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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: goldie61 on Saturday 20 September 25 09:00 BST (UK)
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This is the Marriage contract of Pierre Raoul and Magdalaine de La Rue 19th Sept 1550 from Rodiere.
Archives Départementales de Dainville - Montreuil (Pas-de-Calais, France) - Notarial Records - MALINGRE | 1550 - 1553
(Sorry I can't do a hyperlink to the page).
It spreads over two pages. Pges 18 and 19 out of 59 on this film.
Sorry it's a bit hazy, but the film is like this.
I don't need it all transcribing or translating thanks.
There are two men towards the end of it I am interested in, but need some help interpreting their part in this.
This is obvioulsy a high status marriage. The land, buildings and goods itemised for the groom are large.
Interestingly that word 'amaze' crops up again.
He has 'a manoir amaze'.
The bride also brings a great deal of stuff, and a considerale amount of money.
From the 4th line down on the second page:
“Sy(?) est encore de? à ladite Mag-
dalaine par Jehan Caron 40# 3s 4d faisant la 4eme partie de
8xx# 13s 8d = 56 (?)s 3d par Asrien de Selecque; id(em) par
le fils de Porrus de Senlecque - …….
Here are a dew questions about this.
1. What does that little word ‘Sy’ mean?
2. Is the name of the second Senlecque man ‘Porrus’?
3. Is the amount for Adrien 56? (not sure of that first numeral)
4. I read it that both Adrien and Porrus, (or at least his son), are giving this amount of money as part of the bride’s dowry?
5. Can you make out any relationship between Adrien and Porrus, or is it referring to yet another Senlecque man, a son, (not named) of Porrus?
6. I can’t see any relationship between these Senlecque men and the bride or groom.
Can one assume there must be some family relationship somewhere along the line if they are providing her with some money?
Also 40# (livre) isn’t a ‘4th’ of 800 in my calculations ? - the amount Jehan Caron is giving her.
Thanks for any insights!
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This is what I read
“Sy est encore deub à ladite Mag-
dalaine par Jehan Caron 40# 3s 4d faisant la 4ieme partie de
160# 13s 8d; = 56s 3d par Adrien de Sanlecque; id(em) par
le filz de Porrus de Sanlecque - …….
Sy= S'y (si y): if there is/ are
correction: I think you should understand it as 'there is', without the conditional 'if'
deub= dû (past participle of the verb 'devoir'): to be paid (or returned) to
8xx: 160 (8 x 20). This is the vigesimal counting system.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=864140.msg7339960#msg7339960
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Here are a few questions about this.
1. What does that little word ‘Sy’ mean? See previous post
2. Is the name of the second Senlecque man ‘Porrus’? That's what I read too
3. Is the amount for Adrien 56? (not sure of that first numeral) Yes
4. I read it that both Adrien and Porrus, (or at least his son), are giving this amount of money as part of the bride’s dowry? Correct
5. Can you make out any relationship between Adrien and Porrus, or is it referring to yet another Senlecque man, a son, (not named) of Porrus? No relationship between Adrien & Porrus (or his son) is obvious from what's been written
6. I can’t see any relationship between these Senlecque men and the bride or groom.
Can one assume there must be some family relationship somewhere along the line if they are providing her with some money? Some sort of family relationship seems plausible, but one can't rule out the reason to be strictly business.
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Just a wee note, the # should actually be ₶, lt with the line from the t crossing the l, as it stands for livres tournois. Further divided into sous (or sols) and deniers. Takes me back to when I was younger and we still had the duodecimal system of £sd.
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link (I hope it works for all)
https://nl.geneanet.org/registers/view/309958/18?
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Just a wee note, the # should actually be ₶, lt with the line from the t crossing the l, as it stands for livres tournois. Further divided into sous (or sols) and deniers. Takes me back to when I was younger and we still had the duodecimal system of £sd.
# actually stands for livres (without tournoiz). You can see this on page 18 (amount is given as 20# tz)
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Fair enough, Zefiro!
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Sy= S'y (si y): if there is/ are
correction: I think you should understand it as 'there is', without the conditional 'if'
Not being completely satisfied with the above explanation, I've investigated this further.
In this entry there are 3 versions of the same words used (2 on page 18):
S il luy
S yl luy
Sy
I think it's an archaic form of "iceluy", meaning 'the one mentioned before'.