.kidwellyhistory.co.uk/Industry/TinWorks.htm
I skimmed some of the articles but couldn’t spot any professional or entrepreneurial reason Joseph and Harmer would have been attracted to move to the area around 1776. Just a correction - his son Harmer (aka John?) was about 23 and presumably already working in the medical profession, so they may have been in partnership.
It’s a good idea to try to ‘disprove’ the Elizabeth Rogers 1777 Laugharne death hypothesis.
Agree with you about the Norfolk deaths. She could have been visiting a family member somewhere outside the county (her sister was in Suffolk, for example). Unfortunately there are gaps in the newspaper archives over the period - in particular some of the Norfolk Gazette. Even if Elizabeth’s death was in the paper, the announcement may not have survived.
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Minutes of Norfolk and Norwich Hospital 13 Jan 1773
“Mr Rogers resigned his appointment of Surgeon to the Hospital on account of ill-health (2 years’ service)”
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Minutes of Norfolk and Norwich Hospital 13 Jan 1773
“Mr Rogers resigned his appointment of Surgeon to the Hospital on account of ill-health (2 years’ service)”
Now that is a really nice find!
In 1773 most of the children would have been in their teens or in their early 20's, curiously no mention of wife Elizabeth. Joseph thus retires as Surgeon and presumably regains his health to start practising law in 1775 (at least I am assuming he becomes some kind of lawyer from the many mentions/documents on Family search?)
incidently I came across this document below (sorry if it has already been noted) It does mention his wife Elizabeth many times, so I intend to search as many documents I can find to see if there is some kind of pattern with this that the mention of his wife suddenly stops ,,,, who knows ::)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS62-7QHX?view=fullText&keywords=Joseph%20Rogers%2CRogers%2CJoseph%2CSurgeon&lang=nl&groupId=
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I don’t think we’ve seen any evidence that Joseph was working after 1773. All the legal references (about the land he inherited) mention attorneys appointed to act on his behalf. He doesn’t appear in person.
So your idea about health is a good one. It sounds as if Joseph (with or without Elizabeth) accompanied his son Harmer to Wales so forget the partnership hypothesis. Doesn’t add anything to finding Elizabeth :-\
What will make a difference with these references to Elizabeth is what the source is for the documents. If they’re related to inheritance through her family (Rippingale/Havett), then she’ll probably be mentioned as Joseph’s wife. If they’re related to Joseph’s inheritance from the Harmers, she may not be included.